US Market Situation and Outlook (Rob Stark's American Megathread)

[RobStark]

California Q3 2023 YTD Registrations

Japanese Brands Market Share 38.6%
American Brands Market Share 37.0%
European Brands Market Share 14.8%
Korean Brands Market Share 9.6%

Rivian passes Genesis.

1. Toyota........203,418 ...........,..........................15.0
2. Tesla.........183,278....................................13.5
3. Honda........129,312.........................................9.5
4. Ford...........105,831...........................................7.8
5. Chevrolet...92,769..........................................6.8
6. KIA.............66,355............................................4.9
7. Hyundai......57,282...........................................4.2
8. Merc Benz..53,019..........................................3.9
9. Nissan........52,963..........................................3.9
10. Subaru......49,487............................................3.7
11. BMW..........48,455............................................3.6
12. Lexus..........40,914..........................................3.0
13. Jeep............32,387..........................................2.4
14. Audi..............29,491.........................................2.2
15. Mazda..........28,187.........................................2.1
16. GMC.............26,184..........................................1.9
17. Volkswagen..25,634........................................1.9
18. RAM.............21,623...........................................1.6
19. Porsche........13,012...........................................1.0
20. Acura ...........11,828...........................................0.9
21. Volvo.............10,470..........................................0.8
22. Dodge..........9,917...........................................0.7
23. Cadillac.........9,065..........................................0.7
24. Land Rover ..8,715.........................................0.6
25. Rivian............6,740...........................................0.5
26. Genesis.........6,185...........................................0.5
27. Chrysler........5,328..........................................0.4
28. Infiniti............4,136..........................................0.3
29. Mini...............3,614..........................................0.3
30. Buick...............3,390..........................................0.3
31. Lincoln...........3,103...........................................0.3
32. Mitsubishi.....2,809..........................................0.2
33. Polestar........2,800..........................................0.2
34. Alfa Romeo....958...........................................0.1
35. Jaguar...........933...............................................0.1
36. Maserati.......715...............................................0.1
37. Other..............3,995.........................................0.3

Total..........................1,354,302................................100

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-23_FINAL.pdf

 

[Doggydogworld]

California Q3 2023 YTD Registrations

Japanese Brands Market Share 38.6%
American Brands Market Share 37.0%
European Brands Market Share 14.8%
Korean Brands Market Share 9.6%

Rivian passes Genesis.

1. Toyota........203,418 ...........,..........................15.0
2. Tesla.........183,278....................................13.5
3. Honda........129,312.........................................9.5
4. Ford...........105,831...........................................7.8
5. Chevrolet...92,769..........................................6.8
6. KIA.............66,355............................................4.9
7. Hyundai......57,282...........................................4.2
8. Merc Benz..53,019..........................................3.9
9. Nissan........52,963..........................................3.9
10. Subaru......49,487............................................3.7
11. BMW..........48,455............................................3.6
12. Lexus..........40,914..........................................3.0
13. Jeep............32,387..........................................2.4
14. Audi..............29,491.........................................2.2
15. Mazda..........28,187.........................................2.1
16. GMC.............26,184..........................................1.9
17. Volkswagen..25,634........................................1.9
18. RAM.............21,623...........................................1.6
19. Porsche........13,012...........................................1.0
20. Acura ...........11,828...........................................0.9
21. Volvo.............10,470..........................................0.8
22. Dodge..........9,917...........................................0.7
23. Cadillac.........9,065..........................................0.7
24. Land Rover ..8,715.........................................0.6
25. Rivian............6,740...........................................0.5
26. Genesis.........6,185...........................................0.5
27. Chrysler........5,328..........................................0.4
28. Infiniti............4,136..........................................0.3
29. Mini...............3,614..........................................0.3
30. Buick...............3,390..........................................0.3
31. Lincoln...........3,103...........................................0.3
32. Mitsubishi.....2,809..........................................0.2
33. Polestar........2,800..........................................0.2
34. Alfa Romeo....958...........................................0.1
35. Jaguar...........933...............................................0.1
36. Maserati.......715...............................................0.1
37. Other..............3,995.........................................0.3

Total..........................1,354,302................................100

https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-3Q-23_FINAL.pdf

It's the Q3 report, but lest anyone be confused those numbers are YTD. Tesla Q3 was 60,061, up considerably y/y but down from Q2. Tesla actually outsold perennial #1 Toyota brand in Q2, 69k to 67k. Toyota returned to #1 in Q3, 70k to 60k.

