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Ticket While Using AUTO-PILOT " Failure To Stay In Lane" "Reckless"

Discussion in 'Tesla, Inc.' started by RaceDeck, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. iadbound

    iadbound Member

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    The problems of beta software. :wink: I have noticed that Autopilot has difficulty taking a longer travel line and smoothing out the ride in curves. Instead, it seems to try much too hard to stay precisely in the middle of the lane thereby creating a herky-jerky feeling over short distances -- much like a new driver might do when trying to look 30 feet in front of them instead of far ahead. I wouldn't surprise me if it caught a police officer's attention. Hopefully, the system will continue to improve and we won't have more incidents like the one the OP experienced.
     
  2. ZsoZso

    ZsoZso Active Member

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    It will be interesting to see the final outcome. Clearly, the cop was trying to "justify" himself by giving a speeding ticket, because he realized other charges (reckless driving, not keeping lane) would not stick. As is the case has nothing to do with autopilot officially, so we may have to wait for another case to see how autopilot stands up in court.
     
  3. LetsGoFast

    LetsGoFast Active Member

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    If the car remained within the actual lane lines, just moved about abrubtly/erratically within the lane, there is no way a judge would convict you of careless/reckless driving. The OP hasn't confirmed that, unfortunately. I've literally never seen a ticket for 3mph over in a 70mph zone. I'm thinking most judges would kick that and mock the officer if it happened. I'll ask someone who is in traffic court more.
     
  4. WMAC

    WMAC Member

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    Just fight it, the speed detection equipment variable vs. your speed variable should put you within an acceptable range of speed.
     
  5. Zextraterrestrial

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    which is why they should never ticket you in the first place for that little over the limit
    seems he has a problem w/Tesla's in general. if he was just checking on the swerving then there shouldn't have been a citation

    what speed was the majority of traffic doing?
     
  6. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    (OP: you don't have to answer this). Sometimes ticketing officers will drop 5mph or 10mph from a ticket when they write it up. I don't know if they then can say at a court hearing "Defendant was not going 73mph but {78/83} mph - I was giving him a break." Has anyone experience/insight as to this situation?
     
  7. kirkbauer

    kirkbauer Member

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    I'll admit that sometimes I worry that AutoPilot will make me appear to be impaired :)

    Sorry this happened to you, fight it and post back!

    Last ticket I fought I got a good lawyer for a flat $500 fee and it was worth it.
     
  8. Electric1

    Electric1 Member

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    two comments:

    1) The data collection should be able to give you your speed if they are willing to give it to you and you ask in proximity to the event

    2) I noticed semis getting really nervous, avoided passing and blew their air horns obnoxiously when doing so while I was driving an autopilot S one evening on a curvy 4 lane (I 80 in Pa)
     
  9. Config

    Config Member

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    I would fight it too. I can't believe he wrote you up a ticket for speeding @73 mph. People do 80 mph all the time on I-15 and I-215 (I'm guilty as well) and that's just how the flow of traffic goes. Of the 2 offenses he knew he could not make the 'using auto-pilot' or in his words 'reckless driving' because you never swerved into the other lanes. He obviously thought you were texting since that indeed is an offense.
     
  10. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    73 in a 70? Fight it and question the reliability of his speed measurement. A less than 5% percent error on speed is not a safety issue IMO. Don't even talk about AP. You'll lose if you bring it up. This is quickly becoming a hot topic.

    I have been worried about the wandering in the lane and if I would get pulled over, perfectly sober. Your experience has confirmed my fears. I think it will get worse until law enforcement is able to understand the risks of this new tech. I can't blame them at all. Though I think the ticket is pretty damn lame.
     
  11. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    I don't understand. He gave you a ticket for speeding. You just publicly admitted to speeding. You still insist to fight this in court? Maybe I am misunderstanding how the American traffic courts work : what is your defense strategy? Is there an official grace margin that you can go over the limit and not get a ticket?
     
  12. Dave85D

    Dave85D Member

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    Should have offered him a test drive. :0
     
  13. WMAC

    WMAC Member

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    It's understood that drivers can do ~ 5 mph over and not worry. There's a bit of margin for error due to calibration of vehicles' speedo and LEO equipment.
     
  14. theschnell

    theschnell Member

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    This is interesting. I think it would have been better if the officer gave a ticket for reckless driving. That's why he pulled you over, so he should either give a ticket for that or not give a ticket for that. Giving a ticket for speeding makes no sense.

    A fight in traffic court over reckless driving would be very interesting. I would imagine a big differentiator in that case would be whether or not you had a hand on the wheel. If you did, you would have a high likelihood of winning the case, I would think. If not, chances of winning would decrease dramatically.

    Giving a ticket for speeding was dumb and should be fought. The fact that the officer decided not to cite you for reckless driving is his choice and should be irrelevant in court. Whether it will be irrelevant depends on the judge, but it should be irrelevant.
     
  15. blanche

    blanche Member

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    While I feel some sympathy for the OP, the argument by the defendant will be thrown out by the judge in 5 minutes. Less if the judge is in a cranky mood.

    The OP isn't denying that he was speeding, and hence the speeding ticket will stand (ticket + court costs). Yes, most people in America safely drive 5mph over the speed limit but yes, you can also get a ticket for doing so depending on how cranky the officer is. The ticket will always be upheld in court.

    Also, regardless of the technology deployed, the car was weaving enough for the officer to ask if the driver was drinking. Control of the car is always the drivers responsibility (and even Tesla parrots this line in its instructions). Blaming the car for driving itself erratically is legally not a defensible case.

    So yeah, I sympathize over this needless ticket as I'm sure there are plenty of other drivers on the road who are driving far more recklessly, but the officer was well and clear within the law to write the tickets.
     
  16. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX;S90D;XP100D;3LR

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    Wait, you're saying that if on a highway Autosteer makes a steering adjustment that seems erratic to an observing officer and that causes the driver to take control to keep the car in its lane, the officer is justified in writing a ticket for erratic driving? That seems patently unjustifiable: Autosteer is being used as labeled, the driver acts responsibly by taking control, and yet the end result is a citation?

    I would say that this scenario (minus the citation) happens regularly when using Autosteer: at some point, I almost always have to take over when Autosteer reaches its limits. The fact that I am alert and ready to do so when that time comes does not constitute reckless or erratic behavior on my part.
     
  17. kirkbauer

    kirkbauer Member

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    Not here in GA: unless it is a state trooper they can't ticket you for anything less than 9mph over.
     
  18. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    Autosteer might be erratic enough for a police officer to decide to pull you over to check for impaired driving, distracted driving, etc.

    If no impairment of distracted driving was found, I would think that if Autosteer kept you in your lane, the officer would have a very difficult time making his case.

    I say this having used Autosteer and knowing that it allows the car to "wander" a little within the lane you are occupying...in my experience, if Autosteer is used properly, there is no way that a prudent person could interpret this this wandering as reckless or dangerous.

    Tesla isn't currently, and certainly won't be alone in the Autosteer functionality of their vehicles moving forward...the police can't pull over everyone, so they will eventually have to learn how to deal with vehicles "wandering" within their lane.
     
  19. MichFin

    MichFin Member

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    I've seen before in a ticket that was written for 5 MPH over in the notes it says clocked at 12 MPH over. Otherwise he would be lying on an official document and it would be thrown out in court.
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    If the police officer doesn't show up to the court date, which is actually fairly common as they are busy people, then it will get tossed.
     

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