This is a problem for the very large (and very expensive) cities. Would be nice if Tesla put in more superchargers in the city centers - especially now that they will collect charging fees.
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This is a problem for the very large (and very expensive) cities. Would be nice if Tesla put in more superchargers in the city centers - especially now that they will collect charging fees.
It depends on where one lives, concentration of superchargers and how one feels about waiting or wasting time. Generally trips to mountains don't work with Model S since there are no SCs in remote areas like in national parks/forests and going up a mountain takes a LOT of EV power. Traveling to beach also doesn't work well in my area.
I frequently travel to ATL and going on Model S means 4 supercharges for the round trip. So just for charging that takes 160 min. However the issue in a city like ATL is actually getting to the SC station! That takes longer than the actual charging!
Yes, it's definitely possible to take a Model S to most cities, but frequently it involves significantly additional time commitment, inconvenience; and certain locations are impossible.
I'll bite, since I sold my BMW 330ci to purchase a Tesla.
330ci fuel capacity was 16 gallons (I believe 16.6, but I never put in more that 16). Combined MPG 20 based on my driving. Actually, 19, but I'll round to make it easy. So my "range" was 320 miles.
I drive 60 miles per day. So I was at the gas station roughly every 5.3 days. I just checked my Exxon Speedpass account and it matches this frequency.
Lets say an average of 4 minutes a fill-up. I feel like it is typically more. Sometimes there is a line. Sometimes the station is on the wrong side of the street. Sometimes I go in and purchase a drink. But I think 4 minutes is fair, if not optimistic.
Now I have a S100D. It has, interestingly, 320 miles of range when I charge to 100%. I typically only charge to 80%, so 280 miles. Still enough to easily go my average of 60 miles per day.
Every morning the car is "full". I haven't spent any time at a gas station (not including filling up the 1 gal can for the lawn mower).
I charge at home nightly. I've stopped at a supercharger once on a road trip, for 20 minutes (and used the rest room). Much like when I used to drive the 330ci long distances.
So, the "range" comparison isn't important, as long as one has "enough" range and an easy place to charge.
BTW, I was paying approx $40 per fill-up with the 330ci. $232 per month. I've paid $55 per month for the Tesla model S. Of course, insurance cost and depreciation on an S still makes the S more expensive per mile.
330ci fuel capacity was 16 gallons (I believe 16.6, but I never put in more that 16). Combined MPG 20 based on my driving. Actually, 19, but I'll round to make it easy. So my "range" was 320 miles.
I drive 60 miles per day. So I was at the gas station roughly every 5.3 days. I just checked my Exxon Speedpass account and it matches this frequency.
Lets say an average of 4 minutes a fill-up. I feel like it is typically more. Sometimes there is a line. Sometimes the station is on the wrong side of the street. Sometimes I go in and purchase a drink. But I think 4 minutes is fair, if not optimistic.
Now I have a S100D. It has, interestingly, 320 miles of range when I charge to 100%. I typically only charge to 80%, so 280 miles. Still enough to easily go my average of 60 miles per day.
Every morning the car is "full". I haven't spent any time at a gas station (not including filling up the 1 gal can for the lawn mower).
I charge at home nightly. I've stopped at a supercharger once on a road trip, for 20 minutes (and used the rest room). Much like when I used to drive the 330ci long distances.
So, the "range" comparison isn't important, as long as one has "enough" range and an easy place to charge.
BTW, I was paying approx $40 per fill-up with the 330ci. $232 per month. I've paid $55 per month for the Tesla model S. Of course, insurance cost and depreciation on an S still makes the S more expensive per mile.
Even at present there are chargers all over the place in cities. Gowthamn is apparently from Seattle, so here we go:
And charger deployment is growing exponentially. This is how many have been deployed before 500k Model 3s per year come online - what do you think the map will look like a couple years from now?
And charger deployment is growing exponentially. This is how many have been deployed before 500k Model 3s per year come online - what do you think the map will look like a couple years from now?
Range in and of itself is not a biggie for all ICE vehicles. Mileage can be important though for commuters, especially when fuel costs are high.
Range is significant for vehicles that tow, especially ones that tow heavy, hence the popularity of diesel pickups in the US. While unladen range can hit 700 miles, the true value is when you can go 400 miles while towing at 65 mph.
Range is significant for vehicles that tow, especially ones that tow heavy, hence the popularity of diesel pickups in the US. While unladen range can hit 700 miles, the true value is when you can go 400 miles while towing at 65 mph.
One comedy factor?
We live in the heart of EV-ville in the US. Lots of EVs here.
Somehow, I've seen lots of cars run out of gas. Heck, one today on the way to work.
