MrBadger
Badger out
At the end of this, they run the cars until they stop. Around 23 minutes for the Tesla. Spoiler alert, the others are a bit earlier.
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Just tried it out, using 65% (202 miles) as starting position. It suggests a charge at Gretna to add 16% and thus an arrival percentage of 17% at Tebay. Or alternatively you could say no stop at Gretna and 1% arrival.
This confirms my view above - if you set out with the perspective of "I must reach destination with at least (say) 15% charge" in case of emergencies, then you would necessarily have stopped for a quick top up and avoided all the anxiety!Just tried it out, using 65% (202 miles) as starting position. It suggests a charge at Gretna to add 16% and thus an arrival percentage of 17% at Tebay. Or alternatively you could say no stop at Gretna and 1% arrival.
I do recall setting Tebay as the destination at the start and it said arrive with 5% charge at Tebay. I briefly thought thats ridiculous it must be way more than that (again all based on / biased by my previous Model S experience). Virtually without exception in the S the predicted arrival percentage is always pessimistic and ticks upwards anything from 3% to 7% or more during a journey. Hence my misplaced confidence throughout.
At the end of this, they run the cars until they stop. Around 23 minutes for the Tesla. Spoiler alert, the others are a bit earlier.
Thankfully I had watched this video some time ago. As I lamented my impending doom around 4 miles from Tebay I thought I recollected that Teslas would go for around 9 miles on "Zero". Alas it didn't give me much comfort at the time
My passenger was my 88 year old mother whom I had just collected from hospital. I didn’t want to worry her so suffered in silence. The last 2 miles were steep downhill (after a steep uphill section). So when we hit that steep downhill my confidence we would make it grew considerably.Great story, glad you made it! What did your passenger make of all this?
If you aren't on the nav program, the miles left is showing EPA rated, ie ~60mph on the flat. Gretna is nearly sea level, but tebay is way up in the hills. Although I didn't realise the range cost was quite so much! I prefer to drive on %, in winter 2 miles to 1% is nice an conservative on the motorway, and in summer I'm seeing 3 miles to a %. That's what I use for my man maths so not tempted to watch the graph more than the road!
Interesting that the S gets closer tho, wonder if it would on that particular trip?
To put this in context, I have owned my Model S for 2 years, and we have recently acquired a M3P for Mrs Mead. Had to go to Scotland last weekend, and as my S had a puncture, I had to take the M3P.
Now I completely accept that what ultimately unfolded was of my own making, but the contrast in range loss on the M3P compared to the Model S was disconcerting to say the least.
I set out from Scotland to travel back to Cheshire. Saturday evening, perfect weather conditions sunny and warm. Not sure about wind and direction and maybe it was strong against, considering what was to unfold.
I wanted to make the 260 mile trip with only 1 stop. I had just collected my elderly mother from hospital and wanted to get her back home with minimum charge stops. At Forth Valley Hospital near Falkirk the M3P said 202 miles range. 144 miles to Tebay charger was my plan. 56 miles to spare, no brainer I thought. What could possibly go wrong.
On approach to Gretna Services (last charge possible before Tebay) the car was giving the red warning not enough charge to reach destination without stopping at Gretna. At this point its 48 miles real world to Tebay and the car showing 63 miles. This was where I made my grave error. Extensive experience with my Model S told me there was no way I would ever not make it based on 48 miles and the car showing 63 miles. 15 'spare' miles for a 48 miler. It was unthinkable this could or would ever be a problem in the Model S. I concluded the M3P was being unduly cautious and it wouldn't be a problem. Bad mistake.
With 24 miles to go, the car showed 31 miles left. Still 7 to spare, ease off the speed, it will be ok.
By 12 miles to go the car showed 12 miles left. Really getting worried.
By 9 miles to go the car was showing 7 miles left. This isn't going to end well.
By 5 miles to go the car was showing 0 miles left.
All I can say is that for those of you familiar with the final miles to Tebay travelling South is that it is steep downhill for those last 2 miles. Great relief that was the case, and greater relief to successfully get to Tebay chargers. Around 4-5 miles travelled on 0 miles left. I have no desire to repeat this experience.
