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Very disappointing first week with Model X

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,291
UK, Milton Keynes
Tesla’s QC is inconsistent at best. Our 2018 MX had a spot of black paint on the hood about a quarter in diameter. How does that make it through QC? Yes they fixed it and yes the St. Louis SC has been great. That does not excuse the lack of QC.

That being said I love my MX. I would still get one despite 1 service appointment per month since purchase.

But there are zero excuses for the level or lack of QC that Tesla has demonstrated thus far.

Tesla is attempting to go mainstream with the model 3 and people who are not enthusiasts will not tolerate QC at this level.

That is just a fact.

I agree with your post except the last part about Model 3 owners being somehow more picky than people spending $100K+ on their car. IME the more expensive and premium a car is, the more owners will have high expectations and be critical of faults. This very thread and forum in general is living proof of that! I hardly even looked at our other $40K car on delivery and couldn't care less if the paint and panel gaps are not all perfect (and they weren't either). On the X I looked at everything in close detail simply because of the expense and interest in the car.
 

Cagey1

New Member
May 3, 2018
3
1
Lakewood Ranch, Fl.
This is crazy. I read about people picking up their MX with these kind of issues and some people pick it up without any issues. I picked mine up 2 weeks ago and found nothing wrong. I feel like there are 2 production lines in the factory or maybe 2 different shifts of manufacturing people with different quality standards.

I agree, picked up my X two weeks ago and have no issues and the service/support has been great!
 

VikH

Supporting Member
Nov 23, 2015
1,025
857
Midwest, USA
8. This was VERY bothersome. The falcon door closes and rests on our second row seat in the area of the shoulder rest so now the leather is creased and has a very nice carbon fiber imprint on it--ONLY on the passenger side so it appears to be missaligned. My concern is that the door is going to start ripping apart the leather.

Tesla’s QC is inconsistent at best. Our 2018 MX had a spot of black paint on the hood about a quarter in diameter. How does that make it through QC? Yes they fixed it and yes the St. Louis SC has been great. That does not excuse the lack of QC.


These issues are both bizarre. I have never heard of a spot of paint on a car and never heard of the FWDs rubbing on the seats. Has anyone else heard about these?
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,499
2,369
SF Bay Area, CA
I am going to call you out on this. Tesla Maintenance plans are (mostly) optional, and if you look at what they do, apart from the Battery Coolant replacement, everything else in it is relatively simple and mundane, such as rotating tires, key fob battery, wiper blades, etc. That is a constant for any car (ICE or EV alike).

Just to further call out your bluff, for a brand-new BMW X6 M (comparable in price & performance to Model X 100D or P100D), 4 year maintenance plan from BMW costs $6,049, whereas a it's only $2,750 for Model X. Furthermore, the BMW has less than half of Tesla's powertrain warranty, and much higher repair costs and fuel costs.

Please do not make false claims that just add to the noise of public ignorance about Tesla/EV cars.
I did not make any false claims. The prices are listed right there on Tesla's web site. On NONE of my cars, have I ever paid that much for maintenance going by the individual service costs (e.g. $475, $725, and $475) each year or $1550 / 3 = $516.67 per year. Nor did maintenance costs for covered items hit that 4th year price of $850 or whatever's covered by the 4-year plan $2325 / 4 = $581.25.

Rotating tires is of minimal cost. Key fob batteries I can buy myself for $1.50 for 2 from Daiso. Wiper blades for the 3 on my car (from Honda dealers, ironically) were <$40 in total for all 3. (Don't have receipts in front of me.) Multi-point inspections are free at Nissan dealers. It's right in the maintenance booklet. (e.g. page 13 of https://owners.nissanusa.com/conten.../2013/2013-LEAF-service-maintenance-guide.pdf) Cabin filter I did myself.
mpi.png

As for BMW X6 M, I wouldn't buy or lease one of those money pits.
 
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cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,499
2,369
SF Bay Area, CA
I'm surprised you would find a Leaf more attractive than an X?

You also have no battery issues?
Yes on the 1st. But yeah, the Leaf is a bit odd looking, as well. I was quite amused when the resemblance to Jar Jar Binks was pointed out to me: Star Trek related specials/documentaries discussion. :)

No, on the latter. I lost my 1st capacity bar in Nov 2017. I'm still only down 1. I posted about this a few days ago: Normal Temp Bars Level on Gen 1 Leaf - My Nissan Leaf Forum. 1st bar loss at 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses - Page 27 - My Nissan Leaf Forum. From Leaf Spy, my SOH is holding around 83ish to 86%, so I'm still awhile away from losing another bar.

