Used Teslas FSD module upgrade path?

[Rango]

Hi guys. So Tesla on their website have used (off lease) S models available for sale. When i go to check out there is NO option to upgrade to FSD computer at all. It just goes to payment option. I believe from what i've read here upgrade price to FSD would be $3k?

Tesla (Enhanced) Autopilot vs. Full Self-Driving: What's the difference now?

So few questions

1. How does one upgrade that to FSD threw tesla website? Are those AP1 only for sale or AP2 as well?

2. How does one know what version of AP tesla website sells? It's not really listed in specs. No cameras numbers either.

3. How does one upgrade to FSD if i buy threw private that has AP bought already. I'm assuming that's again $3k upgrade?
I've seen one very few with EAP and that actually costs more to upgrade then AP version, a $1k more based on the link above.

4. Does EAP have 8 cameras correct and what version of HW (2.0 or 2.5) is EAP?

Can you clarify all this for me as this is very confusing at least for me. Many thanks in advance.
I'm looking to buy used Tesla S that is capable to upgrade to FSD, meaning has full suite capable of just module swap.

 

[Cheburashka]

FSD doesn't actually exist. You can "buy" it after purchase for any AP 2.0+ car but it won't give you any additional features over EAP.

Enhanced Autopilot = 2.0+

Autopilot = 1.0

 

[Tam]

...1. How does one upgrade that to FSD threw tesla website? Are those AP1 only for sale or AP2 as well?...

If you already own the car, you can order through your account page if it's offered. There have been conflicting reports that some do have an option for their account page and some don't.

You can also call up on the phone to order.

...2. How does one know what version of AP tesla website sells? It's not really listed in specs. No cameras numbers either...

Used cars should list Autopilot which is AP1 for October 2014 to October 2016.

Or

Enhanced Autopilot which is AP2 or AP2.5 since October 2016.

...3. How does one upgrade to FSD if i buy threw private that has AP bought already. I'm assuming that's again $3k upgrade?
I've seen one very few with EAP and that actually costs more to upgrade then AP version, a $1k more based on the link above...

See question #1. Once your car is on your account page, you see whether you can order any upgrades from there. If not, please call over the phone.

If it's a private owner, you can ask the owner to send you the picture of the account page.

4. Does EAP have 8 cameras correct and what version of HW (2.0 or 2.5) is EAP?

Yes.

HW2.0 or 2.5 can be assigned with the cost as new and current cheaper AP or older and more expensive EAP,

 

[Rango]

Thank you guys. I'm referring to purchase of USED tesla S for someone that currently DOES NOT own a Tesla vehicle.
I want to purchase USED Tesla S with 8 cameras which i'm told is only version capable to be upgraded to FSD computer (same computer in model 3 HW3.0 i think) threw Tesla service dept? If i'm confusing something please clarify.

Isn't FSD hardware already in all models 3 (HW 3.0) ? that's the upgrade i think i'm referring to for model S of course?

Two scenarios i'm thinking of:

First scenario: Tesla website USED purchase and currently DO NOT own Tesla
Lets say i got to tesla.com/used and put in cart S85D there is no FSD option ($3k option mentioned in article) upgrade to add to cart. There is no details on what version of hardware and how many cameras this car has, i'm buying. They only list autopilot or enhanced autopilot which is like 2 cars out of many. So i'm buying blindly which could be AP1 for all i know?

Second scenario: Private party (autotrader, cars etc)
If i'm buying used model S from private party (autorader etc) what do i have to make sure it has hardware wise to be able to call Tesla and say i wanna upgrade to FSD module (i think thats HW3.0 current model 3 CPU) ?

For example this listing is for Enhanced auto pilot but what's confusing it says 4 cameras so this isn't FSD capable car as it's missing 4 cameras correct? FSD requires 8 cameras total?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/769943189/overview/

 

[Cheburashka]

Firstly, nobody knows what it will take to get FSD actually working since it doesn't exist anywhere.

