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TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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Folks on here are saying that Elon's tweets don't matter if the fundamentals/profits are good. The problem with this idea is that Elon's juvenile tweets are affecting the fundamentals.

A year ago if you talked to someone about Tesla they might have been excited about the cars or spew some BS about the company, but pretty much everyone agreed they'd like a Tesla. Now when you talk to someone about Tesla the first thing that comes up is Elon's behaviour. People are started to be embarrassed to buy the cars because of Elon's juvenile antics and his apparent lack of judgement and ability to choose his battles.

Exactly.

This is why Elon's total use of Twitter is so problematic.

He's looked a lot like Trump since May. Yelling at analysts on the phone. Going on rants about "fake news" and "the evil media."

It was eerie when he started namecalling heroes. Trump mocked John McCain, Elon mocked Vernon Unsworth.

And now he's picking a fight with the US government and short-sellers. Netflix also has a ton of short activity, but you don't see Reed Hastings advocating to make shortselling illegal.

As soon as Elon loses the brand image of "rockstar CEO," it will hurt the sales of his product.
 
Folks on here are saying that Elon's tweets don't matter if the fundamentals/profits are good. The problem with this idea is that Elon's juvenile tweets are affecting the fundamentals.

A year ago if you talked to someone about Tesla they might have been excited about the cars or spew some BS about the company, but pretty much everyone agreed they'd like a Tesla. Now when you talk to someone about Tesla the first thing that comes up is Elon's behaviour. People are started to be embarrassed to buy the cars because of Elon's juvenile antics and his apparent lack of judgement and ability to choose his battles.

I hardly want to talk to people about Tesla anymore because the first thing that comes up is Elon's behavour and I don't want to defend that. His petty battles are making the cars less cool, which affects sales and ultimately profits. I've been long since 2014 but I'm close to bailing on this because Elon has had a million chances to grow up and he's declining them all.

people are discounting how much he's hurting perception of himself and the brand. musk in particular comes off as a man child to people that don't know the details.
 
So... I'm late to the party I guess (been hiking a mountain the last two days without data service). Why is Elon doing this? I'm a big time fan of him and TSLA... But come on, this is silly.

My biggest fear is that he's resorting to alcohol or other drugs to manage stress. Which in turn clouds one's judgement.

In all likelihood, he's just venting frustration. I'd rather he not do it this way, but I'm not going to condemn him over it. Whatever frustration we're feeling, he's feeling it a thousand times over, and that built up energy needs a way out or it could wreck him internally.

Maybe we should get together and invite him out drinking or something. Maybe Pictionary?

What, you don't like Pictionary? We have Scrabble too.
 
mostly the recovery of the nasdaq told me that the worst is over. Also I feel like we the worst negative news of the past weeks is over. That the stock is back at 260 now is making me question this conclusion again. But when I zoom all the way out to a long term fundamental view I always see it happening clearly, the EV transition because of CO2, the self driving getting better and tesla network disrupting the transportation sector, master plan part deux pretty much.

I see. The broader market is down, so it’s not just Tesla thing, sure Elon amplified it (keeps shooting at the home team), let’s hope he tweets an apology to the SEC. what’s funny was when he apologized on the CC to the analyst, the stock went up $8 so he did it again, and the stock went up another $8. Let’s hope he does a 20x apology this weekend.
 
Why is Elon doing this?
Because he can't help himself.

Why call Vern a pedo and child rapist? Why proclaim "funding secured" before getting the offer in writing? Why silence analysts on an earnings call (and proceed to go to YouTube)? Why tweet "20,000 Model 3s in December" when it's impossible? Why mock the SEC, the regulatory agency currently investigating you?

30 seconds of consideration before any single one of those tweets would have preserved shareholder value and better positioned the company.
 
Your link says they held 11.2 million shares as of June 30. That's a huge gap to 21M in the article. 16M at beg of year.

Weird
Weird indeed. I have been tracking and writing about the 13F's for some time. I chose not to write in August because there just was not enough variance in the flows from Q1. But I recorded the numbers. Fidelity reversing course in such a big way after selling off millions of shares in Q4 and Q1 would have been reason enough for a new article. But that was not was reported when the 13F filings were released as evidenced by the Reuters article. There were others too pointing to the rise of Baillie Gifford as the top institutional holder.

I am unclear how this news would have escaped all of the major news outlets. It is my guess the NASDAQ numbers may have been hacked. But if someone pulled a last minute switch at Fidelity and bought a bunch of shares (necessitating a revised 13F) that could account for a major selloff now. Otherwise, no clue what is going on.
 
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elon clearly is taking issue with the mechanics of short selling and the resourcefulness with which they operate.

einhorn, after horrible recent results, seizing the opportunity to issue a statement comparing tesla to lehman and calling tesla deceptive, cnbc all too willing to swallow it whole, without even a quick safety-whiff
...talk about the pot and the kettle

that is exactly why elon is doing this. not because he’s rattled, because he’s pointing out the biased, unbalanced, inefficient, and corrupt system for his 22.7mm followers and their followers to see and connect the dots themselves.

even people here talk as if a certain event will cause the stock to move one way or the other. it rarely works that way. tsla even less so.
the drop in stock price happens regardless what elon says or does at this time, because it has to!

inv banks/hf’s/hft’s won’t make money unless it goes the opposite way everyone expects it to go based upon the ramp successes and failures.
they jerk it around to shake all the money away from each other and us, and then let it rip upwards once they delever... and then restart the whole cycle again!

it’s like an inverse bubble, except it deflates on the “rise” and inflates and pops on the deleveraging

I agree with the sense of what you're getting at - particularly the idea that the banks etc.. make money when the stock moves differently from generally expected and "..they jerk it around to shake all the money away..".

