Tracking P85D delivery thread

[MarcG]

So I too heard from my DS. If I'm understanding properly some cars were completed but there was a concern with the 'fit and finish' of the first few cars Elon drove. So until this is addressed the Ds are on hold.

When I hear "fit & finish" I automatically think "interior". Besides the next-gen seats, I don't think there's anything new about the P85D that hasn't been already in production and delivered for a while (including AutoPilot). So either it's the seats, or "fit & finish" means other components than interior. Thoughts?

 

[sundoc]

When I hear "fit & finish" I automatically think "interior". Besides the next-gen seats, I don't think there's anything new about the P85D that hasn't been already in production and delivered for a while (including AutoPilot). So either it's the seats, or "fit & finish" means other components than interior. Thoughts?

Yeah I was thinking the exact same thing... The seats that is.

 

[breser]

The code says when title transfers. In the states that Tesla cannot sell in, title technically changes hands in California. I think this can be done legally.

I know this is nitpicky, but no that is not what the code says. The tax code says when the vehicle is "put in service." The IRS's bulletin adds the additional restriction that this can't happen before the title passes. Their bulletin clearly notes that this is an additional requirement.

The new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit determined under this notice applies to plug-in electric drive motor vehicles that—
(1) Are placed in service by the taxpayer in a taxable year beginning after December 31, 2009;
(2) Are acquired by the taxpayer after December 31, 2009; and
(3) Otherwise meet the requirements of § 30D.

You're pressing your luck if you claim the tax credit before delivery. If you get audited you're at the mercy of the auditor if you do this. If their nice they might ignore it since it just shifts when you'd take the credit, but they don't have to be nice.

Edit: Note the term acquired is defined as the title passing under state law.

 

[GonzoDad]

When I hear "fit & finish" I automatically think "interior". Besides the next-gen seats, I don't think there's anything new about the P85D that hasn't been already in production and delivered for a while (including AutoPilot). So either it's the seats, or "fit & finish" means other components than interior. Thoughts?

Yes, seems it would have to be the seats. We know Elon wasn't a fan of the previous seats, so he's likely paying special attention to these. That said, doesn't make much sense that this wouldn't have come up earlier.

IMO it's all speculation at this point, as the story seems to change from DS to DS. Regardless, it does help to talk through this with you all ;-)

 

[3s-a-charm]

Has anyone thought that the "fit and finish" excuse is being used to cover up a larger problem - what about regulatory approval of some sort? Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here but the romantic idea of Elon Musk personally inspecting cars and delaying delivery because he isn't 100% satisfied with fit and finish on a car that is 90% in existence (or more so for the interior) seems a little far-fetched. Or perhaps I simply underestimate the way the company is run?

Prove me wrong... Sign my dash please, Elon! (VIN P64397) :love:

 

[commasign]

Has anyone thought that the "fit and finish" excuse is being used to cover up a larger problem - what about regulatory approval of some sort? Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here but the romantic idea of Elon Musk personally inspecting cars and delaying delivery because he isn't 100% satisfied with fit and finish on a car that is 90% in existence (or more so for the interior) seems a little far-fetched. Or perhaps I simply underestimate the way the company is run?

Prove me wrong... Sign my dash please, Elon! (VIN P64397) :love:

In "Revenge of the Electric Car", there's a scene (at 43:30; available on Netflix) where Elon is standing in the holding room of a few dozen Tesla Roadsters which were built but not ready for delivery due to many "fit and finish" issues. He seemed quite stressed and upset at the condition of the cars and appeared to take control of the situation at least on camera. Wondering if that's what's going on here.

 

[wk057]

Sign my dash please, Elon! (VIN P64397) :love:

Yeah, if you're taking requests, I could go for a signed dash also, lol. P64184.

Still "In Production" on dashboard. E-Mailed DS early in the afternoon. No response as of yet.