If the car has Enhanced Autopilot, or cameras in the front turn signals, then theoretically it is upgreadable to FSD (per Elon Musk).

If the car has no cameras in the blinkers, then it is AP1 and cannot upgrade to FSD.

The car you linked is definitely AP2. You can see the cameras in the front/side blinker repeater.

All cars manufactured after Oct 2016 have AP2+, so that is another way to tell.

 

[Rango]

What about cameras count? I was under impression 4 is not enough and it needs 8 total for FSD capability?

I'm talking about Tesla car having capability of CPU module hardware swap without retrofitting entire car with new hardware like cameras etc. Something Elon said they won't do (ap1) ?

Elon keeps saying AP2 or higher that they just swap CPU module and upgrade firmware via OTA. That's their definition of FSD upgrade.

My confusion is tesla does not list what AP version they sell on their website. Buying cat in the bag?

It says autopilot or enhanced auto pilot so autopilot means AP1 and enhanced auto pilot means AP2?

but then article telarati article says they changed the terminology but i think that's only applicable to newly purchased cars?

Thank you again.

 

[Tam]

...For example this listing is for Enhanced auto pilot but what's confusing it says 4 cameras so this isn't FSD capable car as it's missing 4 cameras correct? FSD requires 8 cameras total?

By its birth year of 2017, this is not AP1 that has only camera.

This is AP2 that has physically 8 cameras but its originally, EAP was to use 4 out of 8 and not all 8. So the description is correct for 4 cameras according to the old pricing classification.

However, Tesla has grandfathered EAP to use all 8 instead of 4.

Current cheaper AP use the concept of 4 cameras instead of 8.

Current AP has:

1) TACC (smart cruise)
2) AutoSteer within a lane.

Those 2 functions don't need 8 cameras.

For new cars, to use 8 cameras, you have to pay for FSD so you can do Auto Lane Change, summon within 150 feet against heavy parking lot traffic...

...tesla.com/used...

You need to call Tesla up to arrange whether you can get what you want.

...Private party...

If it is not a commercial dealer, it might be wise to pay the private owner to upgrade all that you want.

Otherwise, you have to wait until you got all the paperwork (title/registration...) and transfer that car to your newly created Tesla Account Page and hope the upgrade option will be there or you'll be able to get an upgrade over the phone.

 

[Rango]

Aha thank you. That makes sense. So cameras are there just not active.So from

private party - i have to make sure it has cameras in side marker instead of emblem and is post Oct 2016 production correct?

and Tesla website? one has to call them as they do not list AP version on their website. They don't post pictures either so it's stock version pictures listed.

 

[Rango]

This is FSD module Elon showed today in autonomous day. This is the hardware swap i'm referring to when one purchase FSD package.

Notice no more Nvidia chips. Tesla chips now.

 

[Tam]

...What about cameras count? I was under impression 4 is not enough and it needs 8 total for FSD capability?

Zero camera: From 2012 to October 2016

8 physical cameras: From October 2014 to now. How many cameras that you can use is dependent on the classification of price and functions. Pay less for new AP for fewer functions and fewer access of numbers of cameras. Pay more for older EAP and FSD for more function all access to 8 physical cameras.

...ap1...

AP1 has only 1 camera and not upgradable to FSD.

...
Elon keeps saying AP2 or higher that they just swap CPU module and upgrade firmware via OTA. That's their definition of FSD upgrade...

AP1 has 1 camera and not upgradeable.

AP2, AP2.5, AP3.0... all have 8 cameras physically and upgradeable to FSD.

...
My confusion is tesla does not list what AP version they sell on their website. Buying cat in the bag?...

This 2014 Model S has no camera because it doesn't mention any Autopilot.

This 2016 Model S below has AP1 Autopilot because of its birth year 2016:

This 2016 Model S below has AP2 because it says Enhanced Autopilot

...autopilot means AP1 and enhanced auto pilot means AP2?

