Warranty/Servicing - official Tesla responses (incl GeorgeB)

[shokunin]

George really lit up the thread, eh?

One thing I haven't seen discussed (but with over 200 posts perhaps I have missed it) is the "new features" comment which George added to the end of his post. Regardless of how silly the coverage for things like wiper blades and brake pads sounds, George is also saying that by purchasing a plan that you will be entitled to new features during the life of the plan (up to four years or 50k miles). That seems to be a HUGE value.

I'm not downplaying the value of new features, but they've released the car without features touted during the selling/marketing process. Creep? Somewhere scope creep is happening in their product backlog. Okay, it's great that creep option is coming, what about time based charging? What about text alerts when charging is stopped for whatever reason? Remote cabin heating/cooling? The iOS/Android App? We're stuck using 3G since Wi-Fi is currently not enabled. No hotspot, no tethering? Valet mode? Junior Mode? Offline downloaded/stored maps for Navigation (w/ the Tech Package), automatic keyless door handles, etc. Please don't tell me these things are "all inclusive" with the Annual service prepaid plans.

Future features, time will tell what they plan on developing and a roadmap of planned releases. I'm in the enterprise software world, so I know they disclaimers about what is published may or may not ever happen and anything can change at any time with or without notice, blah blah..

I get it as an early adopters that we're taking deliveries without certain features that are "coming soon, I swear", but don't use this as another marketing tool to promote the advantage of the first year's $600 service. These updates should be free since they were marketed as part of the car. IMO, the first year's service should be free, especially for Sig holders. There's so many bucket list items (lighted vanity visors? sunshade, opportunity consoles, rear seat opportunity consoles) that are still unknown/unaddressed that Tesla should eat crow for the first year and provide the 1st service for free, just my opinion.

Don't get me started about Tesla needs to be profitable, they will be if they take care of their customers and do what's right.

Some have dinged my rep for being "negative", or why I'm complaining with a high res number. I'm merely expressing my opinion because I truly DO care about Tesla and want them to succeed. If many of us early adopters are getting emotional over this, what do you think the early majority and late majority public will respond? Maybe by then the marketing message and sales messages will be aligned with the pricing and Model S expectations. Right now, IMO, they are not.

 

[VolkerP]

From my perspective buying a $100,000+ Signature Model S and balking at the buying the $475/year service plan is like buying an expensive house in a flood plane and balking at buying flood insurance.

That comparison falls short - The house was advertised as being less prone to flood damage as any other "conventional house".

I'm interested in what you would consider the remedy. Would a $300/year service plan just for Signature reservation holders be a sufficient reward for you?

Larry

The Model S service plan improves on Roadster service prices (fixed Ranger fee, loaner, roadside assistance, functional sw updates). Putting that aside, a figure lower that Roadster service fee of $600 would have helped greatly here with Tesla's image. So make it $500.

I get a hunch that Tesla is putting us through these pains to strengthen our resolve for the things to come - like annealing steel blades. Some blades will break, but the rest will be harder and sharper than ever.

 

[jerry33]

That comparison falls short - The house was advertised as being less prone to flood damage as any other "conventional house".

And you have to pay more for house insurance. Yes, that's the real problem. People are expecting electric cars to have far less maintenance and Tesla has touted this. People see the Leaf that costs $100/year for maintenance. They don't see any particular differences in the parts that need to be maintained. They wonder why the Model S is six times as expensive. I don't think anyone would have a problem if it included tires (at least the 19" tires). Right now the Model S costs $0.025 cents per mile for electricity ($0.09/kWh), $0.048 for maintenance ($600/12500 miles), and $0.023 for tires (19" tires at $900/4 tires over 40,000 miles) making the cost $0.096/mile. I believe most were thinking maintenance would be in the $0.01-$0.02 cents per mile range. My Prius has actually cost $0.117 per mile for tires, fuel, and maintenance, so yes, the Telsa's operating costs are 18% lower (not counting insurance or other surprise costs Tesla may come up with in the future) but not the 50% less that was expected. It's the 30% gap that is causing the feelings of betrayal. So Tesla has a problem of managing expectations.