I imagine EVs can run out juice on the road, but I just haven't seen one yet. Probably since they all topped off right before going to work?
Perhaps some ICE drivers really need a healthy dose of range anxiety?
We live in the heart of EV-ville in the US. Lots of EVs here.
Somehow, I've seen lots of cars run out of gas. Heck, one today on the way to work.
I imagine EVs can run out juice on the road, but I just haven't seen one yet. Probably since they all topped off right before going to work?
Perhaps some ICE drivers really need a healthy dose of range anxiety?
Drucifer
Active Member
We're talking about a car whose base model is $35k, and fully loaded comes in at $60k (not counting AWD, which costs some unknown amount more, or any future performance models, or other packages). BMW, Cadillac and Audi are the competition here. We're not talking about a Yaris.
Feel free to raise that point when Tesla comes out with a ~$20k mainstream EV. But by then there will be 1-2 orders of magnitude more chargers over the large number that already exist.
Nope I´m not talking about any car of any priceclass.
I simply stated that any ev is problematic to handle concerning loading and range for the majority of the population, period.
The situation might be a bit better in the us than in europe and unimaginably better than in asia but the majority of potential future EV drivers will need a vastly different infrastructure than what exists now.
Even if Tesla triples their Supercharger numbers that`s still basically nothing when the target is to bring EVs to the reall mass market.
And when you read in these forums there are a lot of people who seem to completely ignore that and think only inside their own little box.
so again:
for most people the range is pretty damn important when considering a new car. And since it`s still a long way to go until everyone everywhere has instant access to a fast charging spot it will stay that way.
So if the EV community likes it or not range comparisons are absolutely valid for anyone who isn`t a total EV nerd
.Once again you fail to read anything I wrote (e.g., the number of chargers already existing, the rate of scaleup and thus the number that will exist in the future, the percentage of people who can't add in a charger, etc), and instead focus on talking straight past me as if I'm not even part of the conversation.
Given that you've done this in multiple threads, I will no longer be responding to anything you write in any thread, not simply the ones that you've done this in already. Hopefully others will have more patience for your navel gazing than I.
Adding to my ignore list (the only user present there).
For those who use the car as just a work commuter, they never have to sit somewhere and refuel -- they charge at home.
I lost my patience with Tesla and bought another car, but had planned on an ICE for our family car and the Tesla for my day to day commuting, which 220 miles would be plenty without needing to supercharge.
I lost my patience with Tesla and bought another car, but had planned on an ICE for our family car and the Tesla for my day to day commuting, which 220 miles would be plenty without needing to supercharge.
I happen to live in a part of town with apartment buildings built in the 1890s. Large apartments but basically no off-street parking. Therefore it's completely normal to see brand new S-Class Mercedes, Porsches and Range Rovers parked in the street.
I'll stick with statistics over anecdotes (aka, the percentage of BMW's customer base that are potential Tesla customers). Unless your argument is that A) Tesla needs to try to claim 100% of the BWM customer base, immediately, or B) the majority of BMW owners live in apartment buildings built in the 1890s or similar situations.
And besides that: have you ever tried asking if you could pay to install a charger? Try it. Heck, I don't know where you live, there might already be one in your area (although Germany is one of the worst places in the developed world for finding public chargers... the supercharging network is fine, though).
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chronopc
Active Member
Range is meaningless on an ICE because like you said it's super fast to refuel compared to charging.
What should be compared when comparing 2 EVs is charging options. For example if you compare the base Model 3 to the base Bolt you will see the Bolt has a slightly better range (238 vs 220). But if you take into account the charging speed at a Tesla supercharger vs. any other type of charging network, you will see that on a long road-trip you will always get there faster with the Model 3.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Tesla wants to build one million cars a year by 2020. Is that mainstream ? It works out to 1.25% of the market
Or put another way, are there 1 million people a year in the world with the desire, money, and charging solutions to buy a Tesla ?
Just in the US there are about 50-70 million homeowners.
Much like you, thinking inside your own little box.
There you go again, using "most people" to refer to yourself and some arbitrary population you defined. In reality "most" doesn't matter.
Maybe EV doesn't make sense for you right now. But there are 68.9 million single family detached homes in the US per the 2000 US Census. That is quite a few, even if perhaps it isn't greater than 50% of the population.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Gowthamn is rationalizing his decision to stick with an ICE. If it is not this excuse it will be another.
Have you shown us any dedicated statistics of that kind? No, you pull up some more or less random numbers and boldly declare that these represent "the percentage of BMW's customer base that are potential Tesla customers" - quite apart from high quality comments like beemer owners and their ghetto flats..
Anyway, where am I supposed to have that charger installed? At a lamppost out in the street?
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