Why did you get FSD?

[Sawyer8888]

I'm interested what other mindset people have that caused them to make a different decision.

There are a lot of threads on this topic. It's certainly an interesting question that provides insight into the rationale of many owners and prospective owners.

Whether FSD is 3% or 6% of your cost, it's still $3,000+ that is no longer liquid in your bank account.

Given everything we know, paying for FSD today is a mistake in my opinion.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

On top of this, financially, if FSD is two years away, then giving Tesla $3,000 now doesn't make any sense to me. You pay sales tax on that now, in some states you'll pay more for yearly registration, and if you have a loan you're paying interest on it. Yes, there is the threat by Tesla that it will be $4,000 in the future, but wouldn't you rather pay $4,000 in two years for something that actually exists and you know what you are buying instead of a complete unknown today?

I'm interested what other mindset people have that caused them to make a different decision.

For me, I'll have to pay tax regardless of when FSD is purchased. Some people also mentioned they would pay more for insurance if they purchased it after because it's considered an accessory. On the flip side, if it's included in the cost of the car, it would depreciate at the same rate as the car, which I'm guessing an accessory wouldn't.

Will you buy FSD on your 3 at purchase?

I'm also guessing that Tesla will charge more for it once it's up and running. The only situation I can think of where they would decrease the cost is competition from other manufacturers, but so far they're the king of the hill. If they really can't deliver on FSD after a reasonable amount of time, my guess is that they would have to refund the purchase price.

All I can say is that anyone who bought into the FSD myth did not understand the fact that, even if Tesla gets around to making it work properly, legislation will hamper acceptance on this for at least 5 years, maybe more. By the time vehicles can use FSD, the current Teslas will be off the road anyway due to age and being obsolete and new ones will be out.

I doubt legislation would hamper FSD as described on Tesla's website, which I read as a Level 3 autonomous system. GM's supercruise is a limited example that's already being sold. Sure, if Tesla gets to Level 4 or 5, there might be some issues, but Level 4 or 5 isn't what Tesla's describing as FSD. It'd be great if Tesla offered Level 4 or 5 with FSD, but I wouldn't count on it.

And the post-purchase S60 to S75 software upgrade went from $9000 to $6000 and currently $2000 in less than a year. No one outside the walls of Tesla can possible know what the post-purchase cost of FSD will be in a year or two. It could be more, the same — or less. My wallet is betting on less.

S60s being software limited S75 is a sunk cost for Tesla. They've already spent whatever to build the cars, so it's better that they make something than nothing. FSD on the other hand is something that will require ongoing development and maintenance, which Tesla needs to fund from somewhere.

 

[drawfour]

I doubt legislation would hamper FSD as described on Tesla's website, which I read as a Level 3 autonomous system. GM's supercruise is a limited example that's already being sold. Sure, if Tesla gets to Level 4 or 5, there might be some issues, but Level 4 or 5 isn't what Tesla's describing as FSD. It'd be great if Tesla offered Level 4 or 5 with FSD, but I wouldn't count on it.

You make a good point. The text for full self drive from the Tesla website on AutoPilot says:

The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.

The key is that the person is still in the driver's seat. That's L3. L4 is when there doesn't have to be a driver.

 

[croman]

You make a good point. The text for full self drive from the Tesla website on AutoPilot says:

The key is that the person is still in the driver's seat. That's L3. L4 is when there doesn't have to be a driver.

No, you have the SAE levels incorrect.

0 - standard card
1 - ACC
2 - AP
3 - use phone/tablet, be awake and ready to take over
4 - can sleep but must be present and available in emergency
5- no presence required (no pedals/steering wheel)

Tesla's FSD is level 4 minumum. Elon is on record saying Level 5. the FSD video emphasizes L4/5 capability (driver only present for regulatory purposes is dead give away for L4/5 and NOT Level 3 where driver is system back up).

What hampers Tesla's FSD is a lack of backups for their systems. Cruise and Waymo have redundancies, sometimes triple redundancies.

Finally, FSD price can change at any time. Tesla did this with AP1. It increased it from $2500 to $3k overnight. The example of battery upgrade prices declining is a laughable comparison because the actual cost/value was sunk in by Tesla and they just wanted to unlock some of that cash flow they'd already sunk into the cars. Plus batteries are a commodity and drop in price.

Once FSD features start rolling out (they will come in stages and NOT all at once), they will have compelling value. Tesla will maximize that value. They've proven that their bean counters are very savvy at separate people from their hard earned cash. Expect that $4k price to skyrocket.

Lastly, Tesla rewards the faithful. They are on record that they will upgrade hardware.

That all being said, I bought in 2016 before I knew the reality. I would never buy FSD. Its even better to spend $10k in the future rather than throw $3k away on this. Tesla is so far behind. I know @gearchruncher and I know the pain we've all felt watching Tesla bumble around with L2 EAP. Its pathetic that 18 months after I bought EAP its barely at AP parity...

