Track Mode

[Pandamoanium]

I have only met ONE driver capable of truly exploiting a GT3 and controlling it in what I think is a professional manner with TC off. So many people think turning it off makes them magically a better drive, but it takes someone who knows and feels it all to be able to drive without it. Now if you're trying to drift, it's different. I doubt even 2% of P3D+ owners can drive with all that off and have an IMPROVED lap time and be more safe without it.

Just saying, in theory all this sounds great but until these people actually go to a track and toss it around, I'll reserve my opinion that this is better to those who will NEED it. Want vs Need, people.

One thing a lot of people did not think of: LUDA Mode with PUP+ only. That alone for the fun factor would make the value justified for some. After-all, Tesla drivers are light to light drag champs

 

[Perry]

Y'all sound ridiculous. Everyone's patting their own backs for spending more money. Just because someone doesn't want to give Tesla $5,000 for whatever wheels/tires/brakes/springs they choose to put on the performance car why should they be excluded from the Track Mode even though they've purchased the $10,000 performance motor upgrade? What if they go drop $5-10k on superior-to-OEM track upgrades for their performance car, putting on objectively better wheels/tires/brakes/springs than Tesla offers? Still no track mode??? Even though they have the performance motors? What if the PUP person takes their wheels/tires off for the winter? Just the springs/brakes is what makes the difference? Performance modes/software should be tied to the $10,000 performance motor upgrade, not user-exchangable parts of the vehicle. /rant

Totally agree and best point.

 

[Perry]

Well, we can agree to disagree. My opinion is that it makes zero sense for Tesla, as the OEM, to release a track mode to the car that comes with brakes that are known to be insufficient for the track. Therefore, I made the choice to spend more money for the OEM track capable brakes, so that I would be eligible for whatever additional future modes were released.

Except that I am upgrading my brakes, wheels, suspension to something way better than what Tesla offers so again it makes no sense.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Except that I am upgrading my brakes, wheels, suspension to something way better than what Tesla offers so again it makes no sense.

It might be that with what they are doing, with such fine tuned tweaking, that they aren't yet confident in how well it works outside of the specific P+ hardware. It sounds like they are getting a lot closer to the edge than you normally see with traction control, so that's naturally going to shrink the envelope of how much hardware difference tolerance it'll have.

They might not be ready to take on that liability. We'll probably get a better idea on that when the option comes out and what disclaimers & warning they attach to it.

 

[Perry]

235 wide Michelin 4s tires and 20" wheels called performance what a joke.

Yes, heavy and narrow tires is indeed a performance joke.

 

[chickensworth]

Except that I am upgrading my brakes, wheels, suspension to something way better than what Tesla offers so again it makes no sense.

Hmmm... the performance upgrade package gets better performance software along with better performance hardware... makes sense to me.
Who is buying a car expecting any future upgrade or improved performance? You buy the car that is sold at the time. Unless there is an explicit promise of a feature that will be added like FSD, how can anyone EXPECT anything more? Tesla is great in that they do add stuff over time, but it can't be expected or assumed.
All these people with AWD's expecting P performance added later... or the base performance to get track mode... makes no sense. I'm glad track mode is going to be added to the Performance+, but it was nowhere in the contract i signed, so it's just icing on the cake.

And i've had some disagreement with @MXWing before, but he's absolutely correct in his game theory post. If there will be an upgrade to Luda or whatever feature on the horizon... which models do you think are most likely to benefit from these future updates?

 

[Pandamoanium]

Yes, heavy and narrow tires is indeed a performance joke.

Hey now, the 4S tires are pretty good as an all around tire. It got replaced by the cups but still, being able to drive to and from the track with them is valuable for those without a carrier and don't want one. R compound takes someone who needs it to improve laps. This reminds me of a rennlist post about someone mad they got the 4S tires on a GTS trim when they were expecting the Cups from the GT3.

 

[MP3Mike]

Elon tweeted that the Performance Model 3 would beat an M3 around a track. There is no way that will be possible without disabling the stability control and traction control systems. BMW allows you to do that even on their base models.

If I recall correctly that announcement was made when there was only one Performance model. After a low take rate and a lot of complaints of having to pay for things that people didn't want they split that up into two options. So I assume that Elon's tweet would now refer to the P3D+, as that is essentially all that existed at the time. They stripped things off of it to make the P3D- more affordable.

 

[Perry]

I'm gonna quote my own post again because this is clearly what has happened. The original intent was to have one P model with all the stuff. People got mad at the price so then Elon tweeted and all of a sudden the whole Tesla workforce had to scramble and figure out pricing for a P model without all the stuff. Track mode wasn't even a thing yet, so it wasn't listed on the upgrade package. People were gonna complain about range loss so they put 235 tires on the P model. They needed huge rear brakes for track mode so they put 20" wheels on it. They're trying to please everyone and in the end have pissed everyone off. But once again, the first model rolled off the assembly line two months ago and in that time it seems a whole confluence of forces have been acting to destroy the company. I really hope they can figure out how to smooth this over but the reality is this happened because they were trying to smooth other stuff over.