Nothing I did seemed to halt the alarming haemmorraging of miles. The last 20 miles were spent at around 50mph but even that didn't seem to help. I think for every 3 miles real world travelled I was losing 4 miles off the GOM. This just would not happen with the S. I've puzzled about what went wrong here (other than my own error of not heeding the charge up warning). Maybe the wind was heavy against, also steep uphill in parts? Finally, the M3P had been acquired during lockdown and all drives so far had been very slow and low Wh consumptions. The real world miles travelled was also very low, so maybe the car hadn't got such a well tuned "history" to draw on, thus contributing to the problem encountered.
Do you have your own "I nearly ran out of charge" story to share?
Here's a gratuitous photo taken at Tebay, from about 9 yrs ago, showing the forerunner to Superchargers !
View attachment 574675
View attachment 574676
Well this is totally fascinating!I’ve driven that same route, in both directions, many times, in both a Roadster (back in 2011-2012..) and a Model S. The Roadster had half the battery capacity and 50% worse Cd, so the energy drain was much more noticeable than in an MS. Before Superchargers there was a UK HPC / High Power Charger network for Roadsters, and Tebay had one!
The most important thing to bear in mind is that the M6 from Gretna to Tebay gently rises just over 1,050 ft / 320m reaching a peak just before J39 / M6 / Shap turn-off .. which also happens to be the highest section of motorway anywhere in the UK!
The extra energy required to haul the M3 up that very long slope, in addition to just normal cruising on the level, can be calculated from bog standard O level maths. At the Shap summit the potential energy the car has gained has to come from somewhere, namely the battery, and the simple equation for PE = Mass X Elevation-change X Gravity-constant. So, to haul a 2,000kg car up a gradual 330m high slope, and allowing for a mere 15% loss due to inefficiencies, requires approx 7.5mj of energy, or approx 2kWh beyond the normal energy for driving economically on the flat. That 2kWh equates to about 8-10 miles loss of range if driving 50mph. A modest head wind of just 10mph over 40+ miles will also cost the best part of 2kWh as well, so call it approx 4kWh total, and this helps explain 15-20 mile loss of range beyond normal eco cruising at 50mph.
Obviously there are many other factors that could be considered, but hope this helps provide an explanation.
Here's a gratuitous photo taken at Tebay, from about 9 yrs ago, showing the forerunner to Superchargers !
View attachment 574675
View attachment 574676
Thanks for the explanation which helps to explain the miles evaporating. Even better the photos and the insight into those of you who were there in the earliest days of Tesla.I’ve driven that same route, in both directions, many times, in both a Roadster (back in 2011-2012..) and a Model S. The Roadster had half the battery capacity and 50% worse Cd, so the energy drain was much more noticeable than in an MS. Before Superchargers there was a UK HPC / High Power Charger network for Roadsters, and Tebay had one!
The most important thing to bear in mind is that the M6 from Gretna to Tebay gently rises just over 1,050 ft / 320m reaching a peak just before J39 / M6 / Shap turn-off .. which also happens to be the highest section of motorway anywhere in the UK!
The extra energy required to haul the M3 up that very long slope, in addition to just normal cruising on the level, can be calculated from bog standard O level maths. At the Shap summit the potential energy the car has gained has to come from somewhere, namely the battery, and the simple equation for PE = Mass X Elevation-change X Gravity-constant. So, to haul a 2,000kg car up a gradual 330m high slope, and allowing for a mere 15% loss due to inefficiencies, requires approx 7.5mj of energy, or approx 2kWh beyond the normal energy for driving economically on the flat. That 2kWh equates to about 8-10 miles loss of range if driving 50mph. A modest head wind of just 10mph over 40+ miles will also cost the best part of 2kWh as well, so call it approx 4kWh total, and this helps explain 15-20 mile loss of range beyond normal eco cruising at 50mph.
Obviously there are many other factors that could be considered, but hope this helps provide an explanation.
Here's a gratuitous photo taken at Tebay, from about 9 yrs ago, showing the forerunner to Superchargers !
View attachment 574675
View attachment 574676