What is the difference between the signature performance and GP performance?

[smorgasbord]

I thought about complaining but it's likely only a few weeks difference and in the grand scheme of things really won't matter.

It's probably at most a 2 week difference. Tesla needs to get to 385 cars/week by Dec 30th, so even if they're at only half that by the time they get to Roadster owner cars, they'll be doing 190 per week.

 

[AnOutsider]

It looks good on our Roadster! Right now she's thinking: Blue Perf, Black w/ CF interior, pano roof, standard 21" wheels (the perf wheels and the blue were fine but the chrome handles and bits really jumped out - blends better w/ the lighter wheels), spoiler.

Good choice on the wheels I think. Have me second guessing my choice. I think your R number is around my old R, so not bad. I'd expect late Sept maybe?

 

[DaveVa]

At this point, for what I want, sig is sort of a waste, but I couldn't imagine waiting a few more months (or longer since I'm not likely to get my original number back). I'm still hoping there will be a surprise or two for us in store.

I feel the same way. I could not see myself moving back at this point. Tesla has hinted a couple of times that there are still a few "surprises" left, but as the date nears, I am beginning to believe that the there will be very little that differentiates the Signature models. I'm a little disapointed in this fact given that being a Signature reservation required a substantially higher commitment upfront. Doesn't seem to be a real reward for the level of faith shown by signature reservation holders in Tesla as a company.

I hope I am wrong...

 

[Charged_Up]

"I am beginning to believe that the there will be very little that differentiates the Signature models. I'm a little disapointed in this fact given that being a Signature reservation required a substantially higher commitment upfront. Doesn't seem to be a real reward for the level of faith shown by signature reservation holders in Tesla as a company."


Don't hold your breath. I've tried as much as possible to get accomodation relating to test drives because I was an early sig # and trying to figure out whether I would go performance or regular and got nowhere. People at hq are always pleasant, but I learn more from here than I ever have from those at hq to whom I've asked questions. The thing that is most irking is that the Sig was promised as not just the first 1000 cars, but as something that would have excluse "features" not available on the production models. So far, the only items referenced are red paint, white leather (which is mostly impractical) - and those two i don't think of as features, and "extensive leather". Ah yes, almosft forgot the graphics badging that was nearly rubbed off the one beta that I was able to see. And the almost certain extra charge for a center console. And the higher price for similarly configured production model. To add further discomfort, I find out from the forum that features are still changing (e.g. lacewood and paint protection, which i raised with them a month ago) and not from sales staff. Not annoyed to the point of not wanting to purchase, but some of the gloss has rubbed off and it's too bad, because almost certainly those who committed early have been some of the most vocal supporters. The love is fading a bit.

 

[KBF]

If I downgrade, even if I get my original spot back (P4, I think), I'll be waiting at minimum 3 months. Canadian sigs are estimated to come at the end of September, and at best they said "2013" for Canadian P's. Its still a tough choice for me... I'm hoping that new info in June will make it clear.

 

[shokunin]

Has anyone asked if the smoked out / darkened rear tail lights are standard on the performance line? The white performance S they had on display at Fashion Island had smoked out tail lights, which the other betas did not have.

 

[mnx]

That is my biggest question right now... If it's a >= 3 month difference then I'll probably keep my sig spot.

If I downgrade, even if I get my original spot back (P4, I think), I'll be waiting at minimum 3 months. Canadian sigs are estimated to come at the end of September, and at best they said "2013" for Canadian P's. Its still a tough choice for me... I'm hoping that new info in June will make it clear.

 

[smorgasbord]

The thing that is most irking is that the Sig was promised as not just the first 1000 cars, but as something that would have excluse "features" not available on the production models.

When did you hear that? I was told a bit over a year ago that the differences were: the Red, some badging, early deliveries, and would have to take all options - but what the options would be wasn't well known. That's it. As Sig Roadsters didn't have special options, no-one I spoke to at Tesla thought Sig Model S would have special options.

Tesla has and is making mistakes, but in my view they are very open as to what's going on. That they're now thinking of changing things like the Lacewood is, IMHO, a good thing. It means they're listening to the feedback they're getting. With most car companies, changes wouldn't happen until the next model year - these are happening before the first car is delivered.

In retrospect, Tesla should have done a better job of warning Sig holders what they were getting themselves into.

