MrBadger
Badger out
At the end of this, they run the cars until they stop. Around 23 minutes for the Tesla. Spoiler alert, the others are a bit earlier.
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Unpleasant Experience nearly running out of charge on M6
- Thread starter TheManofMead
- Start date
tj333
Member
I do a mix of short and long range driving in my LR M3, my thoughts are that the range estimate is pretty good down to around say 20-30% at which point it starts dropping off alarmingly quickly (similar to your experience).
A completely unsubstantiated theory i have to explain this is that the M3 nominally has e.g. 310 miles range, but wants to give you a few miles spare at 0%, and so maybe it's calibrated to under-report the available charge/range at low % in order to keep at bit back for 0. A few video reviews/anecdotal evidence online seem to show the M3 going quite a few miles past 0. I'm not planning on testing it though!
A completely unsubstantiated theory i have to explain this is that the M3 nominally has e.g. 310 miles range, but wants to give you a few miles spare at 0%, and so maybe it's calibrated to under-report the available charge/range at low % in order to keep at bit back for 0. A few video reviews/anecdotal evidence online seem to show the M3 going quite a few miles past 0. I'm not planning on testing it though!
Well despite your unfortunate experience, at least that's good news (for those of us who plan very long journeys anyway!) to hear that ABRP was so close to real-world results.
Louis0w
Member
MP3 owner. I’ve always found the Trip energy graph very accurate; always within a couple of % under normal driving and conditions. Referring to it regularly on a journey allows you to adjust speed to ensure a safe margin on arrival. If it’s going to be ‘tight’ I usually take it a little slower to begin with until I’m certain I have a buffer and then feel more confident to drive normally. So far, I’ve not been overly concerned arriving at a destination with, say, approx. 5% soc.
pdk42
Active Member
I did an out and return trip on Sunday of just under 200 miles with a starting charge of 82% (so a theoretical range to empty of about 250 miles). On starting the return, the computer said I'd arrive at 8%. I arrived at 11%. I'm pretty pleased about that, but more importantly, the energy consumption graph for the trip was very confidence inspiring. It showed a slightly better than average trend all the way back so I was feeling pretty confident about making it without worries. I had A/C on (and it was warm) and a slight tail wind (but not directly behind me and only about 5 mph). I've also done a few long trips to and from Germany and have always found the trip energy graph to be accurate and very helpful in reducing stress.
So, I'd vote for always using %, not miles, and to use the trip energy graph.
So, I'd vote for always using %, not miles, and to use the trip energy graph.
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This confirms my view above - if you set out with the perspective of "I must reach destination with at least (say) 15% charge" in case of emergencies, then you would necessarily have stopped for a quick top up and avoided all the anxiety!
Not judging you directly, given you're comparison is with MS experience.
But my general point is that it's a much 'safer' approach to use battery % and always commit to being at a minimum %, and so stopping off for small top ups, than rely on a totally unreliable / changing miles measure which can be affected by so many factors.
At the end of this, they run the cars until they stop. Around 23 minutes for the Tesla. Spoiler alert, the others are a bit earlier.
Thankfully I had watched this video some time ago. As I lamented my impending doom around 4 miles from Tebay I thought I recollected that Teslas would go for around 9 miles on "Zero". Alas it didn't give me much comfort at the time
MrBadger
Badger out
Gatsojon
Member
This is an interesting thread and very glad you made it. I would not have enjoyed that experience at all and my wife even less.
So I'll learn from your experience and stick to battery % indication, and only look at the 'predicted range' in the energy display, based on either 15 or 30 miles.
But as other's have said, my experience is that the Tesla predictions based on satnav destination has, thus far, been faultless.
So I'll learn from your experience and stick to battery % indication, and only look at the 'predicted range' in the energy display, based on either 15 or 30 miles.
But as other's have said, my experience is that the Tesla predictions based on satnav destination has, thus far, been faultless.
Just wanted to add my opposite experience, heading back from the peak district to London the car said I had to go via Birmingham to get a charge in, but my manliness said nope, I can make the charger on the M1 at Newport Pagnell (Even skipped a charger on the way). Passenger really didn't like that it said charge on arrival -1%. They really didn't like it when after a few good hills it got -4%.
