Very Difficult decision..Canceling my Sig X reservation

[Mark Z]

This business about shovels and lamps bugged me too, so I grabbed a tape measure and a push broom and opened up the back of my Pilot.

Sure I could hypothetically fold down the 2nd row and haul some bigger items. I can think of one time in the past year that I've had to do that. I'm sure others need the extra space on a regular basis and are very disappointed. But let's not get carried away and forget our geometry.

For comparison, let me add two photos from the Launch Event. All 150 photos are here: Model X Launch Event | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
If there is enough space for the passenger's arm, that opening may help some owners of the Seven Seat Interior. Just make sure to protect the highly reflective plastic seat backs from scratches.

 

[engle]

As an avid Tesla supporter, I am disappointed at all the responses to the lack of cargo capacity as "well it's not for hauling lumber".

The current configuration is a MUCH BIGGER MISS than not being able to haul 24' lumber.

With the second row all the way forward, you only have 60". This excludes much more than large hauling jobs. It also excludes floor lamps, long rakes, a single high-back dining room chair...etc. That is even much less than a compact hatchback car.

I would suggest that people who really want folding seats (and can wait on Tesla time) do so because I guarantee as people realize how limiting the current config is, they will sell very few 7 seat versions. I predict the 6 seater will be by far the most popular, at least you could fit some of the items above.

How embarrassed would you be if you had to call a friend with a Civic hatchback to help you bring home a floor lamp because it will not fit in your X?

My guess is they wanted folding seats (at least as an option) but they are so far behind schedule and had to go with what they had. What they basically made is a really really sweet people tram with less utility than a Mini Clubman. In the current configuration, calling it an SUV/CUV or even a Mini Van is ridiculous.

So disappointed after waiting years, could have upgraded my old SUV for something more efficient a long time ago.

X reservation 16,448

Many floor lamps are not one continuous piece of tubing and you can simply unscrew them into two cylinders and they'll fit fine in the back of the X. I think a long rake will definitely fit in the 6-seat config that I'm getting. So will the single dining room chair if it's on it's side. (I was told the center console is easily removable. I just tweeted Elon this question, too.)

If you weren't able to go to the Launch Event, at least if you keep your X reservation 16,448 for a few months longer, you'll be able to get to spend some time in the X and drive it to see if it meets your use cases or not.

I think no matter what TSLA did they "wouldn't be able to please all the reservationists all the time" since we're a really picky bunch with really high expectations.

We had a Model S reservation made in 2011. It was a tough decision, but we cancelled because back then the S didn't offer:

1. 4x4,
2. Mercedes type Distronic cruise control, blind spot, parking, etc., and
3. the back seat head room was insufficient for our 6' son.

An engineer at the Model S Beta Drive event who led my factory tour told me they were working on #2 so we cancelled. The people who want a folding 2nd row seat are smart to cancel, too. I'm pretty sure at some point TSLA will offer it if the demand is there. Had I known it was going to take 3.5 years after I reserved the X on the website on day 1 to launch, then I would have leased an S while I waited instead of an ICE. For me personally, the X P90D offers everything I could have dreamed of, and much, much, more, since I'm never going to use it to haul large stuff from Home Depot. I'll just have the larger stuff delivered.

I think I'll also keep my 2000 ML 320 ICE around as a back-up SUV just in case plugged into a trickle charger. It was one of the few built with a huge "Skyview Top" that slides open exposing a large percentage of the roof from above the front seats thru the second row. This offers "infinite" height capability. I've ported trees in pots that are 10 feet high through the roof with this Skyview Top open before on local roads. :biggrin:

 

[tonyinc]

I am also considering an XC90 T8, and it is electric like a Chevy Volt (or more realistically, a plug-in Ford CMax) is electric. That is it can go about 20 +/- miles on electricity alone. Gas drives the front tires and electric drives the rear. If you are on a long trip, you have a front wheel drive SUV, around town you have a rear wheel drive electric SUV. In the snow or off-road, you are all of the above.

