Told sudden permanent 15 mile loss of range is "normal"

[Bugeater]

I'd look at it this way. Now that Tesla is guaranteeing the battery for 8 years, if yours dies at 7.5 years then you just might get a 500 mile battery replacement, or maybe the option for it. However, if your battery is "better" than that and dies at 8.5 years, then you'll have to pay a lot for the replacement!!!

Always looking for the bright side.

But then the DAY after the warranty expired on my first laptop I went to push the power button and it fell inside!

 

[fizzazle]

I second this and applaud the apt analogy

As a pediatrician working in urgent care I SECOND your sentiments as well!!!!

Only time will tell people! And Elon Musk standing behind the batteries should be VERY REASSURING!

 

[William13]

I noted a temporary drop in rated miles after a standard charge which resolved after a range charge. Just saying......

 

[Owner]

I wasn't paying too much attention to this as I had been told that this range was personalized by the software due to your driving habits. I did look and my range is only 235. Kind of makes sense to me that mine is a little low as I have to drive up a steep hill to get to my house and do a lot of freeway driving. Check out the graph if you'd like.

I would like a second SOC indicator though. If you wanted to resell the car this "personal rated range" could be misleading.

 

[Andrew Wolfe]

Andrew - Our experiences track.

Mine was back to 241 this morning. I now notice that the charge-level bar was not at it's normal level yesterday. I now think that for some reason it just didn't finish charging.

 

[Doug_G]

I wasn't paying too much attention to this as I had been told that this range was personalized by the software due to your driving habits.

That's an urban legend that seems to be rampant within Tesla. It is so widespread they may even be training store personnel with that misinformation! I was told that same thing at delivery and thoroughly debunked it before I got home.

Rated Range is the maximum range of the car as determined by the EPA. It is a fixed ratio of 88.33% of Ideal Range (i.e. 265/300).

Projected Range from the Energy app takes into account your recent driving habits (when set to Average).

 

[Owner]

That's an urban legend that seems to be rampant within Tesla. It is so widespread they may even be training store personnel with that misinformation!

I did not hear this from store personnel but from the service personnel.

 

[Todd Burch]

I did not hear this from store personnel but from the service personnel.

It's possible they are just as uninformed about the software feature.

 

[Mnlevin]

In the week and 680 miles I have driven my 60, I find the Rated Range very accurate. I was thinking that I would get much less range than expected due to a lot of highway driving. But I compared he trip odometer to the loss of RR during the day and it was just about spot on mile for mile. I think that if I were to drive much slower, say around 55 or less then the range would be longer than RR. Thus I would trust the RR to be accurate.

 

[Morristhecat]

I am finding a similar range loss in my 60. I used to wake up every morning and find it has a consistant 305km range under the speedometer. Then one day about a week or two ago, I woke up and found it was significantly (4.6%) lower at 291km range. There it has stayed every morning since. Should I be moderately worried? I'll check the settings under the range app.

 

[qwk]

I am finding a similar range loss in my 60. I used to wake up every morning and find it has a consistant 305km range under the speedometer. Then one day about a week or two ago, I woke up and found it was significantly (4.6%) lower at 291km range. There it has stayed every morning since. Should I be moderately worried? I'll check the settings under the range app.

I would bet that the battery is getting out of balance. Very common with the roadsters. Do you do many partial charges? How often do you charge on 110v to a full standard charge?

 

[Sacrament055]

Also worth noting that the new 4.5 firmware lowers the default charge level vs. prior to 4.5. Might want to check your slider if you got 4.5 firmware.

 

[ckessel]

I would bet that the battery is getting out of balance. Very common with the roadsters. Do you do many partial charges? How often do you charge on 110v to a full standard charge?

FWIW, my battery had "degraded" to a normal standard charge of about 232 from 238 or so when I first got it 6 months ago. I happened to do 3 range charges this last weekend due to lots of long trips required and now my standard charge is back up to 238 (actually 240 this morning). We'll see how long it holds, but I guess if you never range charge the batteries do get out of balance?

 

[dhrivnak]

Now that i know how to pull and analyze logs in my Roadster i had a similar 10 mile drop about 2 years ago. Tesla said all is fine but it is unnerving. Since then i have only seen a modest .5 mile drop. So it may not be a cause for concern.

 

[Morristhecat]

Thanks for the tips guys.

How often do you charge on 110v to a full standard charge?

I don't charge at 110V. I'll make a note to do so periodically.

Also worth noting that the new 4.5 firmware lowers the default charge level vs. prior to 4.5. Might want to check your slider if you got 4.5 firmware.

I still am on 4.4, so that shouldn't be an issue.

FWIW, my battery had "degraded" to a normal standard charge of about 232 from 238 or so when I first got it 6 months ago. I happened to do 3 range charges this last weekend due to lots of long trips required and now my standard charge is back up to 238 (actually 240 this morning). We'll see how long it holds, but I guess if you never range charge the batteries do get out of balance?

I have also never done a range charge, since I haven't had the need. I will make a note to do a range charge sometime soon if I can find the excuse.

 

[qwk]

FWIW, my battery had "degraded" to a normal standard charge of about 232 from 238 or so when I first got it 6 months ago. I happened to do 3 range charges this last weekend due to lots of long trips required and now my standard charge is back up to 238 (actually 240 this morning). We'll see how long it holds, but I guess if you never range charge the batteries do get out of balance?

