Ultra-Quiet cabin

[croman]

It could be much quieter though. Our BMW AH7 is much quitter than our MS100D by about 15dB. Much quieter than most $45k less cars but not in the same class as BMW '7 or Mercedes S for sure

My apples to apples comparison is the LEAF vs. a Tesla. Both are BEV. Leaf is 8dB (measured) quieter at 45mph. At highway the gap lessens but that's mostly because the LEAF has to strain a lot more at highway speeds and the roads are garbage in Chicagoland.

8dB is a lot. dB is logarithmic. I worked for a while on sound equipment so I know a thing or two and Tesla could definitely do better and really take advantage of BEV benefits. Double paned glass, as featured in some other luxury vehicles, would be a pricey addition but dynamat or other sound insulation is dirt cheap and very effective.

 

[electracity]

Tesla can sell cars as is though and that's all they care about.

But now they are introducing a competitor with the model 3 and need to differentiate. It seems any easy choice to spend a few hundred to add additional sound proofing, as they are doing now with the tires.

They would probably like to maintain as high of a price as possible on the S/X and fill in the middle with a loaded model 3. They also know that the upcoming European EVs will have the full luxury package those manufacturers have on their ICE cars. Tesla can make different choices with the S/X, but the cars can't be perceived as "less".

I have not had a ride in a model S made this year, so I'm curious how the refinements are progressing. Tesla has a set of interrelated issues, including parts availability, that they seem to be methodically addressing. While I expect the model 3 to have some significant ramping issues, there is no reason they can't "button down" the range of issues on the S/X that keep it from being a full high end premium car experience.

 

[croman]

But now they are introducing a competitor with the model 3 and need to differentiate. It seems any easy choice to spend a few hundred to add additional sound proofing, as they are doing now with the tires.

They would probably like to maintain as high of a price as possible on the S/X and fill in the middle with a loaded model 3. They also know that the upcoming European EVs will have the full luxury package those manufacturers have on their ICE cars. Tesla can make different choices with the S/X, but the cars can't be perceived as "less".

I have not had a ride in a model S made this year, so I'm curious how the refinements are progressing. Tesla has a set of interrelated issues, including parts availability, that they seem to be methodically addressing. While I expect the model 3 to have some significant ramping issues, there is no reason they can't "button down" the range of issues on the S/X that keep it from being a full high end premium car experience.

I don't disagree that Tesla could do a lot better. That's in fact what I'm saying. I'm just also saying that as long as people don't care enough to withhold their orders, Tesla will keep on keeping on. I don't see the Model 3 stealing Model S sales just because the S isn't as quiet as a German luxury vehicle unless the 3 is somehow quieter which would be an issue based on Elon's anti-selling the 3 vs. the S.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I don't disagree that Tesla could do a lot better. That's in fact what I'm saying. I'm just also saying that as long as people don't care enough to withhold their orders, Tesla will keep on keeping on. I don't see the Model 3 stealing Model S sales just because the S isn't as quiet as a German luxury vehicle unless the 3 is somehow quieter which would be an issue based on Elon's anti-selling the 3 vs. the S.

Agreed. This is why we need more competition in the BEV space to see any substantial change. With sparse competition, Tesla has less incentive to fix this issue. Competition is a good thing. You get true competition from true capitalism (not corporatism like we have today) but that's a topic for other forums

 

[Naonak]

I think the reason we don't see a lot of sound deadening material in the S and X is that it adds a significant amount of weight, which means lost range. I'd wager dollars to donuts that the calculation was made between efficiency and adding additional sound material and it came out on the side of efficiency.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I respectfully disagree on the weight thing. I think that's a bit of an excuse. Go out to EVTripPlanner and add hundreds of pounds to the weight parameter in your car and it barely makes any difference in range at all. Sure, if you're navigating large elevation changes it makes more of a difference. However, the "rated and ideal" miles calculations are all based on flat roads.. so more weight wouldn't have changed their advertised #'s at all. And, I will also dispute in general that there are materials that do sound deadening decently well that don't weigh a ton. It's all in what you choose to use materials wise.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Anytime I see the word "Ultra" in a marketing ad I always question it.
As compared to what? A diesel bus with no muffler? or a noise canceling headphone?
Ultra means JS if there are no metrics. 50db? Or 110db?

Compared to SpaceX launch, at 50 feet. Sheesh, I thought everyone knew.

 

[jelloslug]

Anytime I see the word "Ultra" in a marketing ad I always question it.
As compared to what? A diesel bus with no muffler? or a noise canceling headphone?
Ultra means JS if there are no metrics. 50db? Or 110db?

It's ultra vague...

 

[TacC]

Just want to go on record in saying that I think Tesla has done a decent job of suppressing noise in the S. My take on the sales pitch here is that the stereo is less audible to those who are outside of the car than in a non-UHFS model. How the two models handle road and wind noise I'm not as comfortable speaking on.

 

[cab]

Oddly enough, I bet the cheaper Model 3 ends up quieter due to the lack of a hatch.

 

[headcase]

As far as I can tell, the user reports of those who have installed sound deadening material have been mostly mixed on how much of a reduction in db. Apparently, that's because most of the bothersome sound is primarily penetrating the Tesla glass.

