I've gotten the same dead air, for the record, from multiple notes on the issue. I've even wedged in a question about this in other correspondence for unrelated things that were responded to, but this question was ignored completely.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
[updated with *] P85D 691HP should have an asterisk * next to it.. "Up to 691HP"
- Thread starter krisg81
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Driving Dynamics Model S
I've gotten the same dead air, for the record, from multiple notes on the issue. I've even wedged in a question about this in other correspondence for unrelated things that were responded to, but this question was ignored completely.
SDRick
Active Member
The silence from the company on this issue is deafening. That said, the most important metric is not the peak or advertised horsepower rating but actual performance. 3.2 seconds 0 to 60 is fantastic, but apparently not very durable.
It is my prediction that once you and others perform tests, our beloved insane mode degrades rapidly as battery charge diminishes. So to me, even more important than stated horsepower rating is what type of acceleration and performance can we expect at lower charge levels? As suggested earlier, at some point of SOC and heat levels the insane mode should automatically "switch off".
Have you or anyone tested 0 to 60 times at 50% charge? My guess it will be somewhere around 4.4 seconds which is still impressive, but not in the same league. I fear that the lack of these test results this far into the new model portend unimpressive numbers.
I hope I am wrong.
Actually this has not been my experience. 0-60 is almost always repeatable for me unless traction control kicks in and doesn't very much down at least 60% where I'm able to hit 0-60 in just over 3.2 seconds. 90% gets me there in 3.1 seconds. But this is not function of peak hp as much as it is a function of how soon power is applied i.e. torque which Tesla easily surpasses in it's official specs.
This is with a 1 ft rollout which is how auto manufacturers in the the US have always published their specs. A 3.2 second 0-60 without the 1 ft rollout is about 3.5 seconds on a P85D.
This is measured with a VBOX sport using an external antenna.
- - - Updated - - -
That's right, and at the very least, Tesla should not have had a blanket published spec of 691 hp even if it was achievable at 100% without qualifying it first or they should have published the real hp at the maximum daily driving charge at the very least. Since it's not close to 691 at 100% it's a moot point though.
It a comparative number to ICE horsepower, not an absolute. ICE horsepower numbers have qualified conditions too. You want 691, you can get 691.
In an ICE car you can't even hook up 691 until the car has moved significantly.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I really wish I hadn't clicked on this thread again after I initially read it at posting. I really don't understand what everyone is so concerned about, or why everyone is focusing on the HP numbers at all.
Seriously, be upset if you can't go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, or you can't hit 155mph. These are the things that actually matter...whether you can hit max-HP is completely pointless. Maybe I'm missing something, but what does hitting 691HP get you when the advertised real world performance is achievable?
I just don't understand.
Seriously, be upset if you can't go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, or you can't hit 155mph. These are the things that actually matter...whether you can hit max-HP is completely pointless. Maybe I'm missing something, but what does hitting 691HP get you when the advertised real world performance is achievable?
I just don't understand.
Well the 3.2/3.1 0-60 doesn't seem to be a true 0-60, for one. More horsepower would mean better passing maneuvers at higher speeds. The Model S is not the best with acceleration past 65-ish. Takes a while to get to 155... much longer than previous vehicles with much less HP. That's obviously partly due to gearing, but reaching the advertised HP number of 691 would make a big difference.
The problem is dishonesty (and subsequently, misinformation via the media who of course put this 691 bhp number on headlines). And real-world performance is not only 0-60, it's acceleration across the whole spectrum of street driving speeds. For example, the most relevant time for me in everyday driving would be 40-80mph (country road => highway), and there, it's not that much better than the P85, at least not as much as 691 bhp would lead one to expect. If I had bought the P85D and realized this afterwards, I would be very angry. Luckily, this whole motor power nonsense raised the alarm bell at the outset, which made me stay with my not-so-different-at-speed P85. Of course, when the P110D comes out (assuming the battery is the bottleneck) and they publish an actually insane max power, I'll be the first to sign!
Yeah, I've driven along side my wife (P85) a few times on the highway and we've both mashed the pedal with not much difference at all in acceleration... the P85D was still pulling ahead, but really really slowly. Definitely not +200 HP.
Agreed, I have noticed the drop in power as well. Instead of having an Insane mode that is clearly far less than full charge insane, I'd like to see an indicator on that screen (where insane mode is) that shows available HP or Torque to the wheels. I ran my low SOC P85D against my plain 85 (at full charge), and only managed a couple car lengths out front. From a 40 MPH punch, it was even more disappointing. The P85D is definitely more powerful at any charge, but does seem to diminish rapidly compared to the single motor versions of the car.
Ok, you go to a restaurant and order Lobster and Champagne. You get bread and tap water. You leave without hunger and thirst.
I want to see you not complain, and if you would, I just don't understand.
jerjozwik
Active Member
sorry, i dont actually have a tesla, but isnt that what the dashed orange line is for on the powere side of the gauge?
That is exactly the problem here. The difference at higher speeds between high and low SOC is HUGE !! 0-60 as of my tests is just about 0.4 seconds less, but 60 to 120 you loose seconds.