I get a hunch that Tesla is putting us through these pains to strengthen our resolve for the things to come - like annealing steel blades. Some blades will break, but the rest will be harder and sharper than ever.

I sure hope not. More disappointments will lead to customer dissatisfaction and order cancellation. Then there won't be any more Tesla.

 

[DavidM]

I have always been cautious with regard to caring for my invested dollars. We've all been to someone's home who just spent a ton of money and botched a DIY project. So here we go. Spend $80K - $100K for a new tech car and then have a 3rd party marginally qualified technician troubleshoot your high tech car so you can maybe save a few hundred bucks a year? Or worse, ignore the minor problem until it becomes major.

Yes, initial warranty should cover most things anyway. I agree. But, hit a big pothole and anything could happen. Wheel alignment alone could cost hundreds. Headlamp install could be $100+. What about wear and tear on your air suspension? That could cost a fortune. Servicing your AC unit, who knows how much. Tesla uses an electrical AC unit unlike the belt driven unit in most cars. Many wear and tear parts are standard, but expensive. Some wear and tear parts may be non-standard.

Everybody wants Tesla to open a service center near them, but many folks balk at contributing to the expense of doing so. It's not just the cost of the building. It's also the investment in equipment, the utilities, the trained staff, and the service vehicles that will tow or deliver your car, including the equipment in the vans. You're kidding yourself if you think that early adopters will avoid paying for those things. Many of the current reservation holders are first time early adopters. Me too. Many folks are probably stretching it financially just to get the car, and want the expense to end there. Got it. Though, as an early adopter, there will be other costs you didn't count on. Tesla is doing their best to make a quality product and build a successful company. Unlike Toyota, their success is not a foregone conclusion.

 

[dsm363]

I have always been cautious with regard to caring for my invested dollars. We've all been to someone's home who just spent a ton of money and botched a DIY project. So here we go. Spend $80K - $100K for a new tech car and then have a 3rd party marginally qualified technician troubleshoot your high tech car so you can maybe save a few hundred bucks a year? Or worse, ignore the minor problem until it becomes major.

Yes, initial warranty should cover most things anyway. I agree. But, hit a big pothole and anything could happen. Wheel alignment alone could cost hundreds. Headlamp install could be $100+. Servicing your AC unit, who knows how much. Tesla uses an electrical AC unit unlike the belt driven unit in most cars. Many wear and tear parts are standard, but expensive. Some wear and tear parts may be non-standard.

Everybody wants Tesla to open a service center near them, but many folks balk at contributing to the expense of doing so. It's not just the cost of the building. It's also the investment in equipment, the utilities, the trained staff, and the service vehicles that will tow or deliver your car, including the equipment in the vans. You're kidding yourself if you think that early adopters will avoid paying for those things. Many of the current reservation holders are first time early adopters. Me too. Many folks are probably stretching it financially just to get the car, and want the expense to end there. Got it. Though, as an early adopter, there will be other costs you didn't count on. Tesla is doing their best to make a quality product and build a successful company. Unlike Toyota, their success is not a foregone conclusion.

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. While it sucks having to at least partially pay for the expansion, you're right that the service centers and people who staff them aren't free and we're more than likely helping to pay for the expansion. It also would never cross my mind to take my new Model S to an independent car service place to save $200/year for example. I do understand the people who wish to service parts of their car themselves but would think even then, they would need Tesla for some of the battery/service checks.

 

[jerry33]

It also would never cross my mind to take my new Model S to an independent car service place to save $200/year for example.

Me neither. The problem is one of managing expectations. Tesla hasn't done a very good job in this area. People were expecting much lower costs than an ICE car and found out there is not much difference.