Same here, the T8 is actually a very elegant solution. For my purposes, 90% + of driving could be fully electric (granted not nearly as fast or quite as efficient as a Tesla). The other 10% of the time since the T8 has a hybrid electric engine in the front, the 4 cylinder engine is very efficient.

So for my lifestyle probably 80% as efficient as I would be with a Tesla, but with NO compromises for:

Range
Cargo
Offroad

It even has all of the active safety features and self parking etc...

And before I get slammed for "getting a car with a smokestack" or "ancient technology"; please don't cast stones lest ye shall be judged for not going with a Leaf over a Tesla or even taking public transport.

I still would MUCH rather get the X, but until I get some real info or (real, believable) guidance on options or delivery timelines from Tesla after YEARS of hopeful expection, I wonder how much carbon I could offset by not waiting to replace my old SUV. If I wait another year, any offset I am trying to gain is lost by not upgrading.

- - - Updated - - -

Same here, the T8 is actually a very elegant solution. For my purposes, 90% + of driving could be fully electric (granted not nearly as fast or quite as efficient as a Tesla). The other 10% of the time since the T8 has a hybrid electric engine in the front, the 4 cylinder engine is very efficient.

So for my lifestyle probably 80% as efficient as I would be with a Tesla, but with NO compromises for:

Range
Cargo
Offroad

It even has all of the active safety features and self parking etc...

And before I get slammed for "getting a car with a smokestack" or "ancient technology"; please don't cast stones lest ye shall be judged for not going with a Leaf over a Tesla or even taking public transport.

I still would MUCH rather get the X, but until I get some real info or (real, believable) guidance on options or delivery timelines from Tesla after YEARS of hopeful expection, I wonder how much carbon I could offset by not waiting to replace my old SUV. If I wait another year, any offset I am trying to gain is lost by not upgrading.

Oh yah probably $25K cheaper.

 

[ZachShahan]

If I had a Sig X reservation, I'd be canceling now. Folding rear-seats are a must-have for me, too.

I completely understand that many people don't care about folding seats; and like OP I am honestly happy for them. And I can see some reasons why Tesla may have gone with one configuration before another to get the car out; I'm not upset with Tesla for offering non-folding seats, at least at first. (On the other hand, after being told they were coming, putting down serious money and then waiting for a few years, I don't think it's hard to see why some are a little disappointed and it hurts to cancel).

Not that it really matters, but as an aside: What I don't understand is people that sound shocked that some of us really do haul stuff in our cars. Even expensive cars. The price of the car doesn't matter, it's still the car I'm driving, and if I have to haul something I'm going to use it. It's a rare week where I don't fold down the rear seat of our Model S - which happens to be able to haul much longer stuff than the X can. (Yeah, yeah, it depends on the shape of the cargo, how many passengers you have, etc). I carry stuff a lot more than I carry passengers. I don't have any problem believing that some people don't carry a lot of cargo; why do some have trouble believing that others do? It seems odd, but is of no real consequence.​

Fortunately I don't have a Sig reservation, so I'm going to hold on to mine; and likely defer when it comes up. Maybe that will give me as long as a year to wait and see what happens. Maybe Tesla will offer a folding seat (they likely wouldn't say now if they were working on it, as they don't want everybody to hold off and wait for it). Maybe my needs will change - for example, if our parents get to where they have to sell their cars, having a vehicle with really easy access for passengers with mobility issues may suddenly become a priority. We shall see.

(I already have two Teslas, so it might be easier for me to remain serene as I wait for something that fits my needs better).

I also don't really understand it. I assume it's either 1) people projecting their own use cases onto almost everyone else, or 2) people being overly defensive about Tesla's decision.

