Why I recommend AGAINST buying a Tesla

[Bet TSLA]

Let me get this straight, you base decisions on what happened in the past and ignore what you consider logical future risks? Feel free to ignore relevant information and “Bet TSLA” as you username makes clearly obvious that you do but don’t condescend to others.

I have to admit that given the choice: "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your own eyes?" I tend to go with my own eyes. You, of course, are welcome to believe whatever MUS impresses you most. Sheesh! Got rid of the best car there is because somebody on the intertubes told him it might make him sad one day.

 

[mattwhite]

I have to admit that given the choice: "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your own eyes?" I tend to go with my own eyes. You, of course, are welcome to believe whatever MUS impresses you most. Sheesh! Got rid of the best car there is because somebody on the intertubes told him it might make him sad one day.

It's interesting to me that you feel the need to criticize other people's decision-making processes so vehemently, and that you seem so assured that your analyses are correct. My experience with people like you is that they're invariably insecure about their own choices and feel threatened by anyone who posits a differing opinion. Chill out, nobody's forcing or even suggesting that you sell your Tesla, you're free to keep it as long as you like, but that doesn't mean other people's judgment on this same issue won't be different.

 

[Ken7]

It’s not anymore complicated than a tesla.

And I believe it is, so we’ll agree to disagree.

 

[aronth5]

Sure...
That's why he typed out such a very long and detailed post. Your having never supercharged doesn't invalidate his concerns.
My battery volts haven't been capped, but I'm well aware of the capping that's been implemented. Just because it hasn't affected me personally doesn't mean it's not a real concern and a very good reason to distrust Tesla.

I don't disagree with your reply at all it just that clickbait news headlines and this thread title with the word "against" in all capital letters are unnecessary.

 

[BulldogsRus]

I w

Half as far on paper
Three fourths of the way in real life
The same in a couple years when Tesla pushes a SW update to "fix" something.

Tesla also doesn't have what I'd consider a direct competitor to the Taycan.

The P3D is way cheaper, and really a different class of car. I got this when it became apparent that the Taycan wouldn't come in anywhere close in price/specs as it was supposed to be.

The Model S is still waiting for it's track focused plaid version. It's so bad with the Model S that Elon referred to it as basically a legacy product.

Porsche will likely get a quite a few orders from angry Model S owners especially if Porsche can be more competitive price wise.

I wonder how many S and X owners would've actually jumped in say 4-7 years ago knowing this, everything I've read is that early adopters were treated like royalty and now because of the 3 (and probably Y as well), they've become an afterthought and pushed aside. I find it odd that the very people who in theory have made the company what it is today, are getting the short end for actually spending more money and believing in the technology.

 

[BulldogsRus]

ROFL! If OP hates charging, he's going to have a hell of a time with 201 mile / 488 Wh rated Taycan. Add in 80 mph driving, and 90-10% SoC and he'll be recharging every 100 miles.

Truth be told, cars in that price range are usually not daily drivers, and let's be honest that interior is IMHO is nicer. Having said that, if the base model arriving next year can keep the same interior amenities at the rumored mid-80s starting price, Tesla may need to expedite a refresh.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Low cost of ownership, looks great, silent, free unlimited supercharging, free unlimited premium connectivity, nice big screen, oh and it farts.

Not all S owners can claim that though...

 

[Newscutter]

I'll just toss my 2 cents onto the pile, since so many "fanbois" are chiming in claiming that the OP is unreasonable or making things up.

I've have my car since May 2014 and have been a vocal proponent of the company on my blog and Twitter. I wrote a number of articles and reviews for Teslarati and I'm the admin of our local Facebook group. You can click through my post history or my footer for my "credentials."

I've done "all the right things" re: my battery and have the benefit of comprehensive knowledge about the car and the experiences of many of my fellow local owners, many of whom I know of their complete service history. We were the "frontier" of the Tesla wave back in 2014 and absent reliable Ranger service or local facilities, we had to support each other... forming a strong bond in our group.

The MCU having a fatal flaw that Tesla refuses to repair (only offering full $$ replacement) is not debatable. That is a fact.
The capping and charge rate alterations are not debatable. They are fact.
Tesla removing functions from older cars for no reason other than neglect (TPMS reset and removal of battery preconditioning) or malfeasance is not debatable. That is a fact.

The ethical/moral question regarding whether they have the right/obligation to alter the core functionality of a car to prolong it and escape warranty claims all depends on your point of view.

I bought a car (and some stock), but I didn't buy it with the expectation or intention of giving the company a pass on their product. It absolutely is the best car I've ever had and I love it-- and still fully intend to run it until it drops-- but the software downgrades are a major concern and I've begun tempering my recommendations with the caveat that the spec sheet only reflects current marketing.

