Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

What's up with HPWC?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Indeed. Except my reason for AMT is incentive stock options -- taxed, for AMT purposes and not regular tax purposes, when I exercise, and not when I sell. Which means I have to pay taxes on money I haven't really earned yet. Then hope to get the extra tax back over the next few years as an AMT credit against regular tax.
Right, but.. it's possible you could realize those gains (if there's a market for your shares public or private). So your AMT obligations are based on your "earnings" this year - you're just gambling on a way to make those earnings more attractive either through appreciation or a longer capital gains period. Maybe.

Sorry if I just made a bunch of stuff up about your position... :)
 
Right, but.. it's possible you could realize those gains (if there's a market for your shares public or private). So your AMT obligations are based on your "earnings" this year - you're just gambling on a way to make those earnings more attractive either through appreciation or a longer capital gains period. Maybe.

Sorry if I just made a bunch of stuff up about your position... :)
Sooooooo off topic. Suffice it to say, yes, it's a gamble. I didn't have to exercise and hold shares. And this isn't my first rodeo with such a situation. Anyhow, off topic, and about as far as I want to go in a public forum. If any one is truly interested in my employment history and my tax experiences with such, feel free to start a private conversation with me.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: aesculus and ohmman
@ccutrer @Cosmacelf #FirstWorldProblems #MoneyOverflowAnxiety
AMT- A(lot of) Money Tax
;):p:D
Y'know, I should turn this all around. It baffles me how people that are purchasing an $80k+ car can not at least be aware of AMT, let alone how some people are trying to figure if they'll even be able to get the full $7500 tax credit. I probably just suck at taxes, but I pay a boatload. And my wife and I are trembling wondering if we can truly afford a Model X. I just chalk it up that most people probably own their own business, so have a world more tax options available to them. I'm just a lowly (ok, a very senior, but not a manager or an exec) peon at a medium sized company.
 
Y'know, I should turn this all around. It baffles me how people that are purchasing an $80k+ car can not at least be aware of AMT, let alone how some people are trying to figure if they'll even be able to get the full $7500 tax credit. I probably just suck at taxes, but I pay a boatload. And my wife and I are trembling wondering if we can truly afford a Model X. I just chalk it up that most people probably own their own business, so have a world more tax options available to them. I'm just a lowly (ok, a very senior, but not a manager or an exec) peon at a medium sized company.
I am in the same boat as you, I am just a hair away from getting sucked into AMT and I whole heatedly agree with you about being well informed about tax credit, affordability anxiety of the X etc. I have this conversation with my wife literally every other day if we are stretching too far.. should we instead buy a rental property, specially with newly increased expenses..
I'm with you and was j/k to probably console and assure myself that's it's OK and we will all be eventually happy at this splurge...
The yearly tax bill we pay including property taxes here in SoCal was my yearly salary not so long ago.. it's brutal.
Edit: I am guilty of derailing this thread. **closes eyes, waits for Mod-train to hit**
 
May I suggest paying AMT is a good problem to have?

Perhaps. At least Congress fixed the major problem with it for the 2013 year. Prior to that, because it wasn't indexed to inflation, it would catch more and more people every year, and it bit me in 2012 for the infrastructure credit.
 
Passed inspection today, thanks again for the tip on the insulation. The inspector did tell me that was one of the things he was looking for. He also asked if my ground and neutrals were separate to which of course I said yes. Only took a few minutes.

Great to hear!

Inspectors who are aware of the DIY status of a project generally look for a set of things that are frequently done wrong. In time, they'll start paying more attention to continuous loads and will be calling out some of the bigger errors out there - using #4 for an 80A charging load, using #2 NM cable for 80A charging load, etc.
 
Passed inspection today, thanks again for the tip on the insulation. The inspector did tell me that was one of the things he was looking for. He also asked if my ground and neutrals were separate to which of course I said yes. Only took a few minutes.
@FlasherZ, Just out of curiosity, how far away does the insulation need to be from the subpanel, wires feeding 14-50 outlets, wires feeding 5-20, etc.?
 
