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Time for a new HV Battery

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Update on my HV battery, 2013 MS 85, 275,000 miles. Got BMS_u029 "Charging Level Limited" message on January 17 while 160 miles from home. I limped home and started looking at options. In the meantime I continued using my car in "Leaf" mode - it would charge to 80 miles.

I decided to replace the battery rather than scrap the car. My highest priority was how long the pack would last (miles). I considered Tesla, 057 Tech, and @Recell. Gruber was too far, and I thought EG was no longer doing battery replacements.

As best I can tell, all three follow pretty much the same process of putting together packs based on similar good modules, and then swapping with your pack. Gruber seems to be different in they repair your pack by replacing cells or modules. I'm sure there are nuances, and each does it the way they think is best. Who provides better packs? Time will tell - I doubt many replacement packs have failed, and hard to draw conclusions with such a small sample size.

I quickly ruled out Tesla. My current replacement pack from them lasted 57,000 miles and they offered to do the same thing again. About 40% more expensive than the non-Tesla choices.

I communicated with 057 and recell, and ultimately decided on recell. Similar pricing, convenience of location, and I thought both were well qualified to do the work based on what others had posted. A friend had used 057 to pro-actively swap their pack and was very satisfied.

Recell could do the work right away, fixed price, and offered a warranty the same as Tesla - 4 years/50k miles. 057 was at least several weeks out, pricing dependent on condition of my battery, and no warranty - at least that was my understanding. I only had a few preliminary email exchanges with 057, so may have gotten part of it wrong.

January 27 (Friday) I signed an agreement with Recell.
January 28 (Saturday) Car carrier arrived and took my car. Recell arranged it.
February 3 (Friday) Car arrived at Recell (delayed by ice storm).
February 6 (Monday) Recell had replaced pack. Old pack diagnosis: One failed and one failing module.
February 7-9 Recell tested, conditioned, took it to a supercharger, and made sure everything was working properly.
February 9 Recell asked for payment. They had asked for no payment up to this point.
February 13 (2 days from now) I arrive San Antonio for pickup

The experience with Recell has been excellent. They respond to my emails right away, and also emailed me with progress updates and pictures. 2000 mile drive home will be a good shakedown!
Another update on my battery replacement by @Recell after driving for two weeks, 7000 miles, and a lot of supercharging.

The battery is awesome and exceeded my expectations. Still 250+ miles range, though I’ve only done a 100% charge once. Almost always keep it between 20% and 80%.

The pleasant surprise is it supercharges at 10kW higher than my old battery through the taper curve. My old battery was 242 miles at 100% before failure, and SOC+kW was around 99 in the 20% to 80% SOC range. Replacement is around 109 - 10% faster.

Of course, the real test is longevity. Stay tuned!
 
Another update on my battery replacement by @Recell after driving for two weeks, 7000 miles, and a lot of supercharging.

The battery is awesome and exceeded my expectations. Still 250+ miles range, though I’ve only done a 100% charge once. Almost always keep it between 20% and 80%.

The pleasant surprise is it supercharges at 10kW higher than my old battery through the taper curve. My old battery was 242 miles at 100% before failure, and SOC+kW was around 99 in the 20% to 80% SOC range. Replacement is around 109 - 10% faster.

Of course, the real test is longevity. Stay tuned!
Thanks for the update. What size battery did you have, and what size remanufactured replacement? How much was the bill?
 
I have a 2013 Model S 85. I had an 85 battery, and replaced with an 85 battery. @Recell prices are on their website. Recell
@tes-s "prices on website" is unsatisfactory.

@Recell do you have some policy that all of your customers are required to refer to your website on what they paid? I would think when others are providing exact Tesla quotes both you and all of us would benefit from seeing exactly what your paying customers paid.
 
@tes-s "prices on website" is unsatisfactory.

@Recell do you have some policy that all of your customers are required to refer to your website on what they paid? I would think when others are providing exact Tesla quotes both you and all of us would benefit from seeing exactly what your paying customers paid.
I went and found the prices page. Here's the link:

 
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I'm pretty sure if @Recell's customers want to post their invoices, they're more than welcome to do so. Or not! It's entirely up to that person.

Granted, I think that can create confusion down the road when prices inevitably change.

But no company should be posting customer invoices... that's just silly. Why would anyone expect that? 🤔
You're right. But why wouldn't customers post their invoices from @Recell ? Again, seeing what actually was paid would benefit all of us. That's one reason this forum exists - information sharing to benefit all.
 
I'm pretty sure if @Recell's customers want to post their invoices, they're more than welcome to do so. Or not! It's entirely up to that person.

