When will we have a Basic Minimum Income?

[bkp_duke]

Um, as a physician you have the duty to do what's best for your patients. Making your own economic analysis, regardless how trivial it seems to you, to self-justify denying medication is exactly the issue.

A couple of tenets of the Hippocratic Oath (I teach and differentiate the Hippocratic Oath from other professions' ethical tenets.):

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

Doctor, who exactly appointed you JUDGE of who is "abusing" the system???

I am not restricting access to anything, myself and the 90% of physicians that do not write prescriptions for OVER THE COUNTER medications simply will not provide a cost-saving benefit that is not available to private insurance patients.

You can appoint your self judge and jury, and I really don't care, but there is nothing immoral (the patients can go buy a $3 bottle of Tylenol WITHOUT a prescription like everyone else) or illegal or against my oath.

I have NEVER prevented anyone from obtaining a prescription for non-OTC medication that was necessary to treat any medical condition.

You can disagree all you like, call me names, but you should realize that your doctors likely won't do this either. Go ahead, ask them.

 

[bkp_duke]

This is a great write-up on why many of us won't write these:
Requiring a prescription for OTC products is a waste of physician time


In addition to what I have said previously, I would never assume the legal responsibility of writing for a prescription for Tylenol, etc. for a patient. Do this a thousand times, someone is bound to mis-treat themselves and I could be on the hook for their mis-administration of medication.

 

[rxlawdude]

This is a great write-up on why many of us won't write these:
Requiring a prescription for OTC products is a waste of physician time


In addition to what I have said previously, I would never assume the legal responsibility of writing for a prescription for Tylenol, etc. for a patient. Do this a thousand times, someone is bound to mis-treat themselves and I could be on the hook for their mis-administration of medication.

You're justifying not writing because you feel that Medicaid patients are something less deserving than paying patients. Your link justifies physicians that whine it takes an extra 30 seconds to scribble or eprescribe a prescription due to the cost.

That's the cost to you. The cost to you should, if you follow the Oath, not be the relevant inquiry.

And if a medication isn't "non-essential" (even if merely over the counter), you are correct to not advise patients to take it. But this story was about you proudly declaring you deny writing a prescription for a medication that presumably you deemed essential enough to advise the patient to consume. You just tell your patients to buy it otc at their own expense because you resent tax dollars being spent. Again, not in the spirit of patient care.

Nice.

 

[bkp_duke]

You're justifying not writing because you feel that Medicaid patients are something less deserving than paying patients. Your link justifies physicians that whine it takes an extra 30 seconds to scribble or eprescribe a prescription due to the cost.

That's the cost to you. The cost to you should, if you follow the Oath, not be the relevant inquiry.

And if a medication isn't "non-essential" (even if merely over the counter), you are correct to not advise patients to take it. But this story was about you proudly declaring you deny writing a prescription for a medication that presumably you deemed essential enough to advise the patient to consume. You just tell your patients to buy it otc at their own expense because you resent tax dollars being spent. Again, not in the spirit of patient care.

Nice.

I never said I advised the patients to take one of these medications. Go back and RE-READ what I wrote. You are making assumptions of the facts that don't exist. They would ASK for the scripts.

I.e. - "In case we need it, can you write us a script for Tylenol" to have on hand. This was extremely common, and we all (well, 90%) turned them down. If that makes me cruel, then I'm in good company.

I presume you are a laywer given your handle's name. Your profession requires you to have better reading comprehension.

 

[rxlawdude]

I never said I advised the patients to take one of these medications. Go back and RE-READ what I wrote. You are making assumptions of the facts that don't exist. They would ASK for the scripts.

I.e. - "In case we need it, can you write us a script for Tylenol" to have on hand. This was extremely common, and we all (well, 90%) turned them down. If that makes me cruel, then I'm in good company.

I presume you are a laywer given your handle's name. Your profession requires you to have better reading comprehension.

You're backpedaling. Let's do a more specific query:
1. Did you ever refuse to write a prescription for an OTC med you RECOMMENDED for a patient that was using a medical flexible spending account so the patient could use pre-tax dollars to pay?
2. Did you ever refuse to write a prescription for an OTC med you RECOMMENDED for a patient that was on MediCal?

What's a laywer?

 

[tomas]

What's a laywer?

I dunno but on basis of last post, if I'm ever in trouble I'm calling you.