@FlasherZ, Just out of curiosity, how far away does the insulation need to be from the subpanel, wires feeding 14-50 outlets, wires feeding 5-20, etc.?

Insulation is only a matter for SER (service-entrance) cable, whose ampacity depends on whether it's installed in insulation or not. NM cable must always be used at the 60 degC rating (which is why #2 NM/Romex cable doesn't work for an HPWC 80A install). wire-in-conduit, along with receptacles in boxes, subpanels, etc., can be packed with insulation.

Article 338 of the Code related to SER cable simply says "where installed in thermal insulation", left up to interpretation by the inspector. In my experience, the inspectors typically interpret this to mean if the cable touches insulation.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: MorrisonHiker
I am about to install an HPWC and intent to buy a white 80A EVoReel from EvoCharge https://www.evocharge.com/uploaded/EVoCharge_Product_Brochure_XI-08C.pdf
The price reasonable, especially with a $1000 charger rebate in Ontario Canada.

Excellent ... this is exactly what I am looking for :cool:

upload_2016-6-18_11-59-34.png
 
My installation was done today. I had originally planned to get only one NEMA14-30 for a variety of reasons I have discussed and rationalized over at another thread. But as it turns out, my existing main service panel had no space left and the maker went out of business which made getting compatible breakers impossible. Long story short I ended up redesigning the entire project and doing the following (in case this is helpful for anyone else)
- Added a new 100 Amp subpanel
- Drew out two new Romex #4 on two new 100Amp breakers from the main panel to the new subpanel. Had to move some appliance breaker circuits from main panel to new subpanel to make space for the 100Amp breakers
- Put the Tesla HPWC on one dedicated 100Amp line from the main panel
- Put a NEMA14-50 on a 50 Amp breaker

Observations:
Romex #4 are a huge PITA to work with, you get a solid burn wrestling with those in tight spaces, its very hard to maneuver it inside the new HPWC L1/L2 points with rear entry. Specially with so many extremely fragile electronic circuit wires in the vicinity. Tesla should absolutely put those in a ribbon cable or some sort of protective sheath.
The Dip switches are at 1:ON, 2:ON by default. This is not the correct config for household 240V circuits - 1:OFF, 2:ON is the correct config. This is poorly illustrated in the tesla manual. It is called out in a table but there is scope for improvement - I am a design guy and I can vouch that a picture is the BEST illustration instead of lines, tables, matrices. Of course I did not read the manual since I like to guess everything by observation and race ahead (yeah, i violated RTFM :D). So when I powered on the HPWC went to 3 red flashes, which means wrong dip switch setting. So yeah, a quick 30 sec call to Tesla and everything was in order.

Main Panel with two new Romex #4 capable rated at 100Amp.

View attachment 180220

View attachment 180221
New subpanel and HPWC on the side (HPWC not on this subpanel, but on a dedicated 100 Amp from the main service panel)

View attachment 180222

Final pictures, drywall refinishing and painting next. And yes I got gecko's toes from Amazon mentioned upthread. I wont like the HPWC wire banging up on the drywall and gathering paint dust.

View attachment 180223

Now what is this white wire circled in the pic below, it was frayed right out of the box and I could not find any termination point where it could have gone. Is it an extra placeholder just in case the one of the other fragile wires get damaged ? So as to not discard the entire cable and reuse it perhaps ?
View attachment 180226

Quoting my own original post for reference (many more discussion items thereafter). Inspection passed today, not much was checked. I explained what has been done, what wire types were used (THNN #4 in drywall, no insulation inside, and passing through wooden frames in two points). Breaker box and connections were checked. That's all..:confused: don't know if I should be happy or thinking why the heck did I spend money ($300) to get inspection done when not much was checked at all!!
I mean, I am not happy with the inspection methodologies and details therein, it does not protect me as a consumer or educates me in addition to keeping my electrician honest.
Of course the work may be all per code (NEC or local regulation compliance). I was just asked if the electrician was satisfactory and I trust his work..I believe the electrician already sent in relevant details and talked to the inspector in the morning. Again, everything may be per code (I am 90% sure it is) but forum members here discussed and educated me and even cautioned me to potential NEC compliance pitfalls 100X times more than the guy I hired + inspector.