I remember when this crisis ("seatgate") came up, I couldn't think of many examples of it being an issue, so asked Bonnie what she need the seats to fold for (out of pure curiosity). She gave a number of examples and we've seen dozens more in these long threads. None of them apply to me (yet), but I don't see how others can say that they aren't important/regular for some individuals. I agree that a $300 trailer seems sensible for some people, but that it still doesn't work/solve the problem for others.

Interesting thread, indeed.

I still can't imagine personally needing the extra 10 or so inches folded seats offer, but I can see how some individuals do.

 

[BajaSurBoy]

I am sure Tesla's current design is the best they can offer.

Because other car companies can fold their seat, it is naive to think that Tesla cannot.

It is still a mystery because Tesla doesn't tell us what's the stumbling block is which creates lots of speculations and now, heartbreaks for some.

Name One car company that has produced a completely free standing folding seat that meets recent crash test standards. Every folding seat I am aware of has The seat belts attached to a pillar. The Falcon doors are the problem with the seats not folding. I sympathize With X sig holders that are canceling because the X does not meet their needs. Fortunately for me 99% of the time it will be driven with 2nd row pushed back for max legroom and 3rd row folded flat. I saw a tweet today from Elon that you can have a roof rack rated to 140 MPH, maybe that would solve some peoples issues. Tesla Model Xs Recognize Each Other, Other Elon Tweets

 

[JohnSnowNW]

We looked at the Volvo XC90 T8 as a back-up in case the Model X wouldn't work, for whatever reason, but the efficiency after the electrons run out is pretty awful, and the electrons don't flow long enough.

 

[dhanson865]

I can not wait to see ours with a 40' glider trailer behind it

something like this?

 

[dhanson865]

What I don't understand is that the Model X is about half an inch longer than the QX60, is almost five inches wider than the QX60, and is only about 4 inches shorter than the QX60. And yet the QX60 feels bigger, more comfortable for adults in the third row, and much higher off the ground for better visibility than the Model X. Why is that?

I guess you don't know the Tesla Model X has height adjustable suspension. Sitting on the stage to make it look racy (and because looking at it from below will skew the appearance) they probably had it on low or very low. Put it on high or very high and it'll sit up like other SUVs.

 

[Beryl]

Same here, the T8 is actually a very elegant solution. For my purposes, 90% + of driving could be fully electric (granted not nearly as fast or quite as efficient as a Tesla). The other 10% of the time since the T8 has a hybrid electric engine in the front, the 4 cylinder engine is very efficient.

Have you compared its "autopilot" features with those existing and promised for the MS (and expected on the MX)?

 

[Drucifer]

Have you compared its "autopilot" features with those existing and promised for the MS (and expected on the MX)?

It has lane keeping assist, collision avoidance (vehicle, pedestrian bicyclist in front) also turn collision avoidance (auto braking if attempting to turn into oncoming traffic), adaptive cruise (similar to TACC), road departure seatbelt pensioning and seat configuration, and a heads up display. While I wouldn't call it "autopilot", because it isn't, it will be on the vehicle at the time you receive it.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/safety...but-with-two-world-first-safety-technologies/

 

[omarsultan]

Based on Elon's tweets this AM, looks like the smaller battery will not be available for about a year...

 

[EchoDelta]

I wanted to thank these forum member cornerstones for sharing their insight and journey and keeping level headed about it all - Nigel and al, and AO, thx!

 

[EchoDelta]

I measured my CR-V ......

It seems you and I have similar paths in suv land. The 98-99 CRV , --- those that don't own it find hard to believe--- , is full of incredibly smart and versatile internal seating folding, disassembly; a very smart hatch opening configuration, internal compartment height etc. while other toyotas, benzs, and one or other Italian brand has adorned the garage the CRV still earns its keep.
I've also struggled with an efficient and versatile replacement; and I'm also hopeful the X can be it.

 

[MikeBur]

I would call Tesla sales, I am sure there is a waiting list to get a signature for when others cancel.