FSD might never happen but if it does, don't count on Tesla being charitable and sticking with the $4k price for those that didn't buy. That's an option contract and you didn't exercise your option while the window was open. Tesla puts in its T&C that it can change the price without notice. Its a gamble either way. I bet when I didn't have all the facts. I'd wager against Tesla at this point and be very happy to be wrong. Currently I've bet on Tesla and Elon isn't the only one with egg on his face.

 

[75Shappyt]

I got a 2017 MS 75, I got the showroom discount, so bought EAP with that money, never drove a car with AP1, so I don't know the difference, I do like what I have, can someone fill me in, I hope I didn't waste the money,

 

[Cheburashka]

You only waste money if you buy FSD (Full Self Driving). It's a product that doesn't exist and Tesla is lagging far behind other manufacturers in implementing this.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

No, you have the SAE levels incorrect.

0 - standard card
1 - ACC
2 - AP
3 - use phone/tablet, be awake and ready to take over
4 - can sleep but must be present and available in emergency
5- no presence required (no pedals/steering wheel)

Tesla's FSD is level 4 minumum. Elon is on record saying Level 5. the FSD video emphasizes L4/5 capability (driver only present for regulatory purposes is dead give away for L4/5 and NOT Level 3 where driver is system back up).

Can you link to where Tesla describes FSD as L4/5 on their website?

 

[croman]

Can you link to where Tesla describes FSD as L4/5 on their website?

The website is there. Their description is only L4 or 5. L3 is insufficient for what they describe FSD brings in terms of features. EAP is L3 when it has all it's features for highways.

Also this has been discussed to death and the information lies in those other threads. Do some research in the autonomous vehicle and model S fora.

 

[gearchruncher]

Can you link to where Tesla describes FSD as L4/5 on their website?

When the FSD was first demonstrated (557 days ago!), Elon tweeted this:

When you want your car to return, tap Summon on your phone. It will eventually find you even if you are on the other side of the country

That's L5, full stop.

Also, right from Tesla's website:

When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.

So they say it will go park by itself (nobody in the car) and that it can be used for ride sharing (no driver there).

Of course, it also says "details of which will be released next year" but it's said this for 557 days now, covering two "next years" already, without a peep.

 

[TT97]

While Full Level 5 is the end goal; it does not mean they will not release FSD until they reach Level 5. Just as EAP is still missing features promised, FSD will be released by piecemeal. I believe the first FSD will be released on limited access freeways during right conditions.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

When the FSD was first demonstrated (557 days ago!), Elon tweeted this:



That's L5, full stop.

Also, right from Tesla's website:





So they say it will go park by itself (nobody in the car) and that it can be used for ride sharing (no driver there).

Of course, it also says "details of which will be released next year" but it's said this for 557 days now, covering two "next years" already, without a peep.

I think you're mixing details of Elon's goals for autonomous driving, autopark, and the Tesla network together.

FSD should include autopark in parking lots, but that's not Level 4 or 5 in general. Based on the description on Tesla's site, everything outside of autoparking in parking lots requires a driver, which is Level 3.

I'd love to see something from Tesla saying you could sleep in your car while it drives you someplace, or that your car can drive itself to the airport to pick you up, but none of that is mentioned in the FSD description.

Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

The website is there. Their description is only L4 or 5. L3 is insufficient for what they describe FSD brings in terms of features. EAP is L3 when it has all it's features for highways.

Also this has been discussed to death and the information lies in those other threads. Do some research in the autonomous vehicle and model S fora.

I'm looking for something from Tesla stating or implying the FSD as offered will be Level 4 or 5 autonomous driving. The way Tesla describes FSD on the website is Level 3(The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat).

If Tesla says FSD will allow you to sleep in the backseat (Level 4) or have your car pick you up from the airport (Level 5), that's different. Well, unless you're driving is 100% in parking lots. In that case FSD is Level 5.

Build upon Enhanced Autopilot and order Full Self-Driving Capability on your Tesla. This doubles the number of active cameras from four to eight, enabling full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at what we believe will be a probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver. The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.

All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you.

Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.

 

[croman]

I'm looking for something from Tesla stating or implying the FSD as offered will be Level 4 or 5 autonomous driving. The way Tesla describes FSD on the website is Level 3(The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat).

If Tesla says FSD will allow you to sleep in the backseat (Level 4) or have your car pick you up from the airport (Level 5), that's different. Well, unless you're driving is 100% in parking lots. In that case FSD is Level 5.

How can the car auto park with no one in the car? Or anything else.

What are you asking exactly? It's clearly L4 or 5 depending on the feature advertised. It supposedly can do ride share. That's L5 auto taxi.

