What if Tesla would give P85D owners free ludicrous update?

[EV_Steve]

I have a P85D....Finally, a sobering thought in this thread.

TM is full of half truths and misinformation...they don't handle their own messaging well at all - and they are the masters of it. With this car, it was my first experience dealing with them. They misquoted range and then silently adjusted the spec after people had ordered (without telling them). They spoke of the HP totals and had no testing data to back it up...there was supply chain challenges to the tune of people canceling their orders....and this "ludicrous" mode...that was previously a brag by Elon releasing to the market that he could push the car into the sub 3 second 0-60 realm....I agree there was no mention on whether it was going to cost users; however, lets be real with the information as it was shared.it was implied that it would be done through the typical pushed S/W upgrade.

This site is just an abundance of valuable information, but sometimes its very frustrating to read some of the defending comments around a company that should really be doing better at communicating its offerings to the public. Im not asking for anything that I don't see as unreasonable for what is a 6 figure depreciating asset. This company isn't a start up anymore and we shouldn't be giving it such a wide berth for very poor corporate communications.

+1. You nailed it skilly.

 

[lolachampcar]

I think what you are hearing from those defending Tesla is that I would rather have the products being produced with the communication fleas then anything from BMW, Audi, MB and the like.

Tesla will improve with time (as they have to date in some ways) while customers will vote with their wallet. It is a self correcting issue.

Lastly, this thread is about a Free something or other. I do not feel I am owed anything.

 

[dsm363]

@Matias - One thing we know for sure at this point is that the fan boys and girls wouldn't care if it said 691 HP on the window sticker, the website, or if a tattoo on the CEO's face also confirms it. They'll still find some way to spin it so that we're wrong for pointing out that Tesla screwed us over on horsepower when multiple tests show it's incapable of reaching the advertised value. lol.

Fanboys and girls is on the same level as calling someone a whiner or a troll since it immediately halts the discussion so why don't we leave those labels out of this.

 

[skilly]

I think what you are hearing from those defending Tesla is that I would rather have the products being produced with the communication fleas then anything from BMW, Audi, MB and the like.

Tesla will improve with time (as they have to date in some ways) while customers will vote with their wallet. It is a self correcting issue.

Lastly, this thread is about a Free something or other. I do not feel I am owed anything.

In this forum, I would agree simply because its a very narrow view of the market where people collaborate as enthusiasts of the brand...most certainly overlooking the flaws and more often than not defending them (to a flaw).

That said, if those other luxury brands decide to make a full electric with the range that Model S comes with, Id argue that it would change everything. The reason TM is capable of getting away with these sub par messages and communication is because they are on an island in terms of their offering. There is nothing to complete with them at all. If the supply/demand curve meets the attention of the luxury brands where they decide to offer something that is a real competitor, TM will have trouble surviving.

 

[sorka]

In this forum, I would agree simply because its a very narrow view of the market where people collaborate as enthusiasts of the brand...most certainly overlooking the flaws and more often than not defending them (to a flaw).

That said, if those other luxury brands decide to make a full electric with the range that Model S comes with, Id argue that it would change everything. The reason TM is capable of getting away with these sub par messages and communication is because they are on an island in terms of their offering. There is nothing to complete with them at all. If the supply/demand curve meets the attention of the luxury brands where they decide to offer something that is a real competitor, TM will have trouble surviving.

I think it will be years before we see true competitors to Tesla. Old companies set in their ways even when confronted internally by those who would truly revolutionize get bogged down in years of culture and bureaucracy.

By the time the big guys are able to produce a competitive product, they'll all be using batteries and drive units manufactured by Tesla anyways. This is really the main reason why the stock is astronomically high.

 

[lolachampcar]

and by the time the big boys get off their arses and do something Tesla will likely have cleaned up its act a bit and will likely be a significantly less exciting company.

 

[wk057]

Fanboys and girls is on the same level as calling someone a whiner or a troll since it immediately halts the discussion so why don't we leave those labels out of this.

Definitely do not agree on "fanboy" and "troll". Both groups (separate groups appropriately labeled) halt productive discussions by filling it with heavily biased information at best and completely useless/off-topic information at worst. Not everyone is aware of this disparity from the actual facts of the situation, so it is in fact useful to point out when a topic is being unfairly biased by the aforementioned groups.

