Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)

[hcsharp]

Was having a drink after work with a very level-headed colleague (who drives a Toyota Corolla with almost 200,000 miles on it), and mentioned that Tesla was looking to charge me $2,400 for 4 years/50,000 miles -- which covers everything that might go wrong for whatever reason, including towing, and provide service at my house whenever possible. Without missing a beat, he said "that's a no-brainer."

Just a data point from a neutral third party.

I call BS on that story. You didn't even ask a valid question. The maintenance fee doesn't cover everything that goes wrong on the car. The warranty covers most of that. Is your friend aware of the minimal maintenance requirements for EVs? I guarantee you he didn't spend anywhere near $2,400 in the first 50k. My wife had a Toyota Corolla and put 160,000 miles on it in 7 years. She spent less than $2,000 on that car including all the oil changes, brake jobs, and all the other maintenance and consumables including wipers and coolant, towing, etc. (thank you Quicken). Not including tires. That's it. She sold it last year for half of what she paid for it.

Now she's being asked to pay for service at nearly 4x that rate for a car that's billed as being far cheaper to maintain. How many drinks did your friend have before you sprung the question?

 

[brianman]

If the base price had been $2000 more and Tesla gave 4 years free maintenance, would that be any different to you?

I didn't cancel, but for me that makes a huge difference. For me it's more about the principle than the dollar amount, on this one.

Same story with the "just list the real price" without the $7,500 gymnastics.

 

[polera257]

Yes actually that is exactly what was sent in the email. I was asked not to disclose much information so I will not post the name of the rep. My configuration was just about 90,000, went pretty much for everything so you can see why I am sad about dropping out. I was scheduled to have the car Nov/Dec. I would not have any problem taking my vehicle in for a check up and paying a small labor charge but felt this was being shoved down my throat. Wish they would have let me do that but was told NO WAY. Can not believe Tesla would do this, never expected it and it is only on principal that I asked for my money back. I lose out over my principals. I had faith in Tesla and learned a lesson once again.

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If the base price had been $2000 more and Tesla gave 4 years free maintenance, would that be any different to you?

It is not about the money. I want the freedom to chose what I do with my vehicle and if I chose to maintain it outside of Tesla I should not be punished by no longer having a warranty. I understand this is new technology and if certain items need to be checked by Tesla fine. Set up a fee schedule for only those items and let me decide what works best for me. Perhaps the all inclusive plan would have been best but I was not given an option. The way I took it was pay 600.00 per year pay up front for 4 years with a discount or have no warranty no other option. When I was told that I realized I would be purchasing a 90k car without a warranty, would you do that? I felt it was too risky

 

[Todd Burch]

Tesla rep emailed if you really can't stomach the cost of servicing model S and want to walk away from your reservation give me a call...

I am curious: was the rep actually that rude?

I suppose it's how you interpret the tone, but I don't see that as a rude statement.

 

[mnx]

With time I'm sure you'll forget about this bad experience. If you continue to hang out the on the forums, I bet you'll be back in the Model S queue within the next 12 months (this time with service included in the price).

Yes actually that is exactly what was sent in the email. I was asked not to disclose much information so I will not post the name of the rep. My configuration was just about 90,000, went pretty much for everything so you can see why I am sad about dropping out. I was scheduled to have the car Nov/Dec. I would not have any problem taking my vehicle in for a check up and paying a small labor charge but felt this was being shoved down my throat. Wish they would have let me do that but was told NO WAY. Can not believe Tesla would do this, never expected it and it is only on principal that I asked for my money back. I lose out over my principals. I had faith in Tesla and learned a lesson once again.

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It is not about the money. I want the freedom to chose what I do with my vehicle and if I chose to maintain it outside of Tesla I should not be punished by no longer having a warranty. I understand this is new technology and if certain items need to be checked by Tesla fine. Set up a fee schedule for only those items and let me decide what works best for me. Perhaps the all inclusive plan would have been best but I was not given an option. The way I took it was pay 600.00 per year pay up front for 4 years with a discount or have no warranty no other option. When I was told that I realized I would be purchasing a 90k car without a warranty, would you do that? I felt it was too risky

 

[Chas F]

At first, I was somewhat neutral about the service plan. Those on these forums make a good point about new technology, cheap plan to cover just about anything, blah, blah. I can also see the other side of the argument; bait and switch, "low maintenance" contradictions, etc. But now, the more I've thought about it, I think this is a bad move by Tesla.