This idea is part of why I am such a big believer in buying and holding REALLY long term. My idea of a short term trade is buying 2020 or 2021 LEAPs (I've got a few 2020 LEAPs). Mostly, I own shares outright (no margin), with a current mental model that I'm owning the shares for 10+ years. Most of the shares (2/3rds?) come from our initial purchase in 2012, when we bought with a 10+ year outlook.

5 years later, and the investment thesis has been updated over the years so that today it's still a 10+ year horizon, with my next significant reevaluation coming (I now believe) sometime next year (or 2020 at worst) -- when Model 3 is high volume and well established in most of Tesla's markets around the world.

At that reevaluation, I'll be assessing whether there is still a 10+ year backlog of new markets and new products. What I see right now, the 10+ year investment horizon will still be true in 2020 or 2021 (too many more big products that need to come to market, and then come up to scale, for my investment thesis to change yet). And my next big reassessment will be coming when Semi (mostly) and Roadster are up to scale (but probably not a big reassessment for Model Y).


Anyway, back to my point - if you're buying and holding shares for a really long time, then you don't lose money when the shares go down as they have recently, anymore than you make money when the stock reaches an ATH. Of course the ATH is more fun than what's happening now. With the right investment horizon, you can be equally indifferent today to a 1xx, 2xx, 3xx, or 4xx stock price, because all of them are just noise compared to what seems reasonable (at least to me) in 10 years.

Of course, it'd be nice if the potential could be realize next year instead of in 9 years :). But that's why I (mostly) stay away from leverage in any form - the market, even when it's not being actively manipulated (as I believe it to be), can be irrational for far longer than I can remain solvent.
 
In all likelihood, he's just venting frustration. I'd rather he not do it this way, but I'm not going to condemn him over it. Whatever frustration we're feeling, he's feeling it a thousand times over, and that built up energy needs a way out or it could wreck him internally.

Maybe we should get together and invite him out drinking or something. Maybe Pictionary?

i really don’t think it’s venting. it’s purposeful
 
Folks on here are saying that Elon's tweets don't matter if the fundamentals/profits are good. The problem with this idea is that Elon's juvenile tweets are affecting the fundamentals.

A year ago if you talked to someone about Tesla they might have been excited about the cars or spew some BS about the company, but pretty much everyone agreed they'd like a Tesla. Now when you talk to someone about Tesla the first thing that comes up is Elon's behaviour. People are started to be embarrassed to buy the cars because of Elon's juvenile antics and his apparent lack of judgement and ability to choose his battles.

I hardly want to talk to people about Tesla anymore because the first thing that comes up is Elon's behavour and I don't want to defend that. His petty battles are making the cars less cool, which affects sales and ultimately profits. I've been long since 2014 but I'm close to bailing on this because Elon has had a million chances to grow up and he's declining them all.
The younger generation is NOT phased by this stuff. They like it. I promise.
 
No doubt once the letter comes out, people will be studying the first word of every paragraph, to see if, taken together, they form some hidden sentence, as well as make note of the first letter of each line of text, in case there's a secret message there ("SEC, go f*** yourself"). What a world. :)


It's a joint double spaced 10 page max justification.
9 pages from SEC, one word from Elon " not"

Party on Wayne.
 
Short interest was increasing until last night. Today, we don't really know. They may have been covering today. We'll know next week.

There were 100,000 shares available for shorting in IB on Monday. There are 1.5 million as we speak. Different things can cause an increase in supply, but one of them is shorts covering (which would be the smart move until the Q3 numbers are released or there's a new batch of bad news).

IBorrow Desk

I watch that page too, but it can make you think things are happening when they aren't. Ihor Dusaniwsky described the "available to short" numbers provided by the brokerages as them just showing a portion that is actually available.
 
As soon as Elon loses the brand image of "rockstar CEO," it will hurt the sales of his product.

This is seriously flawed thinking. We are not talking about a B-list celebrity hawking bracelets or skin care breakthroughs on daytime TV or some commoditized product where the only differentiator is a celebrity endorsement. Whatever you think about Elon, the cars themselves are amazing and arguably better than anything else out there. Or do you seriously think some Model 3 reservation holder is going to switch to Bolt because of some random tweet Elon sent?
 
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I see. The broader market is down, so it’s not just Tesla thing, sure Elon amplified it (keeps shooting at the home team), let’s hope he tweets an apology to the SEC. what’s funny was when he apologized on the CC to the analyst, the stock went up $8 so he did it again, and the stock went up another $8. Let’s hope he does a 20x apology this weekend.
he should apologize to the SEC, stock will pop 20% on Monday. Rinse, repeat next Friday.
 
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