 

[Trebor Srevlis]

Yea this is an area I've been very disappointed with Tesla. Sound deadening materials are really cheap and for Tesla to skimp on this stuff is just stupid. /QUOTE]
Actually it is really expensive. Low-frequencies are only stopped with mass. Mass is heavy. I just threw away some really dense foam from speakers, and it was *very* heavy - like a box of it could have been 20 lbs. Tesla is probably disinclined to add 100 lbs of material to me more quiet. If it were cheap, everyone would do it.

 

[Oakland John]

The premium package lists "ultra-quiet cabin" under description for sound package.
Is this new?

View attachment 237685

I have a Model S D70 delivered on July 31, 2015, and I think it's pretty noisy on the freeway compared with other luxury cars (in particular the Lexus and Mercedes Benz). I have a friend who has a 2013 S, and he feels even more strongly that the S is pretty noisy on the Freeway - we have to turn up volume on radio or podcast all the time. Hopefully Tesla is doing better on newer cars, but this is a real weakness for Tesla.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The loudest sound in my Model S is the air rushing around the front windscreen at highway speeds. The glass seems really thin and poorly insulated against noise. It's the glass.

 

[cab]

It's kind of everything. The glass, the frameless doors, the door and window seals, the big hatch, the panoramic roof seals, the alignment of windshield/roof/pano, the door handles (these actually let it air around them and road noise. The list goes on...

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I don't disagree that Tesla could do a lot better. That's in fact what I'm saying. I'm just also saying that as long as people don't care enough to withhold their orders, Tesla will keep on keeping on. I don't see the Model 3 stealing Model S sales just because the S isn't as quiet as a German luxury vehicle unless the 3 is somehow quieter which would be an issue based on Elon's anti-selling the 3 vs. the S.

The Model 3 is definitely going to steal sales from the Model S.

A lot of people including me got the Model S because there wasn't a Model 3. There wasn't anything in the $50Kish range that gave a good cost per range mile. The Long range Model 3 right now is the champion when it comes to cost per range.

The Model S was never really luxurious. It always had issues with allowing too much road noise, and too much wind noise into the cabin. It never had a great fit/finish that matched that of German Luxury cars.

But, we still bought it. We bought it for everything else it brought to the table.

Elon is clearly terrified that the Model 3 is going to steal sales. That's at the heart of the anti-selling of the 3 that's been going on. I think that's going to continue until the Model S interior is revamped by the guy from Volvo. I expect to see that happen over the course of the Model 3 ramp up.

Where people are still buying the Model S because of how much more quickly they can get them.Then when the Model 3 starts to become readily available the Model S will suddenly be a lot better.

Tesla always makes the buying decision a painful one.

 

[wdolson]

I don't disagree that Tesla could do a lot better. That's in fact what I'm saying. I'm just also saying that as long as people don't care enough to withhold their orders, Tesla will keep on keeping on. I don't see the Model 3 stealing Model S sales just because the S isn't as quiet as a German luxury vehicle unless the 3 is somehow quieter which would be an issue based on Elon's anti-selling the 3 vs. the S.

Tesla is one of the few companies who will make advances when people aren't withholding purchases because they want to push ahead the technology. Nobody was really complaining there wasn't an AWD Model S or it couldn't drive itself.

Updating the Model S/X is a very low priority right now for two reasons:
1) They need as many people as possible focused on getting the Model 3 into full production and ironing out all the last minute problems that always crop up with these sorts of projects.
2) They need something to bring people in the door after the free supercharging goes away at the end of the year. I suspect an interior refresh will be coming sometime in early 2018. They may even make some structural changes to improve weaknesses in the S/X designs.

Personally, I find my Model S to be very quiet. A lot better than my old Buick.

I have noticed there is a high pitched whine from the motors around 45 mph that can't be heard above or below that speed range. I believe the Leaf has a synchronous AC motor and Tesla uses induction motors with pulse width modulation (PWM) on the AC signal driving the motor. PWM has advantages, but it is electrically very noisy. Tesla manages to damp out the electrical noise in the cabin so the AM radio works, but it's so bad in the BMW i3 they disabled the AM radio. The noise from the PWM inverter was so bad the AM radio was useless.

I suspect the PWM around 45 mph is causing some kind of mechanical whine in something in the car.

But Tesla doesn't do the best job of making an aerodynamic body that doesn't cause bits of turbulence that creates noise at speed. Especially around the glass pieces. Most other cars, all the glass blends into the frames, but Tesla's glass like the front windshield has edges sticking up. Those corners generate turbulence.

It works, but it neither looks as polishes as cars from other car makers, nor is it as quiet. I'm hoping if they are looking at some strutural changes blending the glass into the car better will be one of them.

 

[bob_p]

Comparing our 2012 S P85 and 2017 S 100D, both with the premium upgrades and audio system, the biggest difference in sound is from the tire noise. Our S P85 has standard tires and our S 100D came with the new sound deadening tires (filled with foam), making the S 100D considerably more quiet on local streets and the highway.

 

[X Fan]

I wonder if Tesla will ever take an approach similar to Porsche whereby you can purchase a thicker glass option?

From my ears, it's a difference maker....

 

[boonedocks]

The loudest sound in my Model S is the air rushing around the front windscreen at highway speeds. The glass seems really thin and poorly insulated against noise. It's the glass.

+1 and absolutely the case. Tires, mechanical, other vehicles nearby, my S100D is pretrty quiet. The wind noise from around the front windscreen is obnoxious. I took my car in for its 12,500 mile service and brought it up. We drove my car and 3 other new cars and all were equally as noisy. Definitely by design (flaw I might add) and not unusual for Tesla.