Model X signature reservation holders should take note.

 

[AnOutsider]

Model X signature reservation holders should take note.

Yes, something I pondered recently as well. For me though, now that I KNOW that I shouldn't expect anything but delivery in 2013 (hopefully), then that's good enough. I, too, however was originally under the impression the sigs would get a car that couldn't be duplicated and/or a bargain on an options package. As it is, we pay more, and aside from the red and white, anyone can get the same config as you. If you go performance, it's pretty much game over.

Perhaps they'll make it up with some perks like free maintenance or 3G or something. Heck, I'd be happy with a plaque like the roadster guys got

 

[dsm363]

When did you hear that? I was told a bit over a year ago that the differences were: the Red, some badging, early deliveries, and would have to take all options - but what the options would be wasn't well known. That's it. As Sig Roadsters didn't have special options, no-one I spoke to at Tesla thought Sig Model S would have special options.

Tesla has and is making mistakes, but in my view they are very open as to what's going on. That they're now thinking of changing things like the Lacewood is, IMHO, a good thing. It means they're listening to the feedback they're getting. With most car companies, changes wouldn't happen until the next model year - these are happening before the first car is delivered.

In retrospect, Tesla should have done a better job of warning Sig holders what they were getting themselves into.

Model X signature reservation holders should take note.

Tesla told me the exact same thing they told Charged_Up that it would have a package of options not able to be replicated in general production. Of course that was three years ago and I knew things would change. While it may not be worth the short jump in line from the low production number I initially had, I don't want to wait any longer for it. Maybe they'll throw something else in to sweeten the deal with the warranty or something.

 

[Jkam]

When I signed up for a Sig over two years ago, I was told 1) you would get a test drive before your final decision, 2) there would be extra features only available on the Sig, and 3) the Sigs would be delivered first. So far only one of those things (#3) looks like it will come to fruition. What Tesla is trying to accomplish is difficult and immense so I'm somewhat understanding, and I know circumstances change over time. On the other hand, I was taught to be a man of my word - if I promised you something, I would deliver.

In regards to item #1 (test drive before final decision) I can kind of let that slide by and classify it under circumstances change. With the desire to start delivering the first cars as soon as possible and the timing of final road approval, I can see the logistical problems in arranging test drives before getting the first orders in. It is a confluence of events that led to this. So I can accept not having a test drive before putting in the final order.

In regards to item #2 (exclusive features for the Sigs), I'm not understanding it all. First I don't consider one different exterior color (red) and one different interior color (white) exclusive features, especially when there are other exterior and interior colors not available for Sigs. Second I'm not as understanding or forgiving as with item #1 because Tesla had plenty of time to back up their sales pitch and making available exclusive features for Sigs is entirely in Tesla's control. An example would be a slightly more upgraded sound system. Or once they decided they weren't really going to make exclusive features available for Sigs, they could have factored it into the price and not charge the Sig premium. I think Tesla could have done something to make it palatable to Sig owners.

So of the three material items I was promised when I signed up for a Sig, only one will come to fruition (first delivery). One I can understand the complications and let it slide (test drive before committing). One I don't find acceptable (lack of exclusive features). I want to give Tesla the benefit of the doubt and maybe they'll still surprise the Sig owners with a feature not previously mentioned, but as of now it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It is more a matter of principle than anything. You do what you say you are going to do.

 

[jbherman]

An emphatic
Jkam +1

 

[dsm363]

I agree. I'm hoping this is a sign of growing pains of a new company and hope they've learned how to speak to customers and what and what not to promise. As things changed, they probably should have contacted all of the Signature customers with an update. While I am a little disappointed, I hope they will come through in the end with something. At least thrown in a custom signature jacket and hat or something.

 

[Arnold Panz]

Amen, Jkam. I had a friend with a Sig reservation who was so disappointed when they announcing pricing and options that he downgraded to a P, and eventually gave up and bought a Panamera. It's the one real disappointment I've had with Tesla in my 3+ years since I first put down my deposit. Perhaps when they create storage space holders in the "negative space" between the front seats they'll give those to us for free? I'm also assuming that supercharging access will be free for Sigs. It's a (very) slight bitter pill that I'm essentially paying thousands of dollars to get my car a couple of months earlier (I was P 96), and not getting the colors I probably would have selected (blue with gray interior), but I just can't wait a minute more than I have to!