 

[spatterso911]

Exactly. I couldn't agree more. While it sucks having to at least partially pay for the expansion, you're right that the service centers and people who staff them aren't free and we're more than likely helping to pay for the expansion. It also would never cross my mind to take my new Model S to an independent car service place to save $200/year for example. I do understand the people who wish to service parts of their car themselves but would think even then, they would need Tesla for some of the battery/service checks.

+1

It's interesting psychology for sure. Absolutely agree we are financing the service expansion, and I firmly believe that the Gen III platform will benefit from the developed infrastructure financed by our efforts. We are already financing that process, subsidizing it if you will, just by virtue of buying the car and consumer beta testing it at this price, with the sig owners bearing the greatest brunt with their loss in 40k of liquid assets for 3+ years, no interest earned.

Why is it interesting psychology? Because we would be far less likely to complain if $1200 bucks were rolled into the price of the car, no line item, and they introduced a pricing schedule of $1200 prepaid maintenance with included ranger fees. Hardly anyone would complain if the whole $2400 were rolled into the cost, and we were "recipients" of a 4 year/50000 mile maintenance plan "free of charge" and "oh yes, unlike our competitors, we will come to you or provide free towing, keep your software and feature set up to date, and provide you with complimentary loaners should you have to bring your Tesla to our service center for >4 hours". Most would laud this as a service triumph, with exception to those who believe that doing your own maintenance is better, cheaper, and more efficient. BMW and other manufacturers have been doing this for years, Toyota just jumped onto the bandwagon with "Toyota Care" and the Korean manufacturers subsidize their service plan costs with high profit margin vehicles and astronomical sales growth.

JC Penney used to offer coupons and sale prices ad nauseum for years, until they realized that their sale prices were still higher in some cases than the big box competitors. So, they rebranded themselves, specialty brands, new advertisements, slashed workforce, and closed a number of stores. The biggest change, however, was the elimination of sale prices almost entirely, with an advertised low regular price, 24/7/365. They hoped people would come back to them in droves so that they could take advantage of full time cheap pricing. Only problem is, the sales did not really pick up. Seems that people are inherently always in search of the cheapest bargain, freebie, or unheard of rock bottom sale price or coupon. Now, they are scrambling to determine if this new brand image is viable for long term growth, or if they should go back to doing sales and coupons.

Here, we are looking for the value of the maintenance plan, some insisting that it would make sense at a cheaper price. Some even made posts affirming their satisfaction if the costs wee hidden somewhat with a subsequently lower maintenance price.

Is the cost higher than would be expected for this type of vehicle? Yes. We can all acknowledge the subsidy we are providing by paying that higher cost.

Is the service worth the price? Half the price? No idea. I don't own a roadster and I have no idea what each service consists of. Can't relate to the Tesla service experience, either. Hardly anyone could tell you before purchasing a BMW what their service really consists of either. I do feel, though, that I really overpaid for that maintenance plan, given that probably about $2000 was rolled into the price, and I received about 4 oil changes, one set of wiper blades, a coolant flush and a few minor tidbits before my 4 year maintenance plan expired (I had about 32000 miles at the time). Extending that plan out to 6 years/100k miles would have cost an additional $3200 bucks. Would have been a tragic waste of money. My wife's Land Rover had a 6 month complimentary maintenance plan, covering a whopping 1 oil change. Now, practically every visit to the dealer is a $600 - $1000+ charge, usually to do brakes and rotors, which wear out about every 15k miles on that enormously heavy beast of a car.

I guess I'd be very satisfied if I knew what the Tesla service consisted of that it would take 4 hours to complete. If they went wrong any where, it was in omitting those details. Accepting the subsidy part, I'm in the camp that it's reasonably priced, provided that there is real substance and utility to their comprehensive maintenance evaluation.

 

[bluetinc]

Me neither. The problem is one of managing expectations. Tesla hasn't done a very good job in this area. People were expecting much lower costs than an ICE car and found out there is not much difference.