 

[andrewket]

Has anyone thought that the "fit and finish" excuse is being used to cover up a larger problem - what about regulatory approval of some sort? Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here but the romantic idea of Elon Musk personally inspecting cars and delaying delivery because he isn't 100% satisfied with fit and finish on a car that is 90% in existence (or more so for the interior) seems a little far-fetched. Or perhaps I simply underestimate the way the company is run?

Prove me wrong... Sign my dash please, Elon! (VIN P64397) :love:

Ha- that's funny. Please don't sign my dash. But I'll take a picture of Elon sitting in my car at the factory VIN 63588. Or a nice signed letter suitable for framing thanking me for my continued support would be an nice gift. Heck, do both, and present it to me in a frame! There ya go...

So I spoke to my DS. Turns out he spends some time on the forums, and has visited our thread here (hi Adam!). Have I mentioned he is great, stays in touch, etc? Anyway, based on my email sharing the news that several of you have received notice of delays, he escalated to his management who in turn spoke to folks in CA (don't know if these ppl are corporate or at the factory itself.) As best as they can tell, my car is still on track based on my original EOL of 12/1. It was body in white yesterday, so my assumption is that it is being painted today.

I was looking at the spreadsheet to try to find any correlations on the cars that have finished production and that are now on hold, and ironically the one thing that is in common is the black interior. This doesn't mean this is the problem, it's just a datapoint. If the problem is in fact the seats, it *could* be isolated to the black seats. I guess we'll find out when PatT's or my car finishes production, which are the first non-black interior cars to have entered production (we think...).

IMHO, fit and finish could mean the interior. It could also mean the frunk, or the new charge port. Both are new for the P85D. So while the guess of the seats seems like a good one, it could be a red herring.

 

[aznt1217]

Has anyone thought that the "fit and finish" excuse is being used to cover up a larger problem - what about regulatory approval of some sort? Not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here but the romantic idea of Elon Musk personally inspecting cars and delaying delivery because he isn't 100% satisfied with fit and finish on a car that is 90% in existence (or more so for the interior) seems a little far-fetched. Or perhaps I simply underestimate the way the company is run?

Prove me wrong... Sign my dash please, Elon! (VIN P64397) :love:

I'm pretty sure he's inspecting them... this is a guy who focuses on details such as a singular piece of window trim... instead of having multiple pieces like other cars.

 

[gpetti]

Loving all the conjecture as ever, humorous and intriguing! Sure going to miss this when my car comes in :smile:
Here's my contribution.
My. DS (who also comes onTMC from time to time - and is also great!) says they told him nothing about reasons, just that there would be a one week delay. He says they typically don't share much detail. Can't blame them but have they seen how far we can extrapolate no information? Surely the facts would be tamer.
Im wondering if the P85D could be built on a different (new) production line? The seats is also a very likely option. I'm thinking the color is coincidental as the ones being held up are the ones that are otherwise already built. Mine had already flipped to completed but any that were still in production have been kept in that state pending seat replacement or whatever. I think someone else's was flipped to complete, not sure if that car has also flipped back to in production.

 

[andrewket]

Loving all the conjecture as ever, humorous and intriguing! Sure going to miss this when my car comes in :smile:
Here's my contribution.
My. DS (who also comes onTMC from time to time - and is also great!) says they told him nothing about reasons, just that there would be a one week delay. He says they typically don't share much detail. Can't blame them but have they seen how far we can extrapolate no information? Surely the facts would be tamer.
Im wondering if the P85D could be built on a different (new) production line? The seats is also a very likely option. I'm thinking the color is coincidental as the ones being held up are the ones that are otherwise already built. Mine had already flipped to completed but any that were still in production have been kept in that state pending seat replacement or whatever. I think someone else's was flipped to complete, not sure if that car has also flipped back to in production.

I don't remember where I read this.. so of course it could be totally wrong, but I thought the skateboard for the D's was in fact being built on the new line.

 

[electrish]

I think the seat issue is a red herring.

