What will separate S from 3?

[alseTrick]

I'm as guilty as anyone of making the mistake of thinking that this is all about S vs 3 when it's really 3 vs Audi; 3 vs Mercedes; 3 vs BMW etc.

I still don't think that has anything to do with the trunk. It's because they wanted to create more head room in the back seat. That necessitated a trunk and not a hatch. I don't think it had anything to do with German automakers.

 

[Lex]

One interesting thought to add... the Model 3 is going to have an all-new cell design, specifically designed by Tesla for EV use. The last I heard is it will likely be bigger than the 18650, but still cylindrical because the Tesla cooling system is designed around cylindrical cells. It's for this reason I am guessing they will be fatter, possibly not taller, and still stacked upright.

And because of this new cell, the "classic" cars with 18650-sized cells might end up being better at certain things eg. sustained performance driving and dealing with cold weather... and so maybe that will also help differentiate the models.

Too bad those are already issues in the current Tesla designs

 

[alseTrick]

For your poll to be meaningful you would need to quantify "more headroom". There were more design choices than taking the current shape and making it a lift back. How about this poll question: "Would you prefer a liftback with rear headroom for a 6'2" person?"

My displeasure with Tesla making too many design choices centered on trying to grow business in China. The model X devolved from an SUV into a Chinese town car.

What does more headroom and a standard trunk have to do with China?

 

[Alketi]

One interesting thought to add... the Model 3 is going to have an all-new cell design, specifically designed by Tesla for EV use. The last I heard is it will likely be bigger than the 18650, but still cylindrical because the Tesla cooling system is designed around cylindrical cells. It's for this reason I am guessing they will be fatter, possibly not taller, and still stacked upright.

Musk said on a conference call a couple of years ago, the new cells will be both 10% taller and wider. 6:53 in the following video:

That of course might change, but that was at least their intention at that point. It's an interesting question as to whether that makes the cells harder to cool, or harder to overheat, and how that impacts performance.

 

[electracity]

Musk said on a conference call a couple of years ago, the new cells will be both 10% taller and wider. 6:53 in the following video:

That was 2012.
We really don't know, and I suppose it doesn't matter as long as they have met their cost goal.

What does more headroom and a standard trunk have to do with China?

Emphasis on the car owner sitting in the second row. BMW even makes a longer wheelbase 3 series for China only for the purpose of increasing second row leg room.

 

[zenmaster]

That of course might change, but that was at least their intention at that point. It's an interesting question as to whether that makes the cells harder to cool, or harder to overheat, and how that impacts performance.

I remember speculation (from that same video?) that the new cell packs may actually use air flow for its temp mgmt method.

 

[melindav]

What does more headroom and a standard trunk have to do with China?

because most Chinese are 6'2"?

 

[JeffK]

because most Chinese are 6'2"?

Depends on the hair...

 

[MountainHigh]

What separates an S from a 3? I'd say about $40,000!

Lol! I was going to say $36,500 (announced $35k for vs $71.5k for base 70). Of course assuming base ms doesn't rise by the time the m3 hits production.

Other than that, here's my guess of what will separate m3 vs ms:
- m3 has mechanical door handles
- m3 has mechanical truck release/closure
- m3 will not have bio-weapon defense mode unless there is no frunk (it's really shrinking in the ms)
- m3 has smaller cargo capacity
- m3 will have *slightly* less range and performance (thought is based on comparing m3 announced specs vs base ms)
- m3 not available for another 18 months-ish

I'm also wondering if the m3 will have the pano roof on the base model. I would think it has to be more expensive than having a body color roof.

I seriously doubt any new tech features will be introduced in the m3 that doesn't show up on the ms/x at the same time. If that were to happen, I believe that would seriously cripple ms/x sales. Although, for the short term, maybe Tesla is ok with that to make sure they can deliver all the model 3's that Musk has stated they would.

I guess we'll all find out in the next year or so.

 

[wdolson]

It looks like all M3s will have some kind of glass roof. The roof and back window are all one piece of glass.

I suspect the M3 will have bio defense mode as an option. That's a big selling point in China where the air is toxic soup.