That everything about the car is subject to change for the entirety of ownership was, at first, hugely exciting. But now I am experiencing the dark side of that. AS WILL ALL OF YOU EVENTUALLY. <-- not a fact, but a very safe deduction, if the current legal challenges to Tesla's actions are not resolved favorably to owners.

There also needs to be some serious doses of reality for some of you. Again, few were as vocal in their enthusiasm for the cars than I have been, but I've also tried to hard to avoid a swerve into cult territory and have a long history of criticisms where I felt it was necessary. And the idea that "just a few minutes more" on a road trip, at each charging session, is acceptable... well, that is NOT a fact. My time has value, especially when my car is full of family who ALSO value their time.

For all the drama-queen statements about how you'd do anything to avoid gas, I don't agree. I've always insisted that the Tesla must serve FIRST as a good car and second as an EV. Since Tesla compromised my charging, I did the quick mental math on our yearly Thanksgiving journey that I could make an absolutely effortless road trip in my Subaru (which is quieter and has better seats, among other perks) for a single stop and about $50 in gas, compared to hours of charging and worrying about range being affected by snow/ice/wind. The Tesla has usually made this trip -- but no more. Yeah, I had to touch a gas pump... but really, get over yourselves. It's not ebola. I saved at least 2 hours in travel time on a 10 hour trip (roundtrip), as estimated by a friend who took the same route, in the same config, a few days earlier. $50 well spent, even without factoring the peace of mind knowing I could make my destination nonstop if I wanted to. Tesla Pittsburgh on Twitter

My Tesla remains the car of choice for regional trips (like fetching my son from college later this week-- which used to require just 20 minutes at the Supercharger but now requires about 45+, though the display blatantly lies now: Tesla Pittsburgh on Twitter), but I think the era of long distance travel is over because my Outback is just way better at it... 10 minutes and I'm gone and without any concerns or mental fatigue trying to figure out how far I'll get.
That is **NOT** what I was buying into back in 2014.... the dream isn't dead, but it's definitely disabled.

After 5+ plus years of loving my Tesla, I've come to the conclusion that local/regional/daily commutes are hands-down dominated by the Tesla (until there's a viable competitor), but the actions of the company in the last year or so are helping me rediscover the joys and ease of long-distance travel by gas. I save so much during the year, that I can spare a couple bucks when time matters.

That is Tesla's current legacy in my family. I hope they work harder in the future to change it. They are leaving the door WIDE OPEN to lose many of their earliest supporters if another mousetrap comes along.

 

[kkillebrew]

I don't blame you for being mad. Kind of like marriage and divorce... we stand up and say one thing, then one or both fail. Then we have to get over it and go on.

"Bitter! ...Bitter, table for one".

 

[BulldogsRus]

The fact that a complicated device, with far more moving parts, has been around for years doesn’t make it less complicated.

...because replacing an engine in a car is rare, few people ever experience this. Usually it is a part only, not the entire block.

 

[Az_Rael]

I Obviously don’t have experience with the Tesla but even if I have to pay for a new battery and motors. I think still ahead vs a BMW //M car with transmission / clutch / electrical issues and brakes which are very common problems. I would still upgrade Tesla to something else before running out of warranty. Which is what I’ve done with BMW. Never again out of warranty.

Yeah, this S60 owner had a pretty painful out of warranty experience after buying a used S60 in Jan. What to do?!?!? 2013 Model S 60 Battery fail

I am guessing Teslas will soon have similar depreciation rates to the high end BMWs and Mercedes as more people find out how much they cost out of warranty.

 

[Battpower]

I've done "all the right things" re: my battery and have the benefit of comprehensive knowledge about the car

The MCU having a fatal flaw that Tesla refuses to repair

The capping and charge rate alterations

Tesla removing functions from older cars

The ethical/moral question regarding whether they have the right/obligation to alter the core functionality of a car

But now I am experiencing the dark side of that. AS WILL ALL OF YOU EVENTUALLY.

I agree and sympathize with most of this sentiment. My point is that this does not just apply to Tesla. Most is just how things (have to) work these days.

If you don't 'go huge' right from the start, you won't last long or even get off the ground.
To 'go huge' needs loads of cash. Bucket loads.
To get that much cash, you better have an awesome product / anticipated product - so you have to promise The Earth (or Mars!)
Trying to deliver promises is always tough and bound to fall short and be too costly to try and make good on because.......
The first 'huge' is never big enough, so you need way more cash that in turn needs way bigger promises......

Somewhere in that crazy cycle you actually have to start delivering something that is actually possible - while you are still trying to achieve the impossible. It is the relatively boring, real, deliverable stuff that customers can actually get their hands on, and this tiny bit of reality is what supports the whole stack of craziness.