Tesla is not very clear on this. From all of the reading I have done here(7 years now), when the roadsters used to get out of balance, Tesla would either reccomend to range charge the car in max range mode and let it sit, which would help balance the pack. Some of the cars(badly out of balance), would take a few times of doing this to get back into balance.

I would guess that the Model S pack coddling software isn't much different from the roadster. A range charge once in a while probably does more good than bad, so when one needs the range a range charge is a very good idea.

 

[pbrulott]

I am finding a similar range loss in my 60. I used to wake up every morning and find it has a consistant 305km range under the speedometer. Then one day about a week or two ago, I woke up and found it was significantly (4.6%) lower at 291km range. There it has stayed every morning since. Should I be moderately worried? I'll check the settings under the range app.

@ Morristhe cat I too noticed a drop of my 60 lately from 305-309km at standard charge to 295-298km lately. Unfortunately I can't compare anymore because TM upgraded me to V4.5 Monday ( the std vs max is not there anymore and the "set the limit" bar might have switched a few % points).

I also noticed something weird. A 60 EPA range is 208 miles (335km) and that would be Rated range on an Ideal Range of 230 miles or 370km = ratio of 0.904
yesterday I took a reading of the Rated vs Ideal after driving a couple of miles (it was 22C/72F outside yesterday) and I got 288km of rated and 333km of ideal = 0.865

What can be the issue? It's like my battery degraded overnight 2-4%

 

[yobigd20]

I was informed by a lead service tech manager that all these discussions on "range loss" is not actually any loss whatsoever. The Model S's battery is composed to many smaller battery packs and it's just the battery packs being out of balance with each other. He explained that during the charging process, as soon as the first battery pack reaches it's charge level, the charging stops for ALL battery packs. If the packs are not 'in balance/synchronized' this will lead to what looks like 'range loss' on our consoles. (e.g. 235 vs 245). He then proceeded to explain that over time, the packs WILL re-balance themselves due to the sophisticated technology/algorithms that Tesla is using BUT this must be done at repeated *lower amp* charging over time. For example, if you do nothing but supercharging all the time, he said thats the worst thing to do because the battery packs won't be able to balance themselves properly in time before the first pack reaches it's set charge level and shuts off the charging (he didn't say supercharging "harms" the battery, he just said that the battery pack can't re-balance itself right).

However, if you dial down your amps to use only what you need to reach your set charge level (e.g. dial down your HPWC or NEMA 14-50 to use 15-20amps instead of 40-80 amps), then repeated charges like this over and over again for a few weeks straight will allow the battery packs to re-balance themselves. In the ideal condition, *ONLY* charge your car using a 110v outlet to perfectly synchronize the battery packs. He said he has 3 test vehicles that have only ever been charged using 110v for 6 months straight and their "standard rated range" is over 300 miles because the packs are perfectly synchronized. This is a nice surprising little tidbit that I never knew and I don't think many customers know this, however this is why Tesla repeatedly says when you go on long trips (edit: I mean when you go on long trips away from home and you leave your Tesla at home) the *best thing you can do* is just plug your car into a 110v outlet and let it sit there. They leave out explaining the part that this will help "heal" the battery packs back to properly balanced/synchronized states.

In other words, you may show 235 as your standard charge today, but if you charge using only 110v for a month, your standard charge will climb back to 245+ over time as the packs re-balance themselves.

 

[brianman]

IHe said he has 3 test vehicles that have only ever been charged using 110v for 6 months straight and their "standard rated range" is over 300 miles because the packs are perfectly synchronized.

While I think I know what he meant, two fundamental errors in this phrasing make the whole assertion suspect.

The rated range for a 100% charged 85 kWh pack is 265 miles, not 300.
The standard charge is not 100% (it's 92-93% in 4.4 and 90% in 4.5), so it's even less than 265 rated miles.

So -- as phrased -- he's indicating that he has 3 cars that have a higher rating now than when the vehicle was new by two degrees (ideal vs. rated, and standard vs. range).

 

[yobigd20]

While I think I know what he meant, two fundamental errors in this phrasing make the whole assertion suspect.

The rated range for a 100% charged 85 kWh pack is 265 miles, not 300.
The standard charge is not 100% (it's 92-93% in 4.4 and 90% in 4.5), so it's even less than 265 rated miles.

So -- as phrased -- he's indicating that he has 3 cars that have a higher rating now than when the vehicle was new by two degrees (ideal vs. rated, and standard vs. range).

Yup. But those were his words. I thought the same thing. If it's true thats very cool. He did add that "Tesla has a lot of EXTREMELY VERY COOL things that they are doing in the near future" and would not comment further. Note that this was not in reference to the battery swapping, there is more stuff coming after that. That does fall in line with another Tesla rep that said to me a month ago that there is a lot of really cool things coming up soon and he also would not comment further (that rep did mention some things like 3 new wheel sets being offered by end of summer - factory 19" turbine wheels, 19" AERO wheels, and a third wheel set). I think Tesla has A LOT more up their sleeves than they lead us to believe (e.g. this "swapping demo" is not the end of cool things that they will announce this year...)