Granted, I think that can create confusion down the road when prices inevitably change.

But no company should be posting customer invoices... that's just silly. Why would anyone expect that? 🤔
I think I speak for all of us Model S owners that have had out of warranty HV battery replacement decisions to make. Walk in our shoes for a moment.

When we get the heartbreaking news that our out of warranty HV battery needs $$$$ replacement, we immediately search for the most frugal solution based on our personal situation - from new Tesla replacement to selling our devalued MS for much less to 3rd party vendor solution to (god forbid) having some vendor reset the error message - all options.

That said, I see what @Recell has on their website and appreciate that info. But wonder what the total cost is from the paying customer nonetheless to make a better informed buying decision.
 
I have a 2013 Model S 85. I had an 85 battery, and replaced with an 85 battery. @Recell prices are on their website. Recell
I got the RC 250+ battery from them.
Following is for the benefit of current/future owners having to make out of warranty HV battery replacement decisions.

So, based on @Recell website, for the RC 250+ you paid $11,895 for a remanufactured 85 kWh HV battery. What was tax? I know they pay for shipping to them, but what was shipping in return? From their website "if your existing battery pack is less than 12 years old and has less than 150,000 miles, we offer a FREE extended warranty for up to 4 years or 50,000 miles!" What warranty did you get? Lastly, from their website "In the event of a battery pack failure, a full battery pack or hardware replacement will be provided by the nearest Recell-certified Service Center." Other than their San Antonio location where is the nearest Recell-certified Service Center?

For me, I got a new 90 kWh from my local Tesla Service Center for $15k (HV battery, taxes, labor). I ordered 85 kWh reman but 90 kWh new came in. Tesla honored $15k quote. 4 year/50k mile warranty. I estimate 90 kWh new would have been $5k more.


Screenshot 2023-03-01 085248.pngScreenshot 2023-03-01 085342.pngScreenshot 2023-03-01 085437.png
 
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I think I speak for all of us Model S owners that have had out of warranty HV battery replacement decisions to make.
I wouldn't presume that.

Walk in our shoes for a moment.
I do daily. We work with customers dealing with out of warranty battery service quite literally every day now.

I always try to put myself in the customer's shoes and just tell them what I think the right path for them is, even if that's not the same path that makes my company any money. And I feel like most people greatly appreciate and respect that.

When we get the heartbreaking news that our out of warranty HV battery needs $$$$ replacement, we immediately search for the most frugal solution based on our personal situation - from new Tesla replacement to selling our devalued MS for much less to
We try to get people the best possible options. I've even sent customers to @Recell when I feel like it makes the most sense for them... much to the surprise of the customer who is usually confused why I'd send them to a competitor. Usually when it's a customer super close to their shop and it doesn't make sense to spend on shipping even if our price might end up a little lower before shipping.

Not sure if Recell has done the same for us, but honestly doesn't matter to me. As long as they're not screwing over customers like some other places, all good by me. I've no affiliation with Recell, but they seem to be the only other company in this space legitimately doing something similar to what we do, and haven't heard anything crazy about them so far. haha. So kudos to them on that.

Recell's offerings are perfectly fine for folks who absolutely must have a fixed price for service. There's value in that, certainly. From the business side, Recell is taking on the risk associated with that offering and that's reflected in their pricing, which factors in a core return just like we do. So if their set price is $x, which assumes at least $y recoverable value from a core pack to cover costs, overhead, etc... and the core pack ends up not worth $y, then they have to eat that. If its > $y, then more profit/buffer for them in exchange for the gamble.

We definitely do things differently at 057. I'm not much of a gambler, so we have no fixed pricing on replacements w/core returns because I'm not going to assume your core pack has any value until we inspect it. (We have our extended service plans, but that's pretty much a separate thing.) So instead of a fixed price, you pay whatever the actual cost is. That may be lower or may be higher than a similar deal from Recell. We've gotten pack replacements for some folks completed for under $2k. Others have been > $10k. All depends on the condition of the core pack. We usually just do it as a "Let's get the car here and do diagnostics and go from there," type plan. We help arrange transport, etc. If you decide not to work with us on the repair/replacement, we just charge a small diagnostic fee and that's that. We'll even bring the car to the local Tesla service if desired after that, or help ship wherever.

I usually tell people to just get the car to us for a diagnostic before making a decision, especially if they're anywhere nearby (within 1000 miles or so).

I think on average we end up cheaper than Recell on pack replacements, but that's the trade-off benefit of shifting that variance to the customer instead of having to price that variability into a fixed cost like they do. I don't mean this to be an us vs Recell thing either, just pointing things out. Market does all the deciding here.

