Pandamoanium
Member
Interesting. With track mode being able to increase cooling and such it seems like it’ll be able to run 3-5 laps continuously for a decent run. How was it on track in your opinion?
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Track Mode
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- Start date
I ran the full 20 minute sessions, though with some limiting after a few minutes. The joyful part was that the limiting was mild, not gimpy like in the Model S.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I think 0.3G of regen at 100mph is 240kW. Wolfram|Alpha: Making the world’s knowledge computable
Seems like a lot. Sure it might allow you to do a few more laps before you drain your battery but that's going to add a lot of heat to the cooling system which as far as we know has not been upgraded on the performance version.
Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
I tried using your wolfram alpha link earlier too to do your exact calculation and the numbers didn't match up with the real world values I was seeing. I don't think your equation for deceleration power potential is correct because you're applying an acceleration to value (1g), to a velocity. I'm not sure but thats like asking how much power does it take to accelerate at 0.3g, from 100 mph, but maybe I'm wrong and that is the right theoretical maximum.
The Bolt however, can decelerate around 0.26g, but only provides 70 kW of power during the regen deceleration (go to 12:00).
If it is just a "stupid software feature" why do you even care?
And while track mode may be just software, it may have hardware requirements. And if a P3D- doesn't meet those requirements there is no chance that it would get it. (And no they aren't going to rely on you saying that you have installed aftermarket upgrades that are as good, or better, than what comes in the PUP.)
My guess is that part of the $5k PUP cost includes additional warranty reserves for the extra stress that will be put on the car as a result of track mode usage.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I’m pretty sure it’s right. The power it takes to accelerate at 0.3G is exactly the same as power you generate decelerating at 0.3G.I tried using your wolfram alpha link earlier too to do your exact calculation and the numbers didn't match up with the real world values I was seeing. I don't think your equation for deceleration power potential is correct because you're applying an acceleration to value (1g), to a velocity. I'm not sure but thats like asking how much power does it take to accelerate at 0.3g, from 100 mph, but maybe I'm wrong and that is the right theoretical maximum.
The Bolt however, can decelerate around 0.26g, but only provides 70 kW of power during the regen deceleration (go to 12:00).
The power generated at a given deceleration rate goes up with the square of speed. The bolt is also is also lighter. At 60mph and 0.26g I get 110kW for the Bolt. Maybe it doesn’t actually decelerate that fast up to 60mph. The aerodynamic drag will also contribute to deceleration a bit too.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Hell, I was hoping that track mode would eventually make it to my RWD. Mostly for the option to de-nanny vs actual track usage...
I'm totally blown away that people are blown away because this is the easiest game theory decision tree I have ever seen.
Facts known:
Track Mode not mentioned during the ordering process.
Track Mode not a certainty to be a user feature.
Due to track mode not to be certain as a user feature, there is no solid basis to determine which variant it would appear on.
This sets the stage for an extremely simple decision tree.
IF track mode made it as a user feature, which variant would include it?
3P+ / 100%
3P- / 50% - arbitrary value meant to represent a coin flip, but in reality lower than 50% due to 3P+ option having a BBK plus liability and warranty concerns on certifying performance on a particular build out of the factory.
3LRD / 6.25% - arbitrary value meant to represent 4 successive coin flips. Completely unlikely due to TWO higher trims.
In the most generous of scenarios which I believe is even unlikely, assuming track mode inclusion for what amounts to a coin flip is a very bad idea. A car that you are ALREADY $64,000 committed.
64K / Track Mode Probability = < 50%
69K / Track Mode Probability = 100%
There was a 100% path to take, and people chose not to take it. Perceived value of + package, and anything "aftermarket", etc is irrelevant to "solving" Tesla's pareto optimal decision making process.
Facts known:
Track Mode not mentioned during the ordering process.
Track Mode not a certainty to be a user feature.
Due to track mode not to be certain as a user feature, there is no solid basis to determine which variant it would appear on.
This sets the stage for an extremely simple decision tree.
IF track mode made it as a user feature, which variant would include it?
3P+ / 100%
3P- / 50% - arbitrary value meant to represent a coin flip, but in reality lower than 50% due to 3P+ option having a BBK plus liability and warranty concerns on certifying performance on a particular build out of the factory.
3LRD / 6.25% - arbitrary value meant to represent 4 successive coin flips. Completely unlikely due to TWO higher trims.
In the most generous of scenarios which I believe is even unlikely, assuming track mode inclusion for what amounts to a coin flip is a very bad idea. A car that you are ALREADY $64,000 committed.
64K / Track Mode Probability = < 50%
69K / Track Mode Probability = 100%
There was a 100% path to take, and people chose not to take it. Perceived value of + package, and anything "aftermarket", etc is irrelevant to "solving" Tesla's pareto optimal decision making process.
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Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
Either range, belief that you won't be priviledge to get the same upgrades as a standard P3D+, or spite.
Yeah it’s called “take my ball and go home”.
Those who didn’t take delivery yet should be grateful instead of complaining because they got lucky and got a save from poor decision making.
Those who already took delivery I feel bad for but what can anyone do? There were possible consequences to cheap out on that 5K and the consequences there were.