Tesla is the most CA-centric of OEMs, with 35-40% of US sales in their home state. It used to be 50%, though. The distribution within CA is uneven, too. Telsa has 30%+ share in some Bay Area counties vs. 13% overall in the state so far this year.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

It's the Q3 report, but lest anyone be confused those numbers are YTD. Tesla Q3 was 60,061, up considerably y/y but down from Q2. Tesla actually outsold perennial #1 Toyota brand in Q2, 69k to 67k. Toyota returned to #1 in Q3, 70k to 60k.

Tesla is the most CA-centric of OEMs, with 35-40% of US sales in their home state. It used to be 50%, though. The distribution within CA is uneven, too. Telsa has 30%+ share in some Bay Area counties vs. 13% overall in the state so far this year.

Tesla's over-represented in the San Gabriel Valley area. It's practically Palo Alto, but with plenty of corollas, civics, and minivans sprinkled in.

 

[RobStark]

It's the Q3 report, but lest anyone be confused those numbers are YTD.

"California Q3 2023 YTD Registrations"

How can any reasonable person be confused?

 

[RobStark]

Tesla actually outsold perennial #1 Toyota brand in Q2, 69k to 67k. Toyota returned to #1 in Q3, 70k to 60k.

Lest anyone be confused Tesla outsold Toyota brand in Q2 but not Toyota Motor Corporation which also includes Lexus.

 

[RobStark]

Tesla's Growth Nearly Stalls, Other EV Registrations Double In U.S.: September 2023 Sales

In September, new all-electric car registrations in the United States continued to increase, although the rate of year-over-year expansion recently decreased.

insideevs.com

 

[kpanda17]

Chinas LI Motors and now the RAM Charger will start confusing the public
Vehicles with medium sized batteries, large gas tank and a larger generator
They aren’t BEVs technically
They are bad for the environment
They will confuse the public into thinking they are EVs
Terrible direction

The 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger | Ram Electric Truck

Discover the 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger electric truck. Explore range capability, available charging options, using your smartphone as a key & more on this EV.

www.ramtrucks.com

 

[RobStark]

Chinas LI Motors and now the RAM Charger will start confusing the public
Vehicles with medium sized batteries, large gas tank and a larger generator
They aren’t BEVs technically
They are bad for the environment
They will confuse the public into thinking they are EVs
Terrible direction

The 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger | Ram Electric Truck

Discover the 2025 Ram 1500 Ramcharger electric truck. Explore range capability, available charging options, using your smartphone as a key & more on this EV.

www.ramtrucks.com

92 kWh battery is quite large.

If plugged in and used as electric for city driving and ICEv for long range driving PHEVs are significantly better than pure ICEv for human health and the environment.

If you price the PHEV at or below the ICEv you attract many who will not use the PHEV properly. If you price the PHEV significantly above ICEv after any government incentives you tend to filter out the people that would use the PHEV incorrectly.

In the used market, people who would use the PHEV correctly tend to outbid those that would use it incorrectly.

 

[kpanda17]

Reality problem, PHEVs are never plugged in

PHEVs are an almost 30 year old tech way past any positive use

The warming environment needs drastic counter measures now and pure EV are one of them

PHEVs were a game for better gas mileage
Pure EVs are for the environment

The PHEV with a large battery keeps rhe PHEV fraud going

There is no range issues
Charging is becoming everywhere

 

[RobStark]

Reality problem, PHEVs are never plugged in

View attachment 989987


PHEVs are an almost 30 year old tech way past any positive use

The warming environment needs drastic counter measures now and pure EV are one of them
View attachment 989989

PHEVs were a game for better gas mileage
Pure EVs are for the environment

The PHEV with a large battery keeps rhe PHEV fraud going

There is no range issues
Charging is becoming everywhere

The reality is most PHEV are purchased with heavy incentives. So people that can't or have no intention of plugging them in buy them because they are cheaper than ICE alternative.

Like PHEV owners in The Netherlands and UK where most of these studies are done showing no one plugs in. City slickers living in apartments with no garages that purchased PHEVs with heavy incentives rarely plug-in. Shocker.

Charging for trucks with pass through chargers in rural areas are almost non existent.

This is where the Ramcharger will shine. Rural folks towing long distances are not buying BEV pickups. That is the reality.