 

[ohmman]

Maybe discussion in PM would be a better way to continue this doctor/lawyer feud. Please?

 

[bkp_duke]

You're backpedaling. Let's do a more specific query:
1. Did you ever refuse to write a prescription for an OTC med you RECOMMENDED for a patient that was using a medical flexible spending account so the patient could use pre-tax dollars to pay?
2. Did you ever refuse to write a prescription for an OTC med you RECOMMENDED for a patient that was on MediCal?

What's a laywer?

1) no (ironically if I said take Tylenol, they had it on hand, not once did someone ask under those circumstances)
2) not applicable, never practiced in CA. Had gone into business by the time I moved here.

 

[bkp_duke]

Maybe discussion in PM would be a better way to continue this doctor/lawyer feud. Please?

Happily

 

[rxlawdude]

Maybe discussion in PM would be a better way to continue this doctor/lawyer feud. Please?

Thanks, Ohmman, I'm done.

 

[bhzmark]

back on topic. Here's an interesting article about how Hillary Clinton considered making Universal basic income part of her platform

Hillary Clinton almost ran for president on a universal basic income

 

[bkp_duke]

back on topic. Here's an interesting article about how Hillary Clinton considered making Universal basic income part of her platform

Hillary Clinton almost ran for president on a universal basic income

This pretty much sums up why she abandoned the idea:
"So why didn’t it happen? From Clinton's telling, the proposal was abandoned due to one of the recurring sticking points with basic income plans: They cost a lot of money. Clinton wanted to provide a "meaningful" dividend, and didn't think she could do it with a realistic set of new taxes."

 

[Skotty]

This pretty much sums up why she abandoned the idea:
"So why didn’t it happen? From Clinton's telling, the proposal was abandoned due to one of the recurring sticking points with basic income plans: They cost a lot of money. Clinton wanted to provide a "meaningful" dividend, and didn't think she could do it with a realistic set of new taxes."

Because it's a terrible idea....at this time. Kind of like Bernie's free college thing (make it affordable with sufficient tuition assistance programs, sure; make it free, I don't think so). Those on the left are trying to jump too far too fast, those on the right have gone insane and forgotten what decency and character are (if you need a reminder, see John McCain or Mitt Romney, both who only lost because they were proceeded by another R president and Obama was a superfly dude), and the current abomination -- I mean administration is the result.

BMI is a "lets talk about the future" thing. Trying to do it for real at the present time is not going to fly. Helping the working man plans need to be carefully crafted and slowly implemented so as not to backfire and make the working man start voting against himself due to offending his ideology.

 

[nwdiver]

This pretty much sums up why she abandoned the idea:
"So why didn’t it happen? From Clinton's telling, the proposal was abandoned due to one of the recurring sticking points with basic income plans: They cost a lot of money. Clinton wanted to provide a "meaningful" dividend, and didn't think she could do it with a realistic set of new taxes."

I saw a poll somewhere that ~3.1% of TMC members think we'll have a BMI in ~5 years... so most people obviously don't think a BMI makes sense TODAY.

We're getting close. IMO it'll be viable in ~5-10 years and economically necessary in 20 unless we do the Amish 2.0 thing. Then the question would be how does trade work when non-Amish countries can make a widget for 1/1000th the cost that we can.

 

[kort677]

FYI:
The Single-Payer Siren Song

 

[MikeQ]

This pretty much sums up why she abandoned the idea:
"So why didn’t it happen? From Clinton's telling, the proposal was abandoned due to one of the recurring sticking points with basic income plans: They cost a lot of money. Clinton wanted to provide a "meaningful" dividend, and didn't think she could do it with a realistic set of new taxes."

The only reason the alaska model works is because of huge oil revenues and a state population that's smaller than most mid-sized cities.

The thing I wonder is why would an American corporation stay in America if the were suddenly told they are going to incur a high tax to pay people not to work. I'm pretty sure you'd see most mid to large corporations immediately do an inversion or just outright leave the country for a more business friendly environment.

 

[nwdiver]

I for one welcome our robot maestros...

 

[GoTslaGo]

I for one welcome our robot maestros...

Rolly eyes in the corner?

 

[ohmman]

Rolly eyes in the corner?

View attachment 247886

Looks more like fear of the ceiling robot.

 

[DragonWatch]

FYI:
The Single-Payer Siren Song

Can you by chance provide a version of this for those of us too cheap to subscribe?