Apologies if this has been answered already, though asked this in sales showroom today and I offered to do this, plonk down the 40k, etc and they said Corp had given guidance yesterday that they are *not* moving production orders onto sig list. Obviously, this is feedback from one person at a showroom, so caveat emptor, though they wouldn't accept my cash, or add me to any waiting list for bumping up...

 

[MorrisonHiker]

It seems you and I have similar paths in suv land. The 98-99 CRV , --- those that don't own it find hard to believe--- , is full of incredibly smart and versatile internal seating folding, disassembly; a very smart hatch opening configuration, internal compartment height etc. while other toyotas, benzs, and one or other Italian brand has adorned the garage the CRV still earns its keep.
I've also struggled with an efficient and versatile replacement; and I'm also hopeful the X can be it.

I agree. The utility provided over the years had been amazing. I actually have one of the very first '97 models delivered in the US. I pre-ordered it before it was released (sound familiar?) and waited months for it to arrive. At the time there was nothing like it in the market except for the much smaller RAV4. There was almost no information about it on the internet so it was hard to know exactly what I would be getting. I could only hope it would have the features I needed. I had friends in Japan who sent me brochures which I scanned in and posted online so others could get more info. Very similar to the X and lack of information before ordering! Most of the features of the Japanese model made it to the States, including the cargo floor that is removable and becomes a picnic table. The camping shower never made it. Lol.

 

[rogbmw]

Same here, the T8 is actually a very elegant solution. For my purposes, 90% + of driving could be fully electric (granted not nearly as fast or quite as efficient as a Tesla). The other 10% of the time since the T8 has a hybrid electric engine in the front, the 4 cylinder engine is very efficient.
So for my lifestyle probably 80% as efficient as I would be with a Tesla, but with NO compromises for:
Range
Cargo
Offroad
It even has all of the active safety features and self parking etc...
I still would MUCH rather get the X, but until I get some real info or (real, believable) guidance on options or delivery timelines from Tesla after YEARS of hopeful expection, I wonder how much carbon I could offset by not waiting to replace my old SUV. If I wait another year, any offset I am trying to gain is lost by not upgrading.

Like I posted earlier, we have both an X reservation (20x), and an XC90 T8 reservation. What ever we choose, it will be the wifemobile as I drive the S. We stopped by the Volvo place yesterday to look again at the XC90 now that we have seen the X, and there was a guy who had picked up his XC90 T6 on Monday of this week and he loves it. Most of her driving around is 25 - 30 miles or less on average. Plus, the only bad thing now is the lack of superchargers here in the southeast. We live just outside of Orlando, and go to Atlanta on a regular basis, and to be honest the current the supercharger network is not convenient for that route at the present time - thus the need for something other than just an EV for that trip. Yesterday I went on the Tesla sight, and priced out an X exactly how we would want it using the S ordering information, then adding $5000 as Elon said to come up with an estimated price, then deducted the federal rebate. The XC90 T8 we have on order, with the federal rebate comes out to almost exactly $30,000 less. We reserved our X the night of the reveal a couple of years ago, and would love to have it - just have to mull over the comparisons between the 2 and see what best fits our (her) needs.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Like I posted earlier, we have both an X reservation (20x), and an XC90 T8 reservation.

Did you order through the Overseas Delivery program? The free trip for two to Sweden is an unforgettable, priceless perk from what I've heard.

I almost ordered one of the first of the 1927 Limited Edition 2016 models but decided not to since it wasn't offered as a T8

 

[Yggdrasill]

I agree. The utility provided over the years had been amazing. I actually have one of the very first '97 models delivered in the US. I pre-ordered it before it was released (sound familiar?) and waited months for it to arrive. At the time there was nothing like it in the market except for the much smaller RAV4. There was almost no information about it on the internet so it was hard to know exactly what I would be getting. I could only hope it would have the features I needed. I had friends in Japan who sent me brochures which I scanned in and posted online so others could get more info. Very similar to the X and lack of information before ordering! Most of the features of the Japanese model made it to the States, including the cargo floor that is removable and becomes a picnic table. The camping shower never made it. Lol.