No defense of Tesla here, but I think that the issue we are seeing the effects of stems from the disparity between where Tesla is aiming for, and the relatively mundane reality of what is actually possible today. And 'Today' is very soon a few years ago.

As a long time Tesla follower but only recent owner, I feel quite a debt of gratitude to all the earlier adopters who have kept the ball rolling, and also recognize that I am taking that same role now. Tesla can't change the rules of physics or economics, so there are tough constraints they have to try and work to.

If nothing else, I think Tesla should seriously consider splitting off / setting up an independent support and service function (which could be a net cost to Tesla or even try to become a profit center) but most importantly, totally focussed on and capable of responding to the needs of existing owners. If you don't get that right, your growth in new clients directly feeds a growth in pixxed off clients who will never come back.

 

[Bet TSLA]

feel threatened by anyone who posits a differing opinion

You are confusing "threatened" with incredulous and amused by. As I said quite clearly, you should do whatever floats your boat. But if you are going to post in a public forum about your decision-making process, you should be prepared for others to poke holes in it. Lest anybody be tempted to follow you over your particular cliff, of course.

 

[Bet TSLA]

The ethical/moral question regarding whether they have the right/obligation to alter the core functionality of a car to prolong it and escape warranty claims all depends on your point of view.

Not really. That sort of thing is reprehensible. But the ascribing of these motives to Tesla is on you, and a bunch of other conspiracy theorists.

As I see it, Tesla is basically driven by engineering and is making engineering decisions. I don't see any evidence of base motives, just some degree of poor planning, incompetence in communications and service, and lack of PR. These things are fixable and lead to me being basically optimistic, whereas if you are going to view Tesla as evil I can see that your expectations are going to be quite different.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I w

I wonder how many S and X owners would've actually jumped in say 4-7 years ago knowing this, everything I've read is that early adopters were treated like royalty and now because of the 3 (and probably Y as well), they've become an afterthought and pushed aside. I find it odd that the very people who in theory have made the company what it is today, are getting the short end for actually spending more money and believing in the technology.

just picked up a 3P.
Still have my 7 year old P85... it has always been pretty well taken care of for how many engineering fixes & changes there have been. probably 1000's of different parts from it and a 2014 non D car & I drove it hard for 7 years...no it is a little sad to drive vs the 3 but it still is an amazing car compared to most. would not have wanted to drive anything else for 7 years!!! except a P3...
really sucks that the 3 is way way better for road trips by at least 30% I' imagine. Had the P85 and 3 on a trip together...the 3 was done charging in 25 min, the S took 80 min to go the same distance. was keeping the S for roadtrips & dogs but it is going to suck for the roadtrip part with the new charge curve.
really waiting on battery supply & pricing so retrofits are feasible

 

[Ken7]

...because replacing an engine in a car is rare, few people ever experience this. Usually it is a part only, not the entire block.

And again, because an engine replacement is 'rare', it doesn't make the entire car any less complicated. These comparisons that some throw out have nothing whatever to do with the complexity of a product. A product can be reliable and yet complicated. A product can be both unreliable & complicated too. The same applies to simplicity, a less complicated product can be both reliable or unreliable. These things just have nothing to do with complexity.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

I'll just toss my 2 cents onto the pile, since so many "fanbois" are chiming in claiming that the OP is unreasonable or making things up.

I've have my car since May 2014 and have been a vocal proponent of the company on my blog and Twitter. I wrote a number of articles and reviews for Teslarati and I'm the admin of our local Facebook group. You can click through my post history or my footer for my "credentials."

I've done "all the right things" re: my battery and have the benefit of comprehensive knowledge about the car and the experiences of many of my fellow local owners, many of whom I know of their complete service history. We were the "frontier" of the Tesla wave back in 2014 and absent reliable Ranger service or local facilities, we had to support each other... forming a strong bond in our group.

The MCU having a fatal flaw that Tesla refuses to repair (only offering full $$ replacement) is not debatable. That is a fact.
The capping and charge rate alterations are not debatable. They are fact.
Tesla removing functions from older cars for no reason other than neglect (TPMS reset and removal of battery preconditioning) or malfeasance is not debatable. That is a fact.

The ethical/moral question regarding whether they have the right/obligation to alter the core functionality of a car to prolong it and escape warranty claims all depends on your point of view.

I bought a car (and some stock), but I didn't buy it with the expectation or intention of giving the company a pass on their product. It absolutely is the best car I've ever had and I love it-- and still fully intend to run it until it drops-- but the software downgrades are a major concern and I've begun tempering my recommendations with the caveat that the spec sheet only reflects current marketing.