In the case of this particular issue (this and other threads on closely related topics) it is quite obvious that this is happening.

The third term, "whiner" I agree should never be used in a productive conversation and posts about "whining" or calling people "whiners' should probably just be removed entirely since they add zero value.

 

[mkspeedr]

I hope they build the roadster before they become significantly less exciting.

 

[Rebel44]

I wish, I has your problem, OP.

IMO its similar to 85KWh battery, when not all of that capacity is available to user. At work, I often encounter info, that can be considered to be misleading (both up and down) because not enough details are provided, so I dont take marketing claims to be 100% correct and read fine print.

 

[dsm363]

Yet another post that adds no value to the conversation.

Also, I fail to see how my response was disrespectful. I expressed my disagreement and stated reasons why I disagreed in a coherent manner. I also never said I wasn't going to comply with the request. Edit: However, I don't think the request was directed entirely at me either since I've never used the term "whiner" on this forum.

I was speaking in general. Didn't meant to say you used those other terms.

I just meant that instead of calling someone any of their terms if it's a problem report the post and we can look into it.

 

[skilly]

Yet another post that adds no value to the conversation.

Also, I fail to see how my response was disrespectful. I expressed my disagreement and stated reasons why I disagreed in a coherent manner. I also never said I wasn't going to comply with the request. Edit: However, I don't think the request was directed entirely at me either since I've never used the term "whiner" on this forum.

you missed it...that post was like a backhanded compliment. Trying to get as close to the edge of being disrespectful, but reeling it in just in time to be able to follow up with many more like it. The trick is not to respond at all to that stuff, and stay on point with the issue.

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I think it will be years before we see true competitors to Tesla. Old companies set in their ways even when confronted internally by those who would truly revolutionize get bogged down in years of culture and bureaucracy.

By the time the big guys are able to produce a competitive product, they'll all be using batteries and drive units manufactured by Tesla anyways. This is really the main reason why the stock is astronomically high.

I think you might be flat out wrong on this one. You're missing the race to the middle of the market...which GM is on record to committing to deliver a sub 35K car that will travel 200 miles on a battery only source for power. As the great one said - you don't skate to the puck. You skate to where its going to be. They accomplish this first and TM will be in great distress. All things being equal, they need to better their game if they don't want negative press - even this strong fan base agrees that Tesla has a communication problem. Imagine when they are playing catch up and with a much wider less tolerant public....good luck with that.

 

[ERP]

As a P85D owner I am disappoint that the car does not meet one of the specs it was listed to have. I placed my deposit in early December, one of the many reasons I made the purchase was the listed horsepower and the promise that free software updates would provide further improvements. Most of the car meets or exceeds my expectations, but acceleration above 60 mph is significantly less than I was led to believe based on the 691 figure.

Now, if these threads have shown anything, its that 691 hp is not important to a lot of people, some of which are P85D owners. Given this type of feedback it does not make sense for Tesla to provide free upgrades to all owners when many do not see that value of it. As a performance car enthusiast and regular track rat I do see the value, and I am willing to pay for the upgrade. But I feel cheated, I was promised something on a very expensive car, the company later admits it can not meet that spec unless I pay extra for it (I see the 6 month window of a reduce cost upgrade as an admission of guilt). I would like Tesla to apply my $5,000 upgrade cost as a credit to a future model purchase. I feel this is a fair and equitable compromise. Those who value the upgrade can pay for it with the possibility of it still being 'free'. The company minimizes it losses by not being forced to upgrade all P85Ds and gains more future customers.

 

[sorka]

you missed it...that post was like a backhanded compliment. Trying to get as close to the edge of being disrespectful, but reeling it in just in time to be able to follow up with many more like it. The trick is not to respond at all to that stuff, and stay on point with the issue.

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I think you might be flat out wrong on this one. You're missing the race to the middle of the market...which GM is on record to committing to deliver a sub 35K car that will travel 200 miles on a battery only source for power. As the great one said - you don't skate to the puck. You skate to where its going to be. They accomplish this first and TM will be in great distress. All things being equal, they need to better their game if they don't want negative press - even this strong fan base agrees that Tesla has a communication problem. Imagine when they are playing catch up and with a much wider less tolerant public....good luck with that.