I'd still be driving a '98 CR-V if it hadn't been totaled last year. It certainly served me well. I once ended up at a 45% angle (right side of the car down) in a ditch on a snowy road, and I managed to reverse out of it. There aren't many similarly sized cars with more ground clearence (though later model years reduced this substantially). And I've carried a lot of different large items in it. I replaced it with a 2009 Hyundai Elantra as an interim car until I could get a Model X, and it has also served me well. It actually has similar cargo capacity to a Model S, and not that much less than the CR-V. And going from ~9,5 l/100 km (or 26 MPG) to ~6 l/100 km (or 39 MPG) didn't hurt. Of course, it doesn't have the same ground clearence or AWD, but it has fancy features like outdoor temperature sensor, radio control on the steering wheel and A/C.

The car accident is part of the reason why I want a Model X. I'd like a very safe car. And a car like the CR-V rolls over extremely easily in a car accident, which is exactly what happened.

 

[tonyinc]

Like I posted earlier, we have both an X reservation (20x), and an XC90 T8 reservation. What ever we choose, it will be the wifemobile as I drive the S. We stopped by the Volvo place yesterday to look again at the XC90 now that we have seen the X, and there was a guy who had picked up his XC90 T6 on Monday of this week and he loves it. Most of her driving around is 25 - 30 miles or less on average. Plus, the only bad thing now is the lack of superchargers here in the southeast. We live just outside of Orlando, and go to Atlanta on a regular basis, and to be honest the current the supercharger network is not convenient for that route at the present time - thus the need for something other than just an EV for that trip. Yesterday I went on the Tesla sight, and priced out an X exactly how we would want it using the S ordering information, then adding $5000 as Elon said to come up with an estimated price, then deducted the federal rebate. The XC90 T8 we have on order, with the federal rebate comes out to almost exactly $30,000 less. We reserved our X the night of the reveal a couple of years ago, and would love to have it - just have to mull over the comparisons between the 2 and see what best fits our (her) needs.

How long did they tell you it would be for the T8? I was told they would be getting them in at my local dealer mid to late Nov, but I did not reserve one. I wanted to wait on the X. I too am trying to mull it over. At least with the T8 you can believe what the specs/capabilities of the car are. They published all the specs months ago.

This is what is so frustrating. I REALLY REALLY want the X, but after YEARS of waiting, the specs/capabilities/deliveries are still left to people in forums to guess at... and the car has already been released.

Very close to just forgetting about the X and deciding if the S will work for me or if I should go with the T8.

After years for coulds and shoulds and "probably in the future", and the same after the "launch" the disappointment I feel that it probably (who knows really) won't meet my needs, is immense and I don't think I could take any more. If I hang in there and it ends up being another year for my production res # to come up, I could not take it. Meanwhile my old SUV stays around when it could have been replaced with something much better.

I hate to describe it as heartbreaking, but that's kind of what it feels like. At some point Tesla will not be able to treat their loyalists like this let alone the car buying public in general.

 

[rogbmw]

How long did they tell you it would be for the T8? I was told they would be getting them in at my local dealer mid to late Nov, but I did not reserve one. I wanted to wait on the X. I too am trying to mull it over. At least with the T8 you can believe what the specs/capabilities of the car are. They published all the specs months ago. This is what is so frustrating. I REALLY REALLY want the X, but after YEARS of waiting, the specs/capabilities/deliveries are still left to people in forums to guess at... and the car has already been released.
Very close to just forgetting about the X and deciding if the S will work for me or if I should go with the T8.

We ordered the X the night of the reveal several years ago, and placed an order for a T8 this summer. We have a scheduled delivery date on our T8 in December, so time to decide.....