But careful driving on the motorway as you do with the car you know and arrived with 6% to spare. Perhaps the "fleet" knowledge about miles/KWh is better on the S than the 3?
But careful driving on the motorway as you do with the car you know and arrived with 6% to spare. Perhaps the "fleet" knowledge about miles/KWh is better on the S than the 3?
I just returned from Poland yesterday in a SR+ and I actually found the car always said I would use more battery then I did. I have it set to % but I always arrived at my next SC with a lot more battery then predicted in some cases over 10% more.
It did surprise me how much I was saving and allowed me to raise my speed 200kph on some sections in Germany.
Perhaps display % instead of miles and see how you get on?
It did surprise me how much I was saving and allowed me to raise my speed 200kph on some sections in Germany.
Perhaps display % instead of miles and see how you get on?
Great story, glad you made it! What did your passenger make of all this?
If you aren't on the nav program, the miles left is showing EPA rated, ie ~60mph on the flat. Gretna is nearly sea level, but tebay is way up in the hills. Although I didn't realise the range cost was quite so much! I prefer to drive on %, in winter 2 miles to 1% is nice an conservative on the motorway, and in summer I'm seeing 3 miles to a %. That's what I use for my man maths so not tempted to watch the graph more than the road!
Interesting that the S gets closer tho, wonder if it would on that particular trip?
If you aren't on the nav program, the miles left is showing EPA rated, ie ~60mph on the flat. Gretna is nearly sea level, but tebay is way up in the hills. Although I didn't realise the range cost was quite so much! I prefer to drive on %, in winter 2 miles to 1% is nice an conservative on the motorway, and in summer I'm seeing 3 miles to a %. That's what I use for my man maths so not tempted to watch the graph more than the road!
Interesting that the S gets closer tho, wonder if it would on that particular trip?
bitmanEV
Member
My passenger was my 88 year old mother whom I had just collected from hospital. I didn’t want to worry her so suffered in silence. The last 2 miles were steep downhill (after a steep uphill section). So when we hit that steep downhill my confidence we would make it grew considerably.
I had made similar Southbound M6 journeys in the Model S a couple of times in the early days of ownership, but I suspect in a more cautious mindset at that time. My own complacency was almost my downfall on this occasion.
PV4EV
Member
I’ve driven that same route, in both directions, many times, in both a Roadster (back in 2011-2012..) and a Model S. The Roadster had half the battery capacity and 50% worse Cd, so the energy drain was much more noticeable than in an MS. Before Superchargers there was a UK HPC / High Power Charger network for Roadsters, and Tebay had one!
The most important thing to bear in mind is that the M6 from Gretna to Tebay gently rises just over 1,050 ft / 320m reaching a peak just before J39 / M6 / Shap turn-off .. which also happens to be the highest section of motorway anywhere in the UK!
The extra energy required to haul the M3 up that very long slope, in addition to just normal cruising on the level, can be calculated from bog standard O level maths. At the Shap summit the potential energy the car has gained has to come from somewhere, namely the battery, and the simple equation for PE = Mass X Elevation-change X Gravity-constant. So, to haul a 2,000kg car up a gradual 330m high slope, and allowing for a mere 15% loss due to inefficiencies, requires approx 7.5mj of energy, or approx 2kWh beyond the normal energy for driving economically on the flat. That 2kWh equates to about 8-10 miles loss of range if driving 50mph. A modest head wind of just 10mph over 40+ miles will also cost the best part of 2kWh as well, so call it approx 4kWh total, and this helps explain 15-20 mile loss of range beyond normal eco cruising at 50mph.
Obviously there are many other factors that could be considered, but hope this helps provide an explanation.
Here's a gratuitous photo taken at Tebay, from about 9 yrs ago, showing the forerunner to Superchargers !
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'Back in my day.....'
Gosh makes all the moaning we hear about SCs now seem rather trivial. Do you still have the Roadster? In a different life without family responsibilities I would truly love to own one!
Slightly off topic but this isn't just an EV thing. My current diesel car has dreadful range prediction. when the range meter gets below 100 miles you could have anywhere between 50 and 150 miles left. In fact a colleague who had the same car once ran out of diesel with the range meter reading 62 miles to go!
Thanks for the explanation which helps to explain the miles evaporating. Even better the photos and the insight into those of you who were there in the earliest days of Tesla.
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