My 5 year/60K capacity warranty expired a few days ago. I would've needed to be down 4 bars (about 30% capacity loss) before expiration to be eligible for a free replacement. Won't happen in my climate w/my revision of battery. In Phoenix? Yes, easy. 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses - Page 14 - My Nissan Leaf Forum has the same build month as mine. He lost his 4th bar on 8/23/16.

That said, lack of battery thermal management on Leaf sucks. It's obvious (provided you have your original pack), that Teslas do FAR better in terms of degradation, esp. in hotter climates than Leafs.

Side note: The 30 kWh Leaf batteries were doing VERY badly and even worse than the 24 kWh "lizard" pack (best one, so far) in '15 Leafs. 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses - Page 108 - My Nissan Leaf Forum I kept adding entries. I think #18 isn't there.

Then, a few weeks ago, Nissan issued a firmware update for the 30 kWh cars relating to the capacity indicated on the dash and probably Leaf Spy: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses - Page 122 - My Nissan Leaf Forum. It will be interesting to see what the results of that are. There are many possibilities, some possibly not good for the drivers. Time will tell...
 
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MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,388
18,763
USA
What's up w/the personal attacks? You seem to be projecting your own views onto others. Please review what I pointed to at YouYou Xue crashed while on autopilot (aka Model 3 Road Trip), specifically The psychology of fanboys, explained by a professional | GamesRadar+.

Not only are some of items I bolded untrue, I never said any of those. As for 3rd bulleted item, CR updates their reliability ratings once a year based upon a 12 month window that their survey covers and a shorter length for the latest model year. I pointed to the most recent findings and that of the year before.

You seem intent on attacking the messenger because they don't meet your confirmation biases.

I don't keep score and don't need internet validation but I am observant of the fact that approximately 75% of my disagrees come from non Tesla owners and you are probably half of those. I will admit that makes me a little snarkier but not to the point of being personal.

My problem with non owners, PARTICULARLY IN REGARDS TO AUTOPILOT is they cannot speak from authority or practical experience. They "think" things work a certain when they don't. Media picks up this feedback and regurgitates it as fact. A "few" owners having issues magnifies to "substantial" owners have issues. This hurts Tesla, their owners, the EV mission and vehicle autonomy.

You are free of course to say what you want and when you want but it does appear odd to myself and others that you would spend so much time on an enthusiast forum for a brand you dislike and have no interest in their success. What do you hope to ultimately achieve? Not having experience means not having credibility with owners. Not being personal, just the objective truth.

Does anyone from TMC frequent Chevy forums, Nissan forums, BMW forums - don't own any of those vehicles, don't care to own any of those vehicles and just berate the downsides of x vehicle ownership? Those would be trolls by common internet definition.

I consider myself a fan but not a fanboy. I'll call things out I dislike for honest discourse.
 

cwerdna

Active Member
Jul 11, 2012
3,499
2,369
SF Bay Area, CA
My problem with non owners, PARTICULARLY IN REGARDS TO AUTOPILOT is they cannot speak from authority or practical experience. They "think" things work a certain when they don't. Media picks up this feedback and regurgitates it as fact.
I will agree with you on that.
You are free of course to say what you want and when you want but it does appear odd to myself and others that you would spend so much time on an enthusiast forum for a brand you dislike and have no interest in their success. What do you hope to ultimately achieve? Not having experience means not having credibility with owners. Not being personal, just the objective truth.
Did I ever say Tesla was a brand I dislike? Just because I'm not a fanboy or in agreement most of the time with you or other errr.. fans doesn't mean I dislike Tesla.

I am annoyed that the company is so much about hype and am perplexed by the stock, but TSLA isn't the only weird momentum stock.

I am also annoyed about their communications style of "say something and let people's imaginations run wild", which has led to a lot of misinformation, misconceptions and confusion, in some cases (e.g. people totally overestimating autopilot's abilities or when "FSD" might arrive). I also question their long-term durability testing and parts validation or validation once a part's been updated/changed. I've given examples at automotive reliability and durability testing for some other OEMs.

As for "no interest in their success"? I never said that either. FWIW, I on and off have bullish positions on the stock or via derivatives (options). I am not going to join the "cult of Elon" and say Elon can do no wrong. No thanks. I don't even do that for cars/brands which I would consider myself a fan or fanboy of. I'm a realist.

Maybe I haven't posted this here or elsewhere as my memory is foggy and I'm having trouble searching, so I'll say it here. Tesla has an unmatched DC fast charging network in the US and probably Europe. In the US, they've done DC fast charging right. The efforts from other OEMs and players sucks, in comparison.