Its very simple how smooth this over. Allow track mode for both performance variants. And for AWD and RWD have a scaled down version of track mode if you can't bare to give them the whole thing (call it something else) or just have a disable stability control button. Easy.

 

[juanmedina]

Tesla has your money already, and you have the car. You paid for everything they said you would get - it's right there on your MVPA.

I still don't understand how people ignored the available facts regarding the standard brakes being insufficient for track use, yet are complaining about missing out on a feature that is for track use.

Also, we don't know if those of us who chose wisely (based on available facts), will have to pay for track mode or not. All the tweet said was that it will "only be available with the Performance Upgrade Package". Remember that the original $78k price was initially announced and the tweet read that "Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot)." There's still room for Tesla to charge an additional $5k for the track mode to get close to that $78k. Not that I want them to do that, but there's still a chance.

It sounds like you haven't had any sport cars or have had very much track experience before.

The first thing that you do when going to the track is swap the brake pads and fluid. OEM performance cars come with low dust, low heat, soft compound brake pads that are not suitable for track duty. Have you had track pads before? They are noise and dusty as hell not something that you want for a daily driver.

How do you know the brakes are insufficient with track specific brake pads and good racing fluid?

Melted my stock brake pads in 90 miles
Melted brake pads at the track!!
Z06 has anybody else melted the rubber Boots on the brake calipers. - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
Stock Brake Pads Any Good?

 

[Perry]

Can someone explain why people would downgrade to awd from p3d- if you’re upset about track mode? If not having track mode bothered you that much, why aren’t you instead just upgrading to p3d+?

Or better yet get an after market module that disables all the nanny crap from MountainPass Performance and end this dependence on Elon and his dangling carrots.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Its very simple how smooth this over. Allow track mode for both performance variants. And for AWD and RWD have a scaled down version of track mode if you can't bare to give them the whole thing (call it something else) or just have a disable stability control button. Easy.

Autocross mode! Autocross doesn’t require big brakes.

 

[JeffK]

One thing a lot of people did not think of: LUDA Mode with PUP+ only. That alone for the fun factor would make the value justified for some. After-all, Tesla drivers are light to light drag champs

This is exactly why I got the P3D+, just in case a future ludicrous mode was released.

Hey now, the 4S tires are pretty good as an all around tire. It got replaced by the cups but still, being able to drive to and from the track with them is valuable for those without a carrier and don't want one.

If I recall correctly the Pilot Cup 2 came before the Pilot Sport 4S (2017) and was used as the inspiration for the 4S.

 

[Knightshade]

No, do you have any evidence that there isn't a difference?

Yes- I already pointed it out.

The VIN says they are the same motors in both cars.

I agree there ought be something in the parts system to mark the "binned" versions but nobody's found one yet far as I know- and it's unclear if there's any real difference from binning because we don't know how good teslas tolerances in manufacturing are- if they're good then you're talking about very very tiny differences anyway and replacing either cars motor with either cars motor won't make any difference.

 

[Pandamoanium]

This is exactly why I got the P3D+, just in case a future ludicrous mode was released.


If I recall correctly the Pilot Cup 2 came before the Pilot Sport 4S (2017) and was used as the inspiration for the 4S.

I think you're right, I got my info mixed up. 4S replaced he super sports. Either way, they're not bad at all.

 

[Perry]

As I recall that is because Tesla hasn't brought in the pads as a separate item yet. (Who would have thought pads on an EV would be worn out so quickly?) Though it was weird that everything had a different part number and individual prices on his invoice...

But I am pretty sure I have seen that other people have been able to get just pads from Tesla now.

You can get aftermarket pads. Why would you get them from Tesla?

 

[DanCar]

The whining complaining thread: Why won't Tesla give me the oh so cool track mode, when I paid thousands of dollars already?

Sorry, Tesla wants to make more money and you won't get this tasty treat unless you cough up more money. Will help pay for the increase warranty support for those who take their cars to the track that exacts a very heavy toll on the car.

 

[Powered By Jay]

If I recall correctly that announcement was made when there was only one Performance model. After a low take rate and a lot of complaints of having to pay for things that people didn't want they split that up into two options. So I assume that Elon's tweet would now refer to the P3D+, as that is essentially all that existed at the time. They stripped things off of it to make the P3D- more affordable.

Yes the tweet was before they made the stripped version available. His tweet said “Cost of all options, wheels, paint, etc is included (apart from Autopilot). Cost is $78k. About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker & with better handling. Will beat anything in its class on the track.”

 

[ℬête Noire]

Autocross mode! Autocross doesn’t require big brakes.

Isn't switching to "Autocross mode" spending a couple weeks in your garage stripping out "unnecessary" parts from the cabin?

 

[Knightshade]

The whining complaining thread: Why won't Tesla give me the oh so cool track mode, when I paid thousands of dollars already?

Sorry, Tesla wants to make more money and you won't get this tasty treat unless you cough up more money. Will help pay for the increase warranty support for those who take their cars to the track that exacts a very heavy toll on the car.

the flaw in that thinking is they got less money- $5000 less- from all the people who would have paid for the performance pack if they'd know it was required to get track mode,