If you look at the significant number of cars that started production last week, right before a long holiday weekend, the comparably low number this week is puzzling. Given the substantial number of P85D orders and their purported importance to Tesla's production numbers in the 4th quarter, you would expect them to really ramp up production this week.
What the spreadsheet tells us though is that production of new cars was almost come to a halt; only six vehicles entered production on Monday, one yesterday, and one today. Either the spreadsheet does not include the majority of cars that started production this week, or there is a bigger problem.

If it were just the seats, wouldn't you expect the production of cars to go ahead as scheduled, with them fitting the seats as they become available, instead of it holding up the entire production?
And there are a few non-next generation seats further down in the spreadsheet, which could have started production instead, but haven't.

 

[bonaire]

The delay reminds me of the software project I'm working on. However, we are delayed by months and not a week.
They had the demo P85D cars running around and the whole D-reveal in October so they do work. If it is hardware - then it may be something with the front motor? or something with the dual controllers and synchronizing power to both motors for smooth driving? No idea. Just guessing. It's probably the visors again.

 

[sundoc]

While I know there are a bunch of us on this forum (as well as the Tesla forum), I know there are ALOT more people out there who aren't here. From what the sales guys were saying on Oct.11, in Toronto on the day of the D launch, there were 30 orders for the D, with about half of them being 'upgrades' from already ordered cars. On the spread sheet we have maybe 5-6 ppl from Toronto... So who knows, maybe there have been a bunch of cars going into production daily but just aren't represented on our spreadsheet here.

 

[electrish]

While I know there are a bunch of us on this forum (as well as the Tesla forum), I know there are ALOT more people out there who aren't here. From what the sales guys were saying on Oct.11, in Toronto on the day of the D launch, there were 30 orders for the D, with about half of them being 'upgrades' from already ordered cars. On the spread sheet we have maybe 5-6 ppl from Toronto... So who knows, maybe there have been a bunch of cars going into production daily but just aren't represented on our spreadsheet here.

Almost certainly, the spreadsheet only represents a small subset of all P85D orders, however, you would expect them to be somewhat distributed evenly or maybe weighted towards early orders, due to the higher numbers of early adopters on the Forum. However, I would not expect this cutoff to happen after the first week of production. I would be surprised if we are really only looking at a week long delay in production. We'll know soon enough!

 

[Drron]

I worked at the Ford plant in Dearborn during the summers while working my way through college and part of my summer job included what they called "change over". "Change over" meant they had to adjust many of the machines that were producing the new models that were signs antsy different from the previous model year.

The first two weeks were very slow and produced a lot of scrap parts or problem vehicles. Engineers would be running around angry with machines and men as things were not turning out the way they had "engineered" them to turn out. The hourly workers (myself included) would just smile and bite our tongues to keep from laughing as we spent half the work day sitting on our butts watching the salaried guys going crazy.

Finally, after about two weeks they got everything to work (men and machines) the way they were supposed to and then the only breaks we had was 10 minutes in the morning and 10 minutes in the afternoon. Maybe despite all the robots, all the technological advances and all the computers at the Tesla plant, things haven't changed as much as we think when it comes to auto production and change going smoothly. Be patient as they want to get it right. Dr. Ron

 

[andrewket]

Be patient as they want to get it right. Dr. Ron

What's this patient thing you mention? I'm going to have to go look it up. Of course you are correct. I just so don't want to have to drive a rental mini-van on my trip in a few weeks. Kill me now.

 

[AlMc]

What's this patient thing you mention? I'm going to have to go look it up. Of course you are correct. I just so don't want to have to drive a rental mini-van on my trip in a few weeks. Kill me now.

Pictures or it did not happen!:biggrin:

 

[sataponw]

I wonder if there is any issue with the expanded factory that is causing the delay.

 

[dennis]

No one has spoken yet about the next gen REAR seats. They are yet to be seen and aren't in the 3 P85D test cars that have been reported here (Fremont, Palo Alto, San Diego). So perhaps they are late being delivered or have fit and finish issues. That would explain how the cars could be "completed" but are now delayed.