Yes. Compare them with birth year because 2014 to 2016 Autopilot is not the same as 2019 Autopilot. Different prices, different features, different hardware.

...changed the terminology...

Yes. Just like iPhone 5 is not the same as iPhone 6, Tesla keeps changing silently. 2 above 2016 Model S don't have the same level of technology.

 

[Tam]

...So cameras are there just not active.So from

private party - i have to make sure it has cameras in side marker instead of emblem and is post Oct 2016 production correct?...

True.

...one has to call them as they do not list AP version on their website...

It's not about versions because you can tell by the presence or absence for "Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot" and its birth year.

Some complain that Tesla refuses to upgrade AP2 to FSD and they had to go through hoops to get a waiver.

Call Tesla and arrange your FSD upgrade purchase prior to delivery and avoid the headache above.

 

[Tam]

This is FSD module Elon showed today in autonomous day.

Yes. Tesla says all who buy FSD will get this switch at no additional cost.

(Classic and AP1 are not upgradable but all AP2 and above are upgradable).

 

[Rango]

aha thank you very much. One more thing.

As long as i have 8 cameras why would i care what version of auto pilot i have when i give Elon $3k for FSD package upgrade he will swap CPU to one pictured above and i will have AP version 3 correct with firmware that enables all features that come on model 3.

At least that's my logic behind upgrade to FSD module. I guess i'm interested in beta testing FSD module and have no interest in anything that would prevent me from doing so like missing cameras or other obscure thing i may not know about now as i'm new to all this.

Do we know we can now upgrade to that FSD module for $3k or is this elon just saying so it will be soon available. Any of you guys upgrading to FSD package now or soon?

 

[Cheburashka]

Nobody has FSD.

Elon promises a lot of things ..

 

[Rango]

Nobody has FSD.

Elon promises a lot of things ..

So upgrade for FSD is not available yet. We're getting there. Not sure if you guys seen this but this is dev version of firmware

 

[Tam]

...As long as i have 8 cameras why would i care what version of auto pilot i have when i give Elon $3k for FSD package upgrade he will swap CPU to one pictured above and i will have AP version 3 correct with firmware that enables all features that come on model 3...

Exactly. Tesla says any version from October 2016 which are AP2, AP2.5.. that all have 8 cameras (physically) are all upgradable.

Don't ask me about the upgrade price. It has changed so many times since 2/28/2019 and I lost track of it!

People have been upgrading to FSD as in purchasing with different prices, but not the physical HW3 computer shown today.

 

[Tam]

So upgrade for FSD is not available yet. We're getting there. Not sure if you guys seen this but this is dev version of firmware

Money--yes. Function--no.

You can pay now and Tesla predicts that you'll get at the end of this year:

1) Traffic Lights and Stop Signs automatic compliance
2) Automatic city diving

Your referenced video software is not public version. It's a developer version which could be a Tesla test employee program or Early Access Program.

 

[Cheburashka]

So upgrade for FSD is not available yet. We're getting there. Not sure if you guys seen this but this is dev version of firmware

This isn't only in dev firmware. Mine does the same thing when approaching fairly slowly (stops at some lights and displays icon on dash). Will stop at some traffic lights. It doesn't always work and should not be relied on.

The firmware in the video has more features but is also obviously unreliable.

 

[ucmndd]

Seems like you’re getting closer to understanding, but someone should tell you that unless the car already has the full self driving option, it will cost you $5,000 to add it, not $3,000.

Also, if you really want to understand what you’re buying, use a third party site like ev-cpo.com that lists out Tesla’s inventory and used cars by specific options, hardware configuration, etc.

 

[Tam]

...Mine does the same thing when approaching fairly slowly (stops at some lights and displays icon on dash). Will stop at some traffic lights. It doesn't always work and should not be relied on...

That's pretty neat. It's now rarely-Traffic-Lights-automatic-compliance (because it runs red lights most of the time and rarely obeys the red lights).

That's progress after years of waiting for this moment since the October 2016 announcement!

And it's not the end of the year yet!