The $ may not be a big deal for most of the "ballers" ponying up for the top of the line Model S (no offense to anyone here) during the first year, but eventually, those guys will have their cars and what Telsa will be left with is a good mix of MSP's and all those downstream of that trim level. Those in my financial strata that still choose to buy the car (I'm not even considering those that will/already have cancelled because of this) will do so by offsetting the service plan cost by removing options. Either way, Tesla will get their $2400 per car but in the latter scenario, they will be left with a few thousand stripped-down versions of the Model S on the road for all the world to see. This would have a significant impact on the Tesla brand, IMO. And trying to backtrack on requiring this service after that point would cause such an uproar I'm not sure they could recover from.

Tesla really needs to think this through....

 

[CarbonTax]

Another Chas agrees with you Chas! I'm in configuration limbo for a month now. With my daughter heading 250 miles to Univ.Michigan next year I've got to upgrade from the 40 to the superchargable 60kWh battery. Living 10 miles west of Chicago, service becomes a $1900 additional expense.
I can't even think about configuring 65k+ for a car unless my TSLA stock clears $39....

 

[ckessel]

It is not about the money. I want the freedom to chose what I do with my vehicle and if I chose to maintain it outside of Tesla I should not be punished by no longer having a warranty.

If it's not about the money, I think this sounds like a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. I understand standing on principal, but I'm not sure what your goal is here. Tesla won't miss one customer, you're the only one that loses out. If you think Tesla should be punished with massive cancellations, then you're basically rooting for their bankruptcy. Are you hoping folks like you will walk the razor's edge and be just enough to convince Tesla to change, but not so much that it kills Tesla?

IMy wife had a Toyota Corolla and put 160,000 miles on it in 7 years. She spent less than $2,000 on that car including all the oil changes, brake jobs, and all the other maintenance and consumables including wipers and coolant, towing, etc. (thank you Quicken).

I spent $2000 in just last year (maybe it was the year before) on my RX8. I'm not sure what anecdotes of extreme cases show...

 

[chrisn]

On the one hand, the whole maintenance thing was a big screw up by Tesla. On the other hand, I am scratching my head about buyers who are so on the fence that this change would make the car unaffordable. I wonder how they are valuing the "viability risk" that is embedded in the car. This dwarfs the maintenance costs. If you can "afford" the risk that Tesla goes bust in a year or two, you can afford the new maintenance plan....

If the maintenance plan busts the budget, you probably can't afford the viability risk inherent in being an early adopter...

If anyone thinks this risk is zero, I am happy to buy some cheap TSLA puts from you to defray your maintenance costs (free money for you, right?).

 

[ckessel]

Either way, Tesla will get their $2400 per car but in the latter scenario, they will be left with a few thousand stripped-down versions of the Model S on the road for all the world to see. This would have a significant impact on the Tesla brand, IMO.

How does someone tell if it's a stripped down version with the Model S? There's no visual external indication except for the Perf and that's pretty subtle.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of your post, I'm just not sure how the brand gets devalued without fairly close inspection (such as knowing the battery size).

 

[AnOutsider]

How does someone tell if it's a stripped down version with the Model S? There's no visual external indication except for the Perf and that's pretty subtle.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of your post, I'm just not sure how the brand gets devalued without fairly close inspection (such as knowing the battery size).

I'd agree. Sure, less "gee whiz" features to show off to your friends, but it's not like they're that noticeable anyway. A smaller battery? I'm sure people will realize there are larger versions. Weaker stereo and no offline maps? Not many will notice this either. Air suspension? Nope. I REALLY disagree with how Tesla has handled this, but for markedly different reasons.

 

[ElSupreme]

Regardless of "fairness," the "required maintenance for additional fee" policy is really dumb marketing and reveals an error in pricing. They should have been absolutely silent on this issue, other than to announce the cost of service at first service interval. They should bump price a bit next year and justify it, in part, by bundling in 50K miles of free maintenance in order to match best-in-class BMW policy. At that time, they should retroactively give the service package for free to all 85KwH cars previously sold and half price for 60kwH. Everyone is happy.

In contrast, they dumbly poked their best friends (early adopters) in the eye with a sharp stick.

Well what about all the people who got in line early this year that are going to get their cars in 2013? We would get stuck with a price increase that we could do nothing about. That would be much worse than charging BMW/MB maintenance rates.

 

[qwk]

This move would have had less consequence if Tesla was sold out for a few years. The problem is, there aren't enough reservations to fill an entire years of production. To make matters worse, all these potential customers word of mouth sales will be affected. This leads to Tesla having to advertise( not cheap) in order to sell cars. Jumping over dollars to pick up nickels NEVER works.

 

[ckessel]

This move would have had less consequence if Tesla was sold out for a few years. The problem is, there aren't enough reservations to fill an entire years of production. To make matters worse, all these potential customers word of mouth sales will be affected. This leads to Tesla having to advertise( not cheap) in order to sell cars. Jumping over dollars to pick up nickels NEVER works.