But Jerry, I think there is a huge difference in costs, not just that I was expecting them to be lower but they are almost a factor of 10 higher. For example my last Honda that I bought new. I took it from new to out of warranty in 11 months. During that I spent about $200 on servicing it myself, and during that time I had both warranty work done and recalls preformed with no issues. The same in the S is now going to cost me $1800.

While if the service plan was just expensive, I would go ahead and just get it, and look at it as supporting Tesla, and having a version 1 car really taken care of. BUT, with the way in which they are tying this to the warranty, it makes me not want to get it, and to file a complaint with the FTC. If this where ANY other car company, or if I were not so invested financially and emotionally, I would demand my money back even though I signed my MVPA months ago, and I would walk. If any other company made a decent EV with near the same range as the S, I would probably walk today from Tesla.

If I feel this way today, after having my reservation since day 1, I can't imagine that it's really going to go over well with the general public when trying to sell the next 10k cars after they clear the backlog.

Peter

 

[jerry33]

But Jerry, I think there is a huge difference in costs, not just that I was expecting them to be lower but they are almost a factor of 10 higher. For example my last Honda that I bought new. I took it from new to out of warranty in 11 months. During that I spent about $200 on servicing it myself, and during that time I had both warranty work done and recalls preformed with no issues. The same in the S is now going to cost me $1800.

I think servicing it myself is the key here. You would have spend far more than $200 if you had the dealer perform the service. That's not really comparing apples to apples. Also, from what I've read about the Roadster service, Tesla is doing far more than any car dealer service I've ever been to. I agree that Tesla should say "Here is a list of things the owner can do if they so desire and here is a list where DIY isn't recommended (typically because the equipment needed makes it not cost effective or there is significant danger to the untrained--note it's generally not a good idea for an untrained person to replace a gas tank in an ICE car either)".

Ideally, they should have DIY classes for those interested owners. Even though I'm not a DIY kind of person--don't give a screwdriver to a software guy--I would take the class just to get a better understanding of the car.

Please understand that I'm not disagreeing with you. Tesla indicated that the Model S, and EVs in general, are simpler and would require less maintenance so it's not unreasonable to expect people to be upset when the amount of maintenance is the same as or more than their previous ICE car. Dealer maintenance cost on the Prius isn't much different than the Model S maintenance--I was expecting the Model S to be significantly lower, so I'm not particularly happy about it. However, Model S maintenance is only about 10% of the VW TDI dealer maintenance so had I gone from the TDI directly to the Model S I would be jumping for joy at the reduced maintenance cost.

 

[jhs_7645]

Uh, *I'M* planning to do all mechanical work on my Model S. I don't trust Barney Fife either. Doug's brake pad comment is exactly why I do things myself. Replacing rotors every time you replace the brake pads is ridiculous and shows that either Tesla knows nothing about fixing cars or is a blatant money grab (I think they do know how to work on cars so my vote is for the latter). There is a published minimum rotor thickness so as long as the rotor is not at or below the minimum you can keep using it.

I believe they do have sound reasons for that decision. First of all Tesla has small shops and they don't have the ability to machine rotors in-house (heck right now Toronto can't mount tires themselves, although I hear they're getting their own machine). If you shop it out to a third party there are delays, it will cost a good fraction of the price of a new part, and you have no control over the quality of the work. I'm personally quite willing to try it without machining, and I can deal with any fallout; but they can't simply hand a car back not knowing if they've fixed it correctly.

It's also quite possible that they were cleaning not just brake pads, but rotors as well, and that the issue was perhaps an accumulation of rust due to underuse of the brakes (due to using re-gen).