Where we live the main freeway out to our town passes a paper mill and a sewage treatment plant. I expect to use the bio defense mode in that section of the highway, but for most of the time in North America and Europe it's just a "nice to have" feature. My current car doesn't even have the ability to put the car into re-circulation mode so I just have to live with the stink driving through there. It hasn't killed anyone, it's just unpleasant.

The Model S and X also have more usable cargo spaces. With the wide opening hatches, large bulky things can be put into and removed from the back quite easily, whereas it's a bit more difficult with an M3. Elon has said they are looking at making the trunk lid bigger, but without making a fastback hatch, it will never be as convenient as a Model S.

 

[alseTrick]

It looks like all M3s will have some kind of glass roof. The roof and back window are all one piece of glass.

No. Even if you choose to have a panorama roof option, it will not be one piece of glass.

The roof will be very small and over the front seat. The back window will be very large and extend forward over the back seat. If you want the panorama window, you will have two pieces of glass, not one large one. Same for the sunroof.

 

[RangerRick]

What separates S from 3? *looks at keyboard*

Looks like it's... "WE"?

(Sorry)

 

[ecarfan]

It looks like all M3s will have some kind of glass roof. The roof and back window are all one piece of glass.

The Tesla test drivers at the Model 3 reveal stated (on videos taken by passengers) that the center section of the Model 3 roof (between the A and B pillars) will be offered as either metal (which being the lowest cost will obviously be on the base version), fixed glass, or a movable glass sunroof.

 

[Big-T]

The Tesla test drivers at the Model 3 reveal stated (on videos taken by passengers) that the center section of the Model 3 roof (between the A and B pillars) will be offered as either metal (which being the lowest cost will obviously be on the base version), fixed glass, or a movable glass sunroof.

You know, I just can't take a driver/engineers word as gospel that far ahead of production. Maybe he's right. Maybe the accounting department, Elon, or a bunch of people above this guy in the company will make changes to some or most of what he said during the drives.

 

[zenmaster]

It's a little disappointing to hear that Tesla has to economize on Model 3 features compared to the Mode S/X. I'd be willing to pay more for better hardware, if it could be optioned.

 

[ecarfan]

At the shareholder's meeting today, Elon stated that the S and X will always have more advanced features and technology than the Model 3,

It was unclear to me if that meant the S and X would have options that the 3 would not, or if the S and X would get new features before those features were made available as options on the 3. My guess is that both scenarios would be the case and it depended on the option.

 

[NoTDI]

Kind off topic but our IT guy at work was installing something on my computer. When he saw my background picture of the 3, he said is that a Porsche? I said no that's a Tesla. He said oh is that the 300? I said no that's the 3. He said is that a coup? I said no it's a sedan! He said oh yah is that the one 100,000 people have bought? I said no almost 400,000. He almost fell off the chair

 

[zenmaster]

It was unclear to me if that meant the S and X would have options that the 3 would not, or if the S and X would get new features before those features were made available as options on the 3. My guess is that both scenarios would be the case and it depended on the option.

The 3 *must* have less expensive features in order to accommodate the economies of scale demanded by a less expensive platform. There would be less margin in a design that provided the necessarily more expensive newer features in addition to some cost-effective feature set. This is because of the additional cost of parts which are not cross platform and are not ordered by enough buyers. There would probably also be some technical issues developing interchangeable assemblies for some of the components.

 

[jkk_]

It's a little disappointing to hear that Tesla has to economize on Model 3 features compared to the Mode S/X. I'd be willing to pay more for better hardware, if it could be optioned.

Yeah me too but oh well, 2016 model S is still quite the car. So assuming that 2017 (or 18) model 3 is "the same" as 2016 model S, it won't be too bad even though the S will have some more advance features at that point.

And yes, the same was quoted so don't get too hung up on that, please.

 

[zenmaster]

Yeah me too but oh well, 2016 model S is still quite the car.

It's a great car, but just too big for me. I will not drive a "luxobarge".

We'll see what happens with alternatives next year, as the auto industry won't stand still when their bread and butter is threatened this much.