That's the scenario I'm talking about.....someday when they finally get their act together. And who do you think they're going to be buying their batteries from? Tesla is producing a factory to built an optimal EV sized cell on a scale that is almost incomprehensible. No other company is pushing to this level.

 

[wk057]

I would like Tesla to apply my $5,000 upgrade cost as a credit to a future model purchase. I feel this is a fair and equitable compromise. Those who value the upgrade can pay for it with the possibility of it still being 'free'. The company minimizes it losses by not being forced to upgrade all P85Ds and gains more future customers.

My initial impression is that this would be a neat idea and it does solve some of the issues with giving the update for "free." However I think it still opens the door as an admission of guilt a little wider than the discounted upgrade.

In any case, I think this would be a pretty decent compromise and would give existing owners an excuse/reason to buy Tesla later vs some competitor.

 

[sorka]

I wish, I has your problem, OP.

IMO its similar to 85KWh battery, when not all of that capacity is available to user. At work, I often encounter info, that can be considered to be misleading (both up and down) because not enough details are provided, so I dont take marketing claims to be 100% correct and read fine print.

This is why there is an EPA rated range based on the amount of the battery that is actually accessible so there won't be any confusion.

My Lexus gas tank holds 20 gallons but it will stop if I run it to 18.5 gallons. The last 1.5 gallons can't be used. This is pretty typical for most cars.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Unless you are looking at a different page than me, 70D and 85D also has motor power ratings:
70D: 328 hp / 259 hp front and rear motor power
85D: 417 hp / 259 hp front and rear motor power

I'm looking at the Design Studio, where it does not say "motor power" for 70D or 85D.

 

[wk057]

This is why there is an EPA rated range based on the amount of the battery that is actually accessible so there won't be any confusion.

My Lexus gas tank holds 20 gallons but it will stop if I run it to 18.5 gallons. The last 1.5 gallons can't be used. This is pretty typical for most cars.

In the case of a BEV like the Model S, the safety margins on the top and bottom of the battery state-of-charge make perfect sense...

... on an ICE I never quite understood why the gas tank wasn't designed so that near 100% of the fuel on board could be consumed.

 

[JRP3]

While I don't think the answer to the issue is a free ludicrous upgrade I do have a problem with Tesla advertising something that they are not actually delivering. Going forward I'd certainly prefer to see Tesla dial back their numbers so that they slightly under promise and over deliver. I'm not sure what the proper answer is for those who feel deceived, but if there are enough of them a class action suit might be the only answer.

 

[Andyw2100]

While I don't think the answer to the issue is a free ludicrous upgrade I do have a problem with Tesla advertising something that they are not actually delivering. Going forward I'd certainly prefer to see Tesla dial back their numbers so that they slightly under promise and over deliver. I'm not sure what the proper answer is for those who feel deceived, but if there are enough of them a class action suit might be the only answer.

The point I've been making for a while now, in a number of threads, is that I think once a few thousand people have paid for the Ludicrous upgrade, the class action lawsuit will follow, because some law firm somewhere will see the big money that has been paid, that will then be sitting in Tesla's coffers just waiting for someone to go after it, and they will do exactly that. So since that is such a likely scenario, Tesla could do so much better by giving away the Ludicrous upgrade to affected P85D purchasers, and reaping the benefits of some incredible press at the same time.

Below is a relevant excerpt of one of my other posts on this:

There may be a lot of reasons why it doesn't make sense for Tesla to provide the upgrade for free. But I think there are also many reasons why it would make sense for Tesla to provide the update at either a much deeper discount, or possibly for free. The most important reasons are the good will and the good press that would come from doing something like this. Imagine the news stories: "Ludicrous Tesla Announces free upgrades for owners of their top of the line cars that will significantly increase speed and performance!" or "Is Tesla Insane? Perhaps, but their top of the line cars won't be any longer, as the company will be providing free Ludicrous Mode upgrades to increase speed and performance."

 

[JRP3]

The money Tesla receives for the ludicrous upgrade will not significantly change Tesla's financial position, so I don't see that as an impetus for a class action lawsuit. If a firm thinks it's a valid case they know Tesla has the funds to pay. My guess is there would be some settlement which would cost Tesla much less per vehicle.