One other thing about strider's comments about working on the car himself is that while I'm sure he could perform all of the physical work necessary to maintain his Tesla, there are certainly components which contain firmware/diagnostic information/etc.. that need to be reviewed by somebody with the proper equipment and training. The interface between the car's computer, and the car's hardware (i.e. motor etc..) is where things could get missed by an 'at home' maintenance. Steering, drive-by-wire acceleration, air-suspension, etc.., all those things, and more, are all controlled by a computer, and without equipment, there's no way to test them properly.

 

[clindsay]

So you agree with me regarding the reality of the significant risks that Tesla faces, but reject the premise that Tesla needs to take a conservative approach to avoid fatal missteps? Would it really be rewarding the early adopters if Tesla didn't proceed cautiously and went the way of Delorean and Tucker? From my perspective buying a $100,000+ Signature Model S and balking at the buying the $475/year service plan is like buying an expensive house in a flood plane and balking at buying flood insurance.

I'm interested in what you would consider the remedy. Would a $300/year service plan just for Signature reservation holders be a sufficient reward for you?

Larry

Just to clear it up, I am p732, not a signature holder, so my car is not 100K+. I do think Sig owners should get something for thy extra ~5K premium especially in light of the odd delivery order that seems to unfolding, but I won’t get in to that. Your comparison to Tesla as a house in a flood plane seems unfortunate. I would like to think we are all smarter than to execute on that purchase, but perhaps you are right and the waters are rising.

I will just say flatly that it is disingenuous of Tesla to:
- Repeatedly say maintenance costs of EVs are lower than ICE vehicles then price maintenance arguably the same/more than many ICE vehicles first 50K service.
- Offer to replace consumables as a benefit when at the 12.5K and 25K these consumables will not need replacing
- Not disclose pricing for the 50K+ service levels. Who knows, each one of us could get a rude awakening with a $5000 a year required service to keep the battery under warranty
- Include the justification that software updates are part of this as well when the car is being delivered feature incomplete
- Expect the people who are making the company possible carry all the weight of making it profitable.

Larry, I am not suggesting they give the first 2500 cars away for free and then go take a dirt nap. I am suggesting that the Tesla share the pain with us. Many of us put our money in ~3 years ago, we took a leap of faith WITH Tesla. We are almost there, but reading the forums you and I know we will all be going through the pains of being beta testers. We are now being asked to pony up cash for that “privilege”

My position is that Tesla needs to reveal the long term costs now and that the maintenance costs of the first 4 years are indeed to high, they need to be lowered. I am already locked in. I have three choices, forfeit my deposit, sell after delivery, or sit back and take what I find to be an unacceptable last minute gouging. I am not going to be silent when I feel I am being taken advantage of.

More and more people exactly like me are being asked to lock in their configs every day with incomplete information; they are all doing this to an orchestra of crickets. In your analogy consider this looking to buy a house and asking if it is in a flood plane and not getting an answer that yes it is until after you have signed the closing paperwork.

At the end of the day I am a person with a family and a budget trying to do the right thing making decisions for my future, I have the backing of me. Tesla is a company with a successful and smart CEO, government loans that are not fully realized, and is public company with many investors. All of this mitigates and spreads the risk. I am more concerned about the risks I am taking than the risks Tesla is taking. I expect a balance between the customer and profitability that I am not seeing.

 

[AustinPowers]

By the way, just for comparison I just added up all my BMW service bills (regular and otherwise) for my current car (330 Cd) from 2004 up to now.

All in all I paid exactly 1,229.58 Euro (including 19% VAT), which at current exchange rates of around 1.30 Dollars/Euro makes about 1,600 Dollars over eight years or 200 Dollars per year - and that is all official BMW service, no third party service centers.

So, the Model S for me would be three times as expensive. Low maintenance? Not really.

And as others have pointed out, the "new features" GeorgeB mentioned might turn out to be all those features the Model S was supposed to have in the first place, but which were omitted for the start of production due to some problems or issues.

 

[mnx]

This has been stated before, but I'm sure no BMW in the USA (even with free maintenance for 4 years) could be serviced for anywhere near that cheap.