And that's all just customer preference really, since the end results are effectively the same. Good old free market competition! We're swamped, with I think almost 30 S's in the shop right now, transporters here every single day, etc... so clearly not a demand issue... and I don't even think we even have battery replacement services even listed on our website at all.

I'd have to bet Recell is probably in a similar boat on the demand side given all of the issues with earlier S's.

3rd party vendor solution to (god forbid) having some vendor reset the error message
Resetting errors without fixing the issue is stupid. Don't do it. Don't try to blow up your car.

And seriously, don't reset errors and pass the car to an unsuspecting buyer. In fact, I'm currently helping three different people with logs and technical info for court cases where a seller scammed them like this using some third party tool to temporarily clear a battery error right before selling the car without fixing anything. "I just bought this car, and a couple days later I got this error. Such bad luck!" "No, looks like it had the error for a while and someone tried to clear it right before you bought it." "Whaaaaaaat?! I got scammed???" "Yep."

So don't do that. I will help people go after you if you do, and I'll help for free, if possible, because I absolutely hate scammers like this. IANAL, so I don't know if any of these are even winnable, but I'll be damned if I don't at least try to help these folks.

That said, I see what @Recell has on their website and appreciate that info. But wonder what the total cost is from the paying customer nonetheless to make a better informed buying decision.

Like I said, if you must have fixed upfront pricing for as much as possible, I don't think you're going to get much better than Recell's offerings. Even Tesla themselves won't give you a price until they diagnose the car, so there's that. There's always other costs with these kinds of repairs. Downtime (rental car?), transport, sales tax, etc etc all things that will vary case by case. Up to you to figure that out and pick the option that works best for you.
 
I wouldn't presume that.


I do daily. We work with customers dealing with out of warranty battery service quite literally every day now.

I always try to put myself in the customer's shoes and just tell them what I think the right path for them is, even if that's not the same path that makes my company any money. And I feel like most people greatly appreciate and respect that.


We try to get people the best possible options. I've even sent customers to @Recell when I feel like it makes the most sense for them... much to the surprise of the customer who is usually confused why I'd send them to a competitor. Usually when it's a customer super close to their shop and it doesn't make sense to spend on shipping even if our price might end up a little lower before shipping.

Not sure if Recell has done the same for us, but honestly doesn't matter to me. As long as they're not screwing over customers like some other places, all good by me. I've no affiliation with Recell, but they seem to be the only other company in this space legitimately doing something similar to what we do, and haven't heard anything crazy about them so far. haha. So kudos to them on that.

Recell's offerings are perfectly fine for folks who absolutely must have a fixed price for service. There's value in that, certainly. From the business side, Recell is taking on the risk associated with that offering and that's reflected in their pricing, which factors in a core return just like we do. So if their set price is $x, which assumes at least $y recoverable value from a core pack to cover costs, overhead, etc... and the core pack ends up not worth $y, then they have to eat that. If its > $y, then more profit/buffer for them in exchange for the gamble.

We definitely do things differently at 057. I'm not much of a gambler, so we have no fixed pricing on replacements w/core returns because I'm not going to assume your core pack has any value until we inspect it. (We have our extended service plans, but that's pretty much a separate thing.) So instead of a fixed price, you pay whatever the actual cost is. That may be lower or may be higher than a similar deal from Recell. We've gotten pack replacements for some folks completed for under $2k. Others have been > $10k. All depends on the condition of the core pack. We usually just do it as a "Let's get the car here and do diagnostics and go from there," type plan. We help arrange transport, etc. If you decide not to work with us on the repair/replacement, we just charge a small diagnostic fee and that's that. We'll even bring the car to the local Tesla service if desired after that, or help ship wherever.

I usually tell people to just get the car to us for a diagnostic before making a decision, especially if they're anywhere nearby (within 1000 miles or so).

I think on average we end up cheaper than Recell on pack replacements, but that's the trade-off benefit of shifting that variance to the customer instead of having to price that variability into a fixed cost like they do. I don't mean this to be an us vs Recell thing either, just pointing things out. Market does all the deciding here.

And that's all just customer preference really, since the end results are effectively the same. Good old free market competition! We're swamped, with I think almost 30 S's in the shop right now, transporters here every single day, etc... so clearly not a demand issue... and I don't even think we even have battery replacement services even listed on our website at all.

I'd have to bet Recell is probably in a similar boat on the demand side given all of the issues with earlier S's.


Resetting errors without fixing the issue is stupid. Don't do it. Don't try to blow up your car.