Obviously, their hype machine, marketing, Elon, etc. has gotten them a ton of brand recognition (I have numerous experienced many anecdotal instances of this, sometimes to my dismay) and generally, a great brand image. They produce consumer EVs that have until recently been unmatched in range (and for numerous versions, still unmatched) and are still unmatched in performance.

The styling of the S is fine and it's probably the most attractive shipping EV out there. The 3 is ok except I don't like the very front of the nose. Deal beaker? Not sure.

While I question the company's sustainability (having lost over $5 billion net, so far and having somewhere in the order of $10 billion debt, IIRC), they seem to be able to keep the $ coming in. Tesla really has moved the EV industry forward and forced so many automakers to compete and produce better EVs w/more range than if Tesla didn't exist. It would be a big loss if Tesla went under.

As for the bolded part, reporting single anecdotal experiences about reliability is too small a sample size. CR used to state they required a minimum of 100 responses for a given model year of a given model to have sufficient data. It's not clear what their minimum is now. As I already posted earlier at Car Reliability Histories, you can see what the average problem rates are. If one system has problems for 10% of owners, that's FAR worse than average for any system for a 1 or 2 year old car. Yet, that could mean 9 people here say "no problem" and 1 guy says "yeah, that gave me trouble".

It takes MANY anecdotal reports to add up something that is statistically valid.

Whether or not I own or lease a vehicle has no relationship to the results of a vehicle reliability survey.

I already said I have interest in EVs, PHEVs and alternative fuel vehicles. There still is a possibility I may buy/lease a Tesla one day. It just won't be an X, at least not in its current form.

BTW, if I didn't care about the 3, I wouldn't have spent at least 20+ minutes sitting inside, poking around and trying out the UI and stereo when one was present at the Silicon Valley (San Jose) Auto Show in January.

If the 3 had good reliability so far, I would've given it a few more months and possibly put in my deposit (knowing full well I'd be in for a long wait). So far, it's not at that point yet, for me. It's also unfortunate some of the other paths they took which I don't like (e.g. everything on the center touchscreen and not even an optional HUD).
 
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jtdiddy

Member
Mar 31, 2016
298
208
Irvine CA
@cwerdna, looks are subjective so no point in arguing with u on that. I personally think the X is a damn beautiful car, especially with the 22" rims on it.

it also seems u cherry pick alot of negative things to confirm ur bias and ignore other great things like (1) 5 star safety, (2) qualifies for heavy car tax deduction, (3) amazing storage and still fits 7, (4) FWD have been shown to be more practical and just way cooler than regular doors, (5) fastest electric SUV, (6) auto presenting and all doors closing features

Also, the X has basically become a status symbol. For certain people, that matters.

i can go on and on but i rather be out driving my X and enjoying it rather than writing about it on a forum
 

spectrum

Member
Jun 17, 2018
479
372
Atlanta
I did not make any false claims. The prices are listed right there on Tesla's web site. On NONE of my cars, have I ever paid that much for maintenance going by the individual service costs (e.g. $475, $725, and $475) each year or $1550 / 3 = $516.67 per year. Nor did maintenance costs for covered items hit that 4th year price of $850 or whatever's covered by the 4-year plan $2325 / 4 = $581.25.

Rotating tires is of minimal cost. Key fob batteries I can buy myself for $1.50 for 2 from Daiso. Wiper blades for the 3 on my car (from Honda dealers, ironically) were <$40 in total for all 3. (Don't have receipts in front of me.) Multi-point inspections are free at Nissan dealers. It's right in the maintenance booklet. (e.g. page 13 of https://owners.nissanusa.com/conten.../2013/2013-LEAF-service-maintenance-guide.pdf) Cabin filter I did myself.

Three things:
  1. No one in their right mind would ever compare the cost of owning a Tesla Model X vs the cost of owning a Nissan Leaf. One is a luxury, mid/full-size performance SUV, and the other is an economy city car. That's like saying that, because the cost of owning and maintaining a Private Jet is higher than the cost of owning a Toyota Corolla, the Corolla is a way better method of transportation. They are not even in the same class.
  2. The BMW X6 M is very much in the same league as a Model X, in terms of size, looks, features and performance. Based on all other vehicles in its class, the Model X has a far lower cost of ownership and maintenance.
  3. Those maintenance charges from Tesla are optional. Perhaps your vast research never showed that. You can replace the wiper blades yourself on a Tesla. You can change the key fob batteries for $1.50 on a Tesla. You don't have to get the maintenance plan.
As for BMW X6 M, I wouldn't buy or lease one of those money pits.

Perhaps you don't hate Teslas — you just hate expensive cars in general?
 

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