In any way as already posted, the disappointment is at higher speeds. I also upgraded from a P85 BEFORE knowing that it does not provide the advertised horsepower at all. Its just the additional torque which makes it fast from the start. If it has the full 691, I think it would not only do 2.8 seconds 0-60 but we could also beat a M5 at higher speeds.
I am hoping that we get a 110 KW battery AND it is retrofit-able. I think Tesla owes this to each P85D driver (not for free, I would pay for it...)
Tell me how I can get 691 hp out of a P85D? At 414KW from the battery, the most hp the P85D could produce is 555 before any conversion losses through the DC/DC converter on it's way out to the motor shaft. I'm seeing 460 at the wheels which is a little bit more than the two dyno runs that have already been published.
- - - Updated - - -
It's because it takes 1.9 seconds to go from 50 to 70 which is what it takes for a car with 9 lbs for every hp, not a car that has 7 lbs for every hp like Tesla was claiming before they removed it from the website.
- - - Updated - - -
That's because there's only about 30 hp difference from a P85 pulling 430 at the wheels vs my P85D:
- - - Updated - - -
Tesla is right on with their 0-60 claims and more so than anyone else. The 0-60 claims by other manufacturers are almost never achievable except by a professional race car drive and only then after multiple attempts. The P85D does it with Grandma every time. The 1 foot rollout is the standard in the US for publishing 0-60 times. Manufacturers don't need to specify that in order to be accurate.
- - - Updated - - -
No, that indicator shows KW used which maxes out at 414 KW under a 90%+ charge which is equal to 555 hp in a perfect world where there are zero losses of any kind which of course will never be the case.
- - - Updated - - -
And you wouldn't have known during the test drive or if you did the explanation as to why was totally believable. Both my test drives were limited to 80 MPH. When I punched it at 60 I said that it didn't feel like 5000 lb car that had almost 700 hp. My sales rep, Jonathan at the Sunnyvale store said the reason for that is that the speed is limited to 80MPH and that the power is diminished progressively before hitting 80 MPH so that it wasn't shut off all at once. If you've ever hit the rev limiter at speed in a car that still pulls a lot of power up to redline, you know how violent it can be to suddenly have all power instantly cut.
Since the car was so fast from 0-60, I totally bought and believed this explanation. However, on the drive home, after this thread was started, but just a week before I was do to pick up my car, I realized it was not the speed limited. The PD really didn't have the power claimed. Note, I'm not in any way saying the sales guy was lying. He was giving me the information he was told.
Last edited:
And a P85/P85+ with 1-foot rollout gets 3.9s per Motor Trend. Not much difference, in my mind, between 3.5s and 3.9s. At least not worth the price Tesla is asking.
You're not comparing apples to apples. That's 3.5 seconds *without* the 1 ft rollout or 3.2 seconds *with* the 1 foot rollout. At a 90% charge it's 3.1 seconds with a 1 ft rollout or .8 seconds faster than the P85 which is still a huge difference by performance standards.
llavalle
Member
I'd have to agree with the P85D owners here. I own a 85D and since the performance boost to 422HP, the car is barely slower than a P85D when on the highway. The difference is even less noticeable when both cars are at lower SOC.
I did a few 80-120kph (50-75mph) pulls with a fellow P85D owner and below 50%SOC, he would get something like a 5ft lead on me. Car have similar configuration (pano roof and 19in wheels). I don't know what's more surprising, the fact that my 85D is so fast.. of that the P85D is "so slow" (that's not slow!... )
Lets just say that if I would have bought a P85D instead of my 85D (I almost did), I would feel cheated. Especially since the power upgrade on the 85D. Now, the P85D used to have an advantage with its sportier suspension but I believe this was changed in recent builds.
But hey, in the end, we all own an amazing car and it's a first world problem
I did a few 80-120kph (50-75mph) pulls with a fellow P85D owner and below 50%SOC, he would get something like a 5ft lead on me. Car have similar configuration (pano roof and 19in wheels). I don't know what's more surprising, the fact that my 85D is so fast.. of that the P85D is "so slow" (that's not slow!... )
Lets just say that if I would have bought a P85D instead of my 85D (I almost did), I would feel cheated. Especially since the power upgrade on the 85D. Now, the P85D used to have an advantage with its sportier suspension but I believe this was changed in recent builds.
But hey, in the end, we all own an amazing car and it's a first world problem
I'd have to agree with the P85D owners here. I own a 85D and since the performance boost to 422HP, the car is barely slower than a P85D when on the highway. The difference is even less noticeable when both cars are at lower SOC.
I did a few 80-120kph (50-75mph) pulls with a fellow P85D owner and below 50%SOC, he would get something like a 5ft lead on me. Car have similar configuration (pano roof and 19in wheels). I don't know what's more surprising, the fact that my 85D is so fast.. of that the P85D is "so slow" (that's not slow!... )
Lets just say that if I would have bought a P85D instead of my 85D (I almost did), I would feel cheated. Especially since the power upgrade on the 85D. Now, the P85D used to have an advantage with its sportier suspension but I believe this was changed in recent builds.
But hey, in the end, we all own an amazing car and it's a first world problem
i took delivery of my p85d about a month ago, while I love the car, I do feel cheated that it can't reach its max HP and after reading your experiment, it's like adding salt on a wound
Similar threads