And seriously, don't reset errors and pass the car to an unsuspecting buyer. In fact, I'm currently helping three different people with logs and technical info for court cases where a seller scammed them like this using some third party tool to temporarily clear a battery error right before selling the car without fixing anything. "I just bought this car, and a couple days later I got this error. Such bad luck!" "No, looks like it had the error for a while and someone tried to clear it right before you bought it." "Whaaaaaaat?! I got scammed???" "Yep."

So don't do that. I will help people go after you if you do, and I'll help for free, if possible, because I absolutely hate scammers like this. IANAL, so I don't know if any of these are even winnable, but I'll be damned if I don't at least try to help these folks.



Like I said, if you must have fixed upfront pricing for as much as possible, I don't think you're going to get much better than Recell's offerings. Even Tesla themselves won't give you a price until they diagnose the car, so there's that. There's always other costs with these kinds of repairs. Downtime (rental car?), transport, sales tax, etc etc all things that will vary case by case. Up to you to figure that out and pick the option that works best for you.
Great response, thx. Agree totally with all your comments. That's what we want to hear.

Not saying this happened to me, but wondering...my BMS_u029 came after transferring ownership via Tesla app and Factory Reset. Is there some way you could (remotely) see if previous owner did the reset option and didn't tell me? You can call me at 775.476.2912 (PST) if it's easier to talk.
 
@tes-s "prices on website" is unsatisfactory.

@Recell do you have some policy that all of your customers are required to refer to your website on what they paid? I would think when others are providing exact Tesla quotes both you and all of us would benefit from seeing exactly what your paying customers paid.
Has nothing to do with @Recell or their policies. If you want a quote from @Recell all you have to do is contact them. I post quotes and invoices from Tesla only because they do not have pricing listed, each service center prices differently, and says different things.

If someone needs a battery replaced, the only price they need to know is what THEY will pay. There were other considerations for me besides price - like timing, location, shipping. After ruling out Tesla on price and past experience, I contacted @wk057 and @Recell - then tried to make the decision I thought would work out best for me. I had full confidence in both based on my communications with them, their reputation, and a friend who had a positive experience.
 
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Has nothing to do with @Recell or their policies. If you want a quote from @Recell all you have to do is contact them. I post quotes and invoices from Tesla only because they do not have pricing listed, each service center prices differently, and says different things.

If someone needs a battery replaced, the only price they need to know is what THEY will pay. There were other considerations for me besides price - like timing, location, shipping. After ruling out Tesla on price and past experience, I contacted @wk057 and @Recell - then tried to make the decision I thought would work out best for me. I had full confidence in both based on my communications with them, their reputation, and a friend who had a positive experience.
Your're right. Glad you're happy with your decision. Hopefully this forum was beneficial.

Please consider providing your lessons learned to any future owner that will go through the same issue in the future.
 
some very quick notes:

  • We have a longstanding policy of not commenting on any of our customers business or the work done on their vehicle - that information is 1000% private and information that is entirely up to THEM to share, and which we encourage, as THEY see fit.
  • As for our website, we could not be more transparent about our pricing 🙂 We specifically call out that shipping and installation are included in our pricing. Of course, a good number of customers choose to drive their now road-ready cars home, so we do not include return shipping (but are always happy to arrange it, zero mark-up and a direct passthrough). The good news is that since we don't have to charge sales tax on services and out-of-state sales, that usually offsets the cost of any return shipping 👍
  • We have a TON of respect for the work the folks @wk057 do and we actively encourage our customers to seek them out and find the option that works best for them. We suspect that, like us, @wk057 values the importance of a 'worthy competitor', it keeps all of us sharp and agile. And that's good for Tesla owners.
 
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some very quick notes:

  • We have a longstanding policy of not commenting on any of our customers business - that is 1000% private and information entirely up to THEM to share, which we encourage, as THEY see fit.
  • As for our website, we could not be more transparent about our pricing. We specifically call out that shipping and installation are included in our pricing. Of course, a good number of customers like @tes-s choose to drive their now road-ready cars home, so we do not include return shipping. The good news is that since we don't have to charge sales tax on services and out-of-state sales, that usually offsets the cost of any return shipping 👍
  • We have a TON of respect for the work the folks @wk057 do and we actively encourage our customers to seek them out and find the option that works best for them. We suspect that, like us, @wk057 values the importance of a worthy competitor, it keeps us sharp and agile. And that's good for Tesla owners.
Great quick notes, thanks. Clears things up.

I've personally talked to at least a dozen BMS_u029 casualties since I started both a Facebook Group (Tesla BMS_u029 | Facebook) and Twitter Account (https://twitter.com/BMS_u029). @Recell and @wk057 are the only two 3rd party vendors (so far) that I recommend to folks with the BMS_u029 issue as a 3rd party solution option.
 
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