minutes, just like it was designed to do? I don't SC much so not really a big concern to me
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Time for a new HV Battery
- Thread starter NV Ray
- Start date
Electric700
Active Member
I don't think you need to pay $14k. It makes sense to start with asking for a lower-cost repair option from Tesla. These third-party companies can help also with main battery repairs, in the $5k range:
www.057tech.com (Offers a main battery warranty)
www.recell-ev.com
dark cloud
Active Member
Sorry for the delay in answering -- this is the second time I'm doing so since the first answer seems to have disappeared into the ether (sigh). As soon as we received the car back from Re/Cell, we took a 5-day round trip from Los Angeles to Vegas, SuperCharging along the way. Our display always showed that our cost to charge was $0.00. We stayed within the 80/20 rule as much as possible. We gained around 100 miles each time and it took around 30-40 minutes to get to 80%, using 150 kW or 250 kW charging stations. This charge time is about what our original 2013 P85 battery had taken for similar charges over the past couple of years. Hope this helps!
does the 80/20 rule really apply on road trips? though it didn't since you're charging so quickly from say 5% to 20% at that point
I think the assumption is that the stress and/or heat is highest when the battery is charging fastest, and when the battery is reaching its upper limit. Most of us with nerfed batteries like to Supercharge around the 5%-70% to maximize our time. I'm sure the advice given is try to reduce as many potential issues as possible.
When Re/Cell finished swapping out our battery pack, they sent us a very helpful email with 'generic' tips such as the 80/20 rule. Their final paragraph however seemed to be directed more to our specific case. It said:
"Never charge above 80% when Supercharging. And while convenient and great for day trips or long-distance travel, use Supercharging sparingly, and only when going on day trips or long-distance travel. A steady Supercharging diet creates excess heat inside the battery pack and will almost certainly damage your battery pack - especially the battery packs in early model Tesla’s. In fact, the malfunctioning modules in your battery pack showed long-term signs of overheating and were quite likely why it eventually failed."
[FYI, we had one failed module and another about to fail, apparently.]
I know there were times while Supercharging that our car's compressor fan was working so hard it sounded like the car was about to explode (even on 70-degree days) so I can verify it must have been overheating. Despite always being set to Day Use (80%) while trickle-charging in our garage at home on a 110v plug, sometimes the compressor fan would be working hard.
I figure supercharging more frequently on long trips before dipping below 20% and stopping at 80-85% is a small price to pay over having another failed battery module/pack, even if it is on warranty now for another 4 years / 50K miles <wink>. Granted, we're lucky there are now so many Superchargers on the long-distance routes we tend to take to make these multiple stops possible.
juliusa
Active Member
Those are good generic tips. My original pack lasted 217k miles with a lot of supercharging, running down to 2% and infrequent full charges.
My reman pack from Tesla lasted 57k miles rarely going below 20% or over 80%.
My reman pack from Tesla lasted 57k miles rarely going below 20% or over 80%.
juliusa
Active Member
I should add that for the first few years the taper was different for my 2013 S85 - battery charged about 20kW higher throughout the taper curve. Tesla later scaled back the charging rate, probably because they were frying batteries. "Chargegate" if anyone remembers.
Electric700
Active Member
Error. Please rephrase your query.
No, actually we should have the main battery repair information as a sticky thread because I have reposted it quite a few times...some people may be new members and have not seen it. I will request that.
First off, thanks @Tessie'sMom for the great shoutouts and glad that your trip to Las Vegas went so well!
As @tes-s suggests, the 80-20 guidance we provide is really about maintaining overall battery hygiene - aiming to keep your overall usage within those two bookends and avoiding charge levels that regularly hover around 50%. Obviously, there's no harm in going below 20% -- Tesla's own Supercharging navigator generally lands you with between 15-20% by the time you stop to recharge. The key is about focusing on overall charging behavior.
For reference, here's the complete set of guidelines that we provide to ALL our customers. Hardly controversial, basically the same that Tesla provides, simply with the added emphasis that these guidelines are even more important on the earlier Tesla models.
Charging Guidelines
Some helpful tips on how to maintain the longevity of your battery pack
Focus on Percentage Not Miles
If it isn't already, set your Display to show remaining battery capacity in Percent, not Miles. Focusing on percentage reinforces proper charging behavior and the '80-20 Rule' - that is, keep your battery between 80% - 20% as much as possible.