 

[ElSupreme]

In regards to item #2 (exclusive features for the Sigs), I'm not understanding it all. First I don't consider one different exterior color (red) and one different interior color (white) exclusive features, especially when there are other exterior and interior colors not available for Sigs.

As much as I would like to agree with you they are exclusive features. They may not mean anything to you, but that doesn't make them insignificant.

Granted I would have expected more than just some color choices, but they are exclusive to signatures.

And remember that not a single Signature (or any production for that matter) Model Ss have been delivered. We don't know if there are any extra features until the first production Model Ss get delivered.

 

[Jkam]

As much as I would like to agree with you they are exclusive features. They may not mean anything to you, but that doesn't make them insignificant.

Ok ElSupreme, you are technically correct the red exterior and white interior are exclusive features to the Sig.

However consider this. How many Sig owners would have plopped down the extra $35k for a reservation if they were told from the outset 1) you will not get a test drive before your final commitment, 2) the only extra features will be red exterior and white interior and 3) you will be first in line?

I'm not sure I would have given that sales pitch.

 

[mlascano]

Perhaps when they create storage space holders in the "negative space" between the front seats they'll give those to us for free?

I asked this question to my ownership experience advocate: Any chance of having the "center console" option included for Sig? Anything else custom not available down the line to General Production?

This is the response I got:

Although this is my best guess I do not anticipate the center console option being included for Signature. Since this option will be an add-on and we do not have it produced yet, I would think it would be difficult to be available at the beginning of production for our Signature customers. I would not opt a Signature Model S assuming that there will be anything additional or any financial benefits to the purchase.

So don't hold your breath hoping for any meaningful surprises...

 

[jbherman]

As much as I would like to agree with you they are exclusive features. They may not mean anything to you, but that doesn't make them insignificant.

Granted I would have expected more than just some color choices, but they are exclusive to signatures.

And remember that not a single Signature (or any production for that matter) Model Ss have been delivered. We don't know if there are any extra features until the first production Model Ss get delivered.

Although this issue has been beaten on many times over, my interpretation of the promise of special/unique color options at the time of my Signature deposit was that I would have the options of ALL the Model S color choices PLUS the special Signature color option(s). While some may see them as "exclusive," Sig holders are actually "excluded" to a greater degree from other options. The way I see it, there are more and possibly better options for the Production reservation holders. Not too big of a deal for me, as I'll likely go with the pearl white and I understand that the paint shop can't initially handle the full spectrum, but my other favorite choices won't be available next week when I'm contacted for configuration.

Regarding any additional "special" features that could still come our way: Despite the fact that I feel the Signature reservations deserve something more than just getting the car sooner and some cheap badging, I think it is highly unlikely to happen. I believe that what we see now is what we'll get. The car is the car. Otherwise those that have already configured would have commented. Furthermore, I'm not sure that TM would be able to add to or change our configured car without first altering the purchase contract. Service/non-hardware related perks (charging, maintenance, network, etc.) would likely be the only possible extra benefits for Signature holders, aside from merchandise. In sum, for those of you holding your breath for a surprise or an "ace up Elon's sleeve," I'd go ahead and let it out. It all comes down to whether you can live an extra few months without the car. While I'm leaning toward moving forward with my Sig, I haven't decided 100% just yet, particularly given that I still have over a year left on my current lease.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

And, there are some not-very-unlikely concerns with early delivery too:

- Bugs / minor niggles with manufacturing and fit-finish (although apples-to-oranges, some of the very early Roadster owners were supposedly 'embarrassed' to show off their cars given glaring panel gaps and other such problems that Tesla sorted out over time)
- Inconvenieces such as the lack of availability of the mobile apps at launch time
- Lack of access, atleast for some, to service centers and Supercharger stations till they are rolled out in due course.

 

[AnOutsider]

This should probably be split into a new thread, but I have to give jkam a big +2. I waited before upgrading to see what was in store, and finally gave in because i didn't want the sigs to sell out and I wanted the car sooner. Even at that time though they were still giving the "it'll be almost fully loaded" with features you can't configure in a normal car. Had I known what was in store, I'm not 100% sure I would have upgraded given that I had a decent P number to begin with.

Though, as I say, now that we're HERE, I can't imagine going back. I guess I can just pretend I paid someone for their earlier slot