Why the last time I took my 2 year old 335d in they recommended an alignment and an AC service.... Total bill with tax was $436. I'm sure I got hosed but this makes 600$ from Tesla seem not so bad.

By the way, just for comparison I just added up all my BMW service bills (regular and otherwise) for my current car (330 Cd) from 2004 up to now.

All in all I paid exactly 1,229.58 Euro (including 19% VAT), which at current exchange rates of around 1.30 Dollars/Euro makes about 1,600 Dollars over eight years or 200 Dollars per year - and that is all official BMW service, no third party service centers.

So, the Model S for me would be three times as expensive. Low maintenance? Not really.

And as others have pointed out, the "new features" GeorgeB mentioned might turn out to be all those features the Model S was supposed to have in the first place, but which were omitted for the start of production due to some problems or issues.

 

[Robert.Boston]

As a counter-example, my wife's BMW 535 has been in the shop perhaps 40 times in the past 5 years, with extensive reworks of the fuel system, the tailgate, and several other pricey repairs -- all covered under either the warranty (bundled into the car's price) or the (expensive) extended warranty I paid for.

Looking at any one individual's ​ex post service costs isn't necessarily a good way of judging the fairness of Tesla's pricing. Even on the $600 a-la-carte fee, there is still a lot of "insurance premium" built into the charge. Most cars will have only a few minor things that need repairing/replacement on a typical visit, but a few will have major issues -- like the micro-crack on the Roadster's frame we've read about.

 

[vfx]

What if you drove your Model S into a Tesla Service center at 12k miles? Do you think they would ask if you have a service plan? Would they turn you away if you had not?

 

[hcsharp]

Fair point, they certainly could have opted to charge for the upgrades/updates

How do you know they're not? I thought George was saying it included installation of new features, not necessarily what they charge for the new feature.

I don't have a Roadster, but isn't the price the same or less? And covers more (cheaper Ranger visits and replaced consumables)? I guess I'm not all that upset because I'd been expecting something not too far off from the Roadster's requirements.

They do far more at a Roadster 12k. It's not uncommon for it to take 6+ hours. The price is justified for the Roadster plus they told me about it before I bought the car. What they have to do at the MS 12.5k is a small fraction of what they have to do at the Roadster 12k.

...<snip>
I will just say flatly that it is disingenuous of Tesla to:
- Repeatedly say maintenance costs of EVs are lower than ICE vehicles then price maintenance arguably the same/more than many ICE vehicles first 50K service.
- Offer to replace consumables as a benefit when at the 12.5K and 25K these consumables will not need replacing
- Not disclose pricing for the 50K+ service levels. Who knows, each one of us could get a rude awakening with a $5000 a year required service to keep the battery under warranty
- Include the justification that software updates are part of this as well when the car is being delivered feature incomplete
- Expect the people who are making the company possible carry all the weight of making it profitable.

My position is that Tesla needs to reveal the long term costs now and that the maintenance costs of the first 4 years are indeed too high, they need to be lowered. I am already locked in. I have three choices, forfeit my deposit, sell after delivery, or sit back and take what I find to be an unacceptable last minute gouging. I am not going to be silent when I feel I am being taken advantage of.
<snip>

Neither am I and I would encourage others to be vocal as well. I plan to respond to GeorgeB with a personal email, and copy it to my configuration specialist.

<snip>
And as others have pointed out, the "new features" GeorgeB mentioned might turn out to be all those features the Model S was supposed to have in the first place, but which were omitted for the start of production due to some problems or issues.

I won't assume anything until confirmed, but I'm a little worried about this as well. They may charge us for the real new features that haven't been announced yet, and I'm not sure that's unreasonable. Before we all get in a huff about it, we need to get more information.

What should Tesla do about all this? Create a new optional "budget service plan" for half the price, if not less, and eliminate one of the benefits to save face. They could, for example, charge $300/yr to keep your warranty and not include consumables. They could call it the optional "budget" service plan.