Maximilien
Member
Possibly one or more of these:
1) It is a protest from buyers who hope that Tesla would listen to them like how Tesla lowered P3D from 78K to 64K. IMO, this may happen if majority of P3D- decides to downgrade to RWD or AWD. But I don't see that happening because not everyone is buying it for track.
2) The car is delivered and nothing much they can do other than hoping that upgrade shows up in Tesla shop. (like P85D ludicrous mode for regular P85D without underline.). There is some chance but don't bet on it.
3) No one wants to feel left out and get the second class treatment and this is particularly strong from P3D- because in their opinion, it is still same Performance Model 3 other than tires and red brakes.
4) Some people might have stretched their budget and extra 5K upgrade is just too much on top of their current configuration.
I kinda predicted the track mode would be exclusive to P3D+.
But what I am wondering is Ludicrous Mode. This is less predictable and I hate to admit it, but I think Tesla may again make it exclusive to PUP only.
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Jedi2155
Model 3 has Arrived.
#3 and #4 applies to me. I stretched my budget significantly to get the P3D- (with FSD). While the extra $5k is within the realm of affordability, I wanted to give myself breathing room so I'm not house and car poor (I'm 31, so I don't have as much savings as others maybe..).
The range issue is a bigger aspect as this car will be road trip car with my dream to visit all the US national parks as I've basically never driven outside of California except for Vegas. I don't want to lose the range because I really do want to travel (I never did it before because gas/carbon footprint yada yada etc.). On the plus side, free supercharging means it doesn't really matter in terms of cost but in terms of how many stops I need to make.
I'll summarized the impact of this to P3D- owners everywhere:
- If you were planning on tracking this, with your own upgrades. This simply sucks and no way around it not sucking.
- If you would've gotten PUP, but was stretched on $$$, well....racing car is still expensive so you just saved some more $$$ lol
- If you're worried about the extra regen, the PUP range loss will never be made up by the extra regen you could get with track mode.
As for me:
- I like the rice from the PUP and extra performance from it.
- Range loss from PUP (~40 miles). I can always add ranged wheels when money allows but I can't add the PUP later easily.
- Track mode is really not that important to me but just one of those "fun" things I could use.
- Future upgrade limit: Ludicrous and beyond, Tesla may limit track mode to P3D+, but not necessarily future upgrades. Still take a risk base on MXWing's Game theory decision tree. Reasonably high chance we might not get the option if this is a sign.
- Resale value: While I don't plan on reselling if I ever did, P3D- models will depreciate much more rapidly than P3D+ models because of the perceive loss of value of extra updates.
To defend Tesla's decision to limit track mode to P3D+, this guy cooked his stock brakes and rotors after 8 laps at Laguna Seca and got Tesla to replace them. I think Tesla has a real fear that poorly informed P3D- would do the same with track mode.
Do you think Tesla covered that damage under warranty? They didn't.
Car manufacturers make more money on replacement parts than on the car themselves.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Garlan Garner
Banned
Good for you.
I've already said over and over. People who don't want their Tesla's.....cancel your order.
It will cut down on future complaints.
( I can't believe you are canceling buying a Tesla based on a feature that will allow you to beat the crap out of your car). I never plan on using track mode. Tires are too expensive.
thelastdeadmouse
Member
I already took delivery of my Model 3 Performance, which I upgraded to from an initial base AWD order largely because of track mode. Up until last night I was given zero indication that my purchase didn't include track mode. You can say that I could have guessed it didn't, or that I gambled, but its ridiculous that I would have to guess what's included in a $64k purchase.
I'm going to email Tesla today to see it it still possible to get track mode without PUP, or how to get downgraded to base AWD and get my $11k back. Upgrading to P3D+ is not an option for me because I already stretched my budget to get a car that I had a reasonable expectation I would be able to drive on a track.
I'm going to email Tesla today to see it it still possible to get track mode without PUP, or how to get downgraded to base AWD and get my $11k back. Upgrading to P3D+ is not an option for me because I already stretched my budget to get a car that I had a reasonable expectation I would be able to drive on a track.
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roguenode
Member
Other than the brakes, the PUP package does nothing for track use, particularly the heavy 20" wheels. So, I didn't get it, figuring I'd get lightweight forged 18"s, upgraded brake kit and either good springs or coilovers. So, it's disappointing I won't get track mode. I can still edit my order so I'm debating between downgrading to AWD standard and doing those same modifications or keeping my order as is and getting MPP's traction control delete when it's available.
My only issue with this is the poor communication and timing from Tesla, which is par for the course unfortunately.
Edit: Actually MPP's traction control delete may work with the standard AWD as well, so that could be another option.
My only issue with this is the poor communication and timing from Tesla, which is par for the course unfortunately.
Edit: Actually MPP's traction control delete may work with the standard AWD as well, so that could be another option.
jkirkwood001
Active Member
MacGreiner
5YJ
For those of us who were looking forward to some of the non track benefits of the "Track" option e.g. regen dialing, manual traction control, this devalues the base performance package. If they limit Ludicrous to P+ only there will be issues especially as they didn't do brake upgrades on Xs or Ss to enable it. It makes a $10-$11k premium look a little softer now.
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