What do you think the impact will be of bad word of mouth versus cars on the road? I know in previous threads we've discussed the sales impact of the car on the road and buyers showing it off to friends. I really doubt owners are going to show off the car and then say "Yea, but the $2000 maintenance sucks, don't buy one." It's only folks like that drop out that will be giving bad word of mouth. Do you think that'll trump the impact of cars on the road?

 

[shokunin]

It is not about the money. I want the freedom to chose what I do with my vehicle and if I chose to maintain it outside of Tesla I should not be punished by no longer having a warranty. I understand this is new technology and if certain items need to be checked by Tesla fine. Set up a fee schedule for only those items and let me decide what works best for me. Perhaps the all inclusive plan would have been best but I was not given an option. The way I took it was pay 600.00 per year pay up front for 4 years with a discount or have no warranty no other option. When I was told that I realized I would be purchasing a 90k car without a warranty, would you do that? I felt it was too risky

+1. I feel the service thread has been the most anti-tesla from the get go. How can someone say that if you DON'T come in at your 1st year or 12,500 miles, you can say bye-bye to your warranty. WTF?

According to Joost's blog:

During your scheduled annual inspection (or after 12,500 miles), a service technician will spend several hours with your vehicle, conducting a full assessment of things such as brakes, tires, suspension, steering, lighting, and safety components. These scheduled check-ups make sure your Model S is running at its best.

Seriously, tires, brakes, lighting? for several hours? And if miss this service and my 17" touchscreen goes on the blink, I'm screwed even though you would not have inspected it during the service?

Although I don't agree on the price, I'll grudgingly pay it. But the principle of if you don't pay or get it checked every yr or 12.5K miles, then your $90K car has absolutely no warranty and poof, you want to be left with $10000 PEM replacement if something goes wrong? I agree that the car needs to serviced / maintained, they should have simply have raised the price and included the warranty/service plan. Then I wouldn't have these sour feelings being blackmailed on the service plan.

 

[chrisn]

Epiphany: Referral program. Refer a friend and you both get half off prepaid four-year maintenance. Refer two, maintenance is free for you. Everyone happy.

This move would have had less consequence if Tesla was sold out for a few years. The problem is, there aren't enough reservations to fill an entire years of production. To make matters worse, all these potential customers word of mouth sales will be affected. This leads to Tesla having to advertise( not cheap) in order to sell cars. Jumping over dollars to pick up nickels NEVER works.

 

[ElSupreme]

How does someone tell if it's a stripped down version with the Model S? There's no visual external indication except for the Perf and that's pretty subtle.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of your post, I'm just not sure how the brand gets devalued without fairly close inspection (such as knowing the battery size).

The real easy way to well if a car is what it looks like is to look at the exhaust. ... Damnit my system to determine if M3s, M5s, and AMGs are real doesn't work on the Tesla. Like the guy in a M3 badged 3 series with single exhaust, and a cherry-bomb on the end tried to race me last night. It obviously wasn't real when I downshifted my GTI to 2nd.

And as for car devaluation (@Chas F) I don't think it will. $60k is a bunch to spend on a car, so it won't get devalued much. And as with any BMW or MB all you need is an AMG badge, or M3 to fool about 95% of the public. And of that 95% about 90% don't care what the car cost. See *air-quote* M3 *end air quote* story above. I mean I can buy a Challenger for $25k or $50k+ and other than wheels they look pretty much the same. Same thing for a Camaro, you get some stripes, a spoiler, and rims. All of which are easy to do aftermarket.

 

[Mycroft]

Yep, those extra two or three exhaust pipes make all the difference!

It's funny that some guys remove the badge to be "stealth", but anybody who would care, could identify the car immediately anyway.

 

[efusco]

What do you think the impact will be of bad word of mouth versus cars on the road? I know in previous threads we've discussed the sales impact of the car on the road and buyers showing it off to friends. I really doubt owners are going to show off the car and then say "Yea, but the $2000 maintenance sucks, don't buy one." It's only folks like that drop out that will be giving bad word of mouth. Do you think that'll trump the impact of cars on the road?

It's not only owners that drop out. People will directly ask owners about maintenance and we'll be forced into the "theoretically maintenance is less, but Tesla does a lot, even though they advertised it takes less and then they charge a lot for that extra service. How much? Oh, around $600/yr...but you get windsheild wipers!"

Also, the automobile rags are going to have a hey day with this...think not, you're crazy. They'll pick on every little detail. "EV gas savings lost due to high maintenance costs!"

 

[wycolo]

> steering shaft replacement that cost more than $800 [David M]

OR, take it to an independent shop to rebuild unit, replace with a rebuilt unit, or replace with 'known good' used unit from parts yard. Many choices for popular cars. Tesla, not so many.
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