Summon back to me at a tap. Again, L5 as no one is in the car.... Hopefully no need to continue belaboring this point further.

 

[gearchruncher]

I'd love to see something from Tesla saying you could sleep in your car while it drives you someplace, or that your car can drive itself to the airport to pick you up, but none of that is mentioned in the FSD description.

What is ride hailing if not a vehicle that comes and picks you up?

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

How can the car auto park with no one in the car? Or anything else.

What are you asking exactly? It's clearly L4 or 5 depending on the feature advertised. It supposedly can do ride share. That's L5 auto taxi.

Summon back to me at a tap. Again, L5 as no one is in the car.... Hopefully no need to continue belaboring this point further.

If your definition of Level 5 is whether a car can do anything without a driver, EAP's already there with Summon.

I think most people, myself included, view Level 4/5 driving as the car being able to drive someplace over roads, highways, and so on without someone in the driver's sear (4) or car (5). I'd love to see Tesla offer that in FSD, but what I've read on the website isn't Level 4/5 outside of in parking lots.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

What is ride hailing if not a vehicle that comes and picks you up?

A ride hailing vehicle is something that comes and picks you up across a wide variety of conditions, roads, and highways. FSD doesn't see to be offering that, but maybe there's something on the website I haven't noticed.

 

[TT97]

A ride hailing vehicle is something that comes and picks you up across a wide variety of conditions, roads, and highways. FSD doesn't see to be offering that, but maybe there's something on the website I haven't noticed.

FSD will (theoretically) ultimately offer ride hailing. If you look at the FSD option in the design studio, the language includes:

"Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

 

[drawfour]

No, you have the SAE levels incorrect.

0 - standard card
1 - ACC
2 - AP
3 - use phone/tablet, be awake and ready to take over
4 - can sleep but must be present and available in emergency
5- no presence required (no pedals/steering wheel)

You see that "ready to take over"? That means there is a driver. I said this:

The key is that the person is still in the driver's seat. That's L3. L4 is when there doesn't have to be a driver.

All I said is L3 means there has to be a driver. The text that I also quoted from the Tesla web site clearly said "driver" and didn't say "passenger". L3 only means that it can be fully autonomous in limited situations, for example "highway driving". For L4, there is no concept of "can sleep but take over in emergency". If you're asleep and there is an emergency, by the time you wake up to figure out what's going on, you're screwed. If you mean "can sleep, and if the car encounters a situation it is unsure of how to handle, it will alert you but will make sure to pull over safely", then sure. L4 is meant to handle stuff like driving on all marked streets with traffic lights and stop signs, but maybe not on dirt/unmarked roads. L5 is all situations. I assume that even means driving up the Himalayas. And that is something I would not like to be a passenger in a L5 or with a human driver.

 

[Tiger]

Once FSD is ready I won't need to own a car anymore. I'll simply hail a FSD Tesla Uber for whatever errand I need.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The only justifiable reason I've heard is they pay it because they want to support the efforts to bring FSD to reality.

For a lot of Model S/X owners it's not a lot of money, and they're not all that concerned.

I probably would do it if Tesla gave updates, and blogged about the progress. If it was like a kickstarter kind of thing where you could feel involved with it. Like I pledged on a glowing plant awhile ago on Kickstarter. Nothing much became of it, but it was highly educational as they kept giving updates on where they were and how they were approaching the obstacles.

My impression of the FSD option was one of disbelief. It was one more thing that made me feel like our very reality broke in 2016 because there was no timeline for any of it. There also wasn't a regulatory or technical path to accomplishing it. Nothing felt grounded about the entire FSD option.

it makes more sense to think about the option emotionally, and not logically.

Emotionally Tesla is really the only car company with any plans to come out with Self-Driving cars for private owners. Everyone else is likely going to stick with fleets because of all the headaches involved with self-driving cars, and keeping things updated/maintained/etc.

I say this is an emotional thing because I don't think it's going to work. It's more of a "lets build it, and see what happens" field of dreams kind of thing.

The other emotional factor is to be a part of something. I'm glad I bought my Model S in 2015 so I could experience Supercharging while it was still in its infancy. It was this fun adventure I can tell my robot kids about someday.

Sometimes in life you do stupid things not because you didn't know better, but because you went along with something ridiculous purely because that ridiculous was also part of something amazing.

Life isn't really about getting from Point A to Point B, but about the fun we had along the way. Money tends to be a distraction from the fun we could be having in life.

I don't think any of us here wasn't completely awestruck with the Falcon Heavy launch. It was quiet a feat, but also a bit silly in a way. To launch a Tesla around the orbit of the Sun.

I'm both a logical person, and an emotional person. With FSD the gap between the two was just too far. I say this as someone who spent $10K on an E-Bike. So it really shouldn't have been that hard to get $3K from me.