/endRant
 
Last edited:
Quoting my own original post for reference (many more discussion items thereafter). Inspection passed today, not much was checked. I explained what has been done, what wire types were used (THNN #4 in drywall, no insulation inside, and passing through wooden frames in two points). Breaker box and connections were checked. That's all..:confused: don't know if I should be happy or thinking why the heck did I spend money ($300) to get inspection done when not much was checked at all!!
I mean, I am not happy with the inspection methodologies and details therein, it does not protect me as a consumer or educates me in addition to keeping my electrician honest.
Of course the work may be all per code (NEC or local regulation compliance). I was just asked if the electrician was satisfactory and I trust his work..I believe the electrician already sent in relevant details and talked to the inspector in the morning. Again, everything may be per code (I am 90% sure it is) but forum members here discussed and educated me and even cautioned me to potential NEC compliance pitfalls 100X times more than the guy I hired + inspector.

/endRant
Heh, I felt the same way when I did my solar panels. I'm pretty sure if I explained to the inspector that a magical unicorn was in the attic and connects the panels to the inverter, he would have nodded and checked me off. He didn't even so much as look at the connections to the breakers in the panel, even when I tried to show him.
 
Heh, I felt the same way when I did my solar panels. I'm pretty sure if I explained to the inspector that a magical unicorn was in the attic and connects the panels to the inverter, he would have nodded and checked me off. He didn't even so much as look at the connections to the breakers in the panel, even when I tried to show him.
Same guy did my solar inspection. The one thing he does check is if the wire connections are loose or not. Tugs at two three wires, signs off and bang $300 earned! I want a job that pays $3600/hr ($300/5min).
Oh and after the inspection of the solar install the idiot electrician who did my solar left wires on other breakers literally unscrewed and barely making contact with the breaker. Inspection you say? Tick tick tick off!!
When the HPWC installation was being done touching the breakers caused few wires to pop out, my electrician almost fainted and was in shock for few minutes.
 
Quoting my own original post for reference (many more discussion items thereafter). Inspection passed today, not much was checked. I explained what has been done, what wire types were used (THNN #4 in drywall, no insulation inside, and passing through wooden frames in two points). Breaker box and connections were checked. That's all..:confused: don't know if I should be happy or thinking why the heck did I spend money ($300) to get inspection done when not much was checked at all!!
I mean, I am not happy with the inspection methodologies and details therein, it does not protect me as a consumer or educates me in addition to keeping my electrician honest.
Of course the work may be all per code (NEC or local regulation compliance). I was just asked if the electrician was satisfactory and I trust his work..I believe the electrician already sent in relevant details and talked to the inspector in the morning. Again, everything may be per code (I am 90% sure it is) but forum members here discussed and educated me and even cautioned me to potential NEC compliance pitfalls 100X times more than the guy I hired + inspector.

/endRant

I'm confused how you are 90% sure the work was to code when it clearly is not? It is unfortunate that your inspection cost that much and they did such a poor job protecting you from the poor work done by your electrician. As noted above in this thread my inspection was very brief as well and the inspector pretty much took my word since I had the right answers to his questions. But he did just assume I used the correct wire, he didn't even ask that question.

If you've already paid your electrician that is unfortunate. The best course of action for you is probably to replace your 100A breaker with one suitable for the wire that is installed and update the breaker setting on the Wall Connector. Either that or replace the wire which would be much more expensive.
 
I'm confused how you are 90% sure the work was to code when it clearly is not? It is unfortunate that your inspection cost that much and they did such a poor job protecting you from the poor work done by your electrician. As noted above in this thread my inspection was very brief as well and the inspector pretty much took my word since I had the right answers to his questions. But he did just assume I used the correct wire, he didn't even ask that question.

If you've already paid your electrician that is unfortunate. The best course of action for you is probably to replace your 100A breaker with one suitable for the wire that is installed and update the breaker setting on the Wall Connector. Either that or replace the wire which would be much more expensive.
My X will draw 48 A max so I would dial down the HPWC as a remedy. Wouldn't just that work out fine if the HPWC is not drawing large amperage..