If PHEV technology is over 30 years old then BEV technology is over 100 years old.

 

[kpanda17]

I get sick when looking from my Tesla, the smoke coming from a PHEV tailpipe
This new version of PHEV is just a weird way of continuing the bad impact on the environment
We need pure EVs

Interesting how new ICEv advertisements are showing range which is a combination of the battery and gas tank
Their goal is to make pure EV range look bad
They are trying to create range anxiety
PHEVs use promote mpg
This is how bad it is right now

 

[RobStark]

2023 Consumer Reports Annual Auto Reliability

Mazel Tov! Tesla is now average.

 

[kpanda17]

“Movin on up…..”
Good news

 

[RobStark]

 

[EVNow]

2023 Consumer Reports Annual Auto Reliability

Mazel Tov! Tesla is now average.

View attachment 994754

Wow- didn’t expect Mercedes to be at the bottom !

 

[EVNow]

I get sick when looking from my Tesla, the smoke coming from a PHEV tailpipe
This new version of PHEV is just a weird way of continuing the bad impact on the environment

Yes - no need for PHEVs now … maybe 10 years back that was one way to cut emissions some what cheaply. I had Volt for a year or two waiting for 3 - and filled her up 2 times (they had a six month limit, IIRC). Even the 40 mile range was good enough for my daily commute and errands.

 

[kpanda17]

We’re in a time of falsehood
The general public is slowing buying into getting rid of ICEv for the environment but think hybrids are what they should do
As stated many times, the time of hybrids is long past and pure BEVs have been a now for 7-8 years

Crazy denial of BEVs by this falsehood

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

We’re in a time of falsehood
The general public is slowing buying into getting rid of ICEv for the environment but think hybrids are what they should do
As stated many times, the time of hybrids is long past and pure BEVs have been a now for 7-8 years

Crazy denial of BEVs by this falsehood

Actually, I think it's more that the automakers are marketing hybrids more to stem the tide of EV conversions. These past few years have seen the greatest number of hybrid models.

And then there's Toyota's "electrified" campaign that I'm sure has fooled quite a number of Toyota loyalists.

 

[kpanda17]

In the usa, there are a number of forces working against pure BEVs:
-There is lack of knowledge of BEVs, how they work, operate, etc in the non-Tesla public. The IRA did not stipulate education which is desperately needed.
-The IRA did not limit tax credits to pure BEVs as hybrids with a 7KW battery/hybrid qualifies for $7500, crazy.
-By design PHEV don’t require plug in which ICEv drivers like, they don’t want to charge.
-The non Tesla charging network has failed in giving non Tesla buyers confidence that there is a charging network, EA, EVgo, ChargePoint, etc. that will work for them.
-GM, Ford and Stellantis are following the gen public and now giving up promoting and primary investing in pure BEVs and promoting and reactivating hybrid manufacturing.
-Elon has polarized some of the public from purchasing the only viable BEV in the gen public’s eyes of a Tesla vehicle. A lot won’t buy from Elon.
-Bottom line the gen public does not seem to care at their core about the environment. They are not phased by the tailpipe poison coming out of even PHEVs.
It’s a sad time.

 

[Hiline]

In the usa, there are a number of forces working against pure BEVs:
-There is lack of knowledge of BEVs, how they work, operate, etc in the non-Tesla public. The IRA did not stipulate education which is desperately needed.
-The IRA did not limit tax credits to pure BEVs as hybrids with a 7KW battery/hybrid qualifies for $7500, crazy.
-By design PHEV don’t require plug in which ICEv drivers like, they don’t want to charge.
-The non Tesla charging network has failed in giving non Tesla buyers confidence that there is a charging network, EA, EVgo, ChargePoint, etc. that will work for them.
-GM, Ford and Stellantis are following the gen public and now giving up promoting and primary investing in pure BEVs and promoting and reactivating hybrid manufacturing.
-Elon has polarized some of the public from purchasing the only viable BEV in the gen public’s eyes of a Tesla vehicle. A lot won’t buy from Elon.
-Bottom line the gen public does not seem to care at their core about the environment. They are not phased by the tailpipe poison coming out of even PHEVs.
It’s a sad time.

Underlying this all is the lack of willingness to acknowledge the human impact on the environment and to do something to alleviate the problem. We aren't willing to sacrifice cheap and easy for the public good. We've been spoiled.