BTW, I talked to a service tech today and asked how much work the annual is for the Model S. He said there's not much that has to be done at the 12.5k that is separate from warranty issues. He said it's a lot easier than a Roadster. He did mention that I might have a hard time flushing brake fluid because the only way he knew of to turn off the E-brake, which has a whole separate system, was with the service computer.

 

[DavidM]

I used to have a 2006 RAV4 that I bought "gently used". Clean CarFax report. The Toyota drove great, ran great, seemed like a good value. Then, I started to feel some vibration in the steering column. I wanted a quick repair by an authorized Toyota service technician, so I took it to my closest Toyota dealership. This was around the same time as all the "unintended acceleration" stories. I've owned Toyotas before. They are relatively cheap to maintain. How bad could it be? The repair required some sort of steering shaft replacement that cost more than $800. Worst part about it was it was deemed normal wear and tear. NOT A WARRANTY REPAIR. So I spent the next 30 minutes arguing with the service manager about what classifies as normal wear and tear. He won. I lost. I paid more than $800.

Bottom line: I don't want to ever have a similar discussion about what is, and what is not covered with a service manager. I can budget a "known" fixed cost per year for maintenance. I don't know how to budget for surprises. Incidentally, the following month I took the car to a local (Quick Lube) "type of place" for an oil change and filter. I figured it should cost $40. I immediately learned that this car required special synthetic oil (as printed in the manual). My once yearly oil & filter change was over $100. I declined the recommended replacement of the air filter for an additional cost.

 

[Larry Chanin]

That comparison falls short - The house was advertised as being less prone to flood damage as any other "conventional house".

Hi Volker,

No doubt my analogy failed, :redface: but the point that I was attempting to make is that when compared to the competition from a financial viability perspective Tesla is much more prone to "flood damage". It's currently in the red and burning through cash. I feel by purchasing the service plan it not only benefits my car, but it also serves to help ensure Tesla's continued viability in the event of unforeseen financial "floods".

The Model S service plan improves on Roadster service prices (fixed Ranger fee, loaner, roadside assistance, functional sw updates). Putting that aside, a figure lower that Roadster service fee of $600 would have helped greatly here with Tesla's image. So make it $500.

From my perspective by permitting me to purchase 4 years of service at a discount the cost to me is now reduced to $475. If I'm not mistaken Roadster owners weren't offered such a deal.

Larry

 

[kevincwelch]

This has been stated before, but I'm sure no BMW in the USA (even with free maintenance for 4 years) could be serviced for anywhere near that cheap. Why the last time I took my 2 year old 335d in they recommended an alignment and an AC service.... Total bill with tax was $436. I'm sure I got hosed but this makes 600$ from Tesla seem not so bad.

The reason for this is simple. Europeans don't let themselves get scammed as often as Americans do. Americans are stoopid.

 

[hcsharp]

Hi Volker,

No doubt my analogy failed, :redface: but the point that I was attempting to make is that when compared to the competition from a financial viability perspective Tesla is much more prone to "flood damage". It's currently in the red and burning through cash. I feel by purchasing the service plan it not only benefits my car, but it also serves to help ensure Tesla's continued viability in the event of unforeseen financial "floods".

That's fine if you want to volunteer to make contributions to Tesla but it should not be required and forced upon everybody else. Investors are responsible for making sure the company is profitable. Consumers are responsible for deciding if the price is too high. In this case many of us feel the price is too high but we no longer have any choice but to get soaked. I feel somewhat taken advantage of. You can't on the one hand sell a car on it's merits of cheaper maintenance, and then rob the customer of all the savings after you sell it.

I already made my contribution when I bought my Roadster and was happy to do so. Never in that experience did I feel misled. And to be honest, I've been very impressed with the over-the-top quality of service that I've received. This time it's a different experience and I'm not sitting quiet.