In fact, the range estimation in the Trip Navigator is far more accurate than the Range Indicator in the driver-side Instrument Cluster, since the Trip Navigator uses real-world road conditions and your actual driving behavior to calculate the remaining range needed for your trip - it is almost always within a few percent of your final destination.
Supercharging Your Model S
Never charge above 80% when Supercharging. And while convenient and great for day trips or long-distance travel, use Supercharging sparingly, and only when going on day trips or long-distance travel. A steady Supercharging diet creates excess heat inside the battery pack and will almost certainly damage your battery pack and affect its balance - especially the battery packs in early model Tesla’s.
As @tes-s suggests, the 80-20 guidance we provide is really about maintaining overall battery hygiene - aiming to keep your overall usage within those two bookends and avoiding charge levels that regularly hover around 50%. Obviously, there's no harm in going below 20% -- Tesla's own Supercharging navigator generally lands you with between 15-20% by the time you stop to recharge. The key is about focusing on overall charging behavior.
For reference, here's the complete set of guidelines that we provide to ALL our customers. Hardly controversial, basically the same that Tesla provides, simply with the added emphasis that these guidelines are even more important on the earlier Tesla models.
Charging Guidelines
Some helpful tips on how to maintain the longevity of your battery pack
- For day-to-day use, set the charge level to 80% - 90%, that will be more than plenty for your daily needs.
- Avoid charging your Model S greater than 90% and only charge to 100% for day trips.
- Avoid leaving your battery below 30% - 40% for long periods of time. Keep it topped up regularly, preferably daily.
Focus on Percentage Not Miles
If it isn't already, set your Display to show remaining battery capacity in Percent, not Miles. Focusing on percentage reinforces proper charging behavior and the '80-20 Rule' - that is, keep your battery between 80% - 20% as much as possible.
In fact, the range estimation in the Trip Navigator is far more accurate than the Range Indicator in the driver-side Instrument Cluster, since the Trip Navigator uses real-world road conditions and your actual driving behavior to calculate the remaining range needed for your trip - it is almost always within a few percent of your final destination.
Supercharging Your Model S
Never charge above 80% when Supercharging. And while convenient and great for day trips or long-distance travel, use Supercharging sparingly, and only when going on day trips or long-distance travel. A steady Supercharging diet creates excess heat inside the battery pack and will almost certainly damage your battery pack and affect its balance - especially the battery packs in early model Tesla’s.
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"...avoiding charge levels that regularly hover around 50%" Hi thanks for the informative post, but this part confused me? I thought you're supposed to have it charge to 50% (and that would be the ideal %)
your minimum charge level really should be 80%. and keep it topped up frequently. (not fanatically, but frequently. if it’s convenient to top it up in the evening, then great. convenience should be your guide here).
this will ensure you’re battery remains adequately charged and properly balanced.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
Interesting. I followed Elon's advice he tweeted out years ago, stored the car at 50-62%, sometimes for months on end.
As soon as I got back from travel, next time I charged to 70% the calibration picked up the 2-3 miles I "lost"
When I sold it, had one of the highest range of any 85 pack on Teslafi, 263 RM and 76.5 KwH nominal per SMT, after 7.5 years and 62k miles.
I'm keeping my current car at 55%.
aerodyne
2 of 3 EV's - Defect Free!
On that car all 4 coolant pumps will run at 100% from 80% SoC down to 74% when parked, wasting energy, causing pumps to possibly fail early.
Former 85d owner...
interesting, there are so many things that i don't know about my car. Is this just when it's super charging, or any time after between 74 to 100%? it seems like in that case i should daily charge to 73%? I'm so confused
There are multiple conflicting efforts and Tesla keep on changing firmware. Seems like older battery packs is gradually getting squeezed into less useful window
A. Need to charge to some high SOC (93%) to trigger re-balancing?
B. Tesla turned on constantly battery cooling > 80% a couple of years ago for older batteries.
A+B are probably both desirable but unfortunately mutually exclusive so we get to choose one or the other. Then there are orthogonal feature reduction like reduced supercharging speeds etc.
Anyway, not saying all these efforts are not valid. But fundamentally, batteries seems to degrade > 5 years and/or some miles of use. So software is adjusted to protect them. Some goals become mutually exclusive. In general, car's operating window gradually becomes lower even without failures.
@howardc64, if needed, balancing kicks in approx 4.0V (80%, give or take)
Oftentimes lower, depending on overall balance, brick capacity, etc. #becausealgorithms
Oftentimes lower, depending on overall balance, brick capacity, etc. #becausealgorithms
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