That everything about the car is subject to change for the entirety of ownership was, at first, hugely exciting. But now I am experiencing the dark side of that. AS WILL ALL OF YOU EVENTUALLY. <-- not a fact, but a very safe deduction, if the current legal challenges to Tesla's actions are not resolved favorably to owners.

There also needs to be some serious doses of reality for some of you. Again, few were as vocal in their enthusiasm for the cars than I have been, but I've also tried to hard to avoid a swerve into cult territory and have a long history of criticisms where I felt it was necessary. And the idea that "just a few minutes more" on a road trip, at each charging session, is acceptable... well, that is NOT a fact. My time has value, especially when my car is full of family who ALSO value their time.

For all the drama-queen statements about how you'd do anything to avoid gas, I don't agree. I've always insisted that the Tesla must serve FIRST as a good car and second as an EV. Since Tesla compromised my charging, I did the quick mental math on our yearly Thanksgiving journey that I could make an absolutely effortless road trip in my Subaru (which is quieter and has better seats, among other perks) for a single stop and about $50 in gas, compared to hours of charging and worrying about range being affected by snow/ice/wind. The Tesla has usually made this trip -- but no more. Yeah, I had to touch a gas pump... but really, get over yourselves. It's not ebola. I saved at least 2 hours in travel time on a 10 hour trip (roundtrip), as estimated by a friend who took the same route, in the same config, a few days earlier. $50 well spent, even without factoring the peace of mind knowing I could make my destination nonstop if I wanted to. Tesla Pittsburgh on Twitter

My Tesla remains the car of choice for regional trips (like fetching my son from college later this week-- which used to require just 20 minutes at the Supercharger but now requires about 45+, though the display blatantly lies now: Tesla Pittsburgh on Twitter), but I think the era of long distance travel is over because my Outback is just way better at it... 10 minutes and I'm gone and without any concerns or mental fatigue trying to figure out how far I'll get.
That is **NOT** what I was buying into back in 2014.... the dream isn't dead, but it's definitely disabled.

After 5+ plus years of loving my Tesla, I've come to the conclusion that local/regional/daily commutes are hands-down dominated by the Tesla (until there's a viable competitor), but the actions of the company in the last year or so are helping me rediscover the joys and ease of long-distance travel by gas. I save so much during the year, that I can spare a couple bucks when time matters.

That is Tesla's current legacy in my family. I hope they work harder in the future to change it. They are leaving the door WIDE OPEN to lose many of their earliest supporters if another mousetrap comes along.

Shame on you.

Yes, actually, the gas pump is "Ebola," and should be treated as such.

So profoundly sad that you are either unaware of, or just don't care about, these facts:

Rising Seas Will Erase More Cities by 2050, New Research Shows

climate.nasa.gov

News | Huge Cavity in Antarctic Glacier Signals Rapid Decay

"[The size of] a cavity under a glacier plays an important role in melting," said the study's lead author, Pietro Milillo of JPL. "As more heat and water get under the glacier, it melts faster."

Numerical models of ice sheets use a fixed shape to represent a cavity under the ice, rather than allowing the cavity to change and grow. The new discovery implies that this limitation most likely causes those models to underestimate how fast Thwaites is losing ice.

About the size of Florida, Thwaites Glacier is currently responsible for approximately 4 percent of global sea level rise. It holds enough ice to raise the world ocean a little over 2 feet (65 centimeters) and backstops neighboring glaciers that would raise sea levels an additional 8 feet (2.4 meters) if all the ice were lost.

[truncated]

And, yes, Tesla is making a mess of its relationships with those of us that brought Tesla to the party--I hope that there will be legal consequences for those that have had an OTA degradation to their vehicles.

Shame, shame, shame on Tesla for not making amends, via either greatly enhanced trade-in options, or some other "make it right" move. These older cars could then become service loaners, or modified for Service Ranger use for the next few years.

But that doesn't absolve you of your poor choices.

 

[Pruitt]

Sorry, sadly, 737Max says hello. Boeing, big fail on this one.

Yeah, I didn't work on that one.

 

[Sherlo]

As a long time Tesla follower but only recent owner, I feel quite a debt of gratitude to all the earlier adopters who have kept the ball rolling, and also recognize that I am taking that same role now. Tesla can't change the rules of physics or economics, so there are tough constraints they have to try and work to.

If nothing else, I think Tesla should seriously consider splitting off / setting up an independent support and service function (which could be a net cost to Tesla or even try to become a profit center) but most importantly, totally focussed on and capable of responding to the needs of existing owners. If you don't get that right, your growth in new clients directly feeds a growth in pixxed off clients who will never come back.

Agree on both your points. On the 2nd one, unfortunately don't see Tesla going the independent SC route.

The traditional dealership model has some benefits. I purchased a Leaf back in 2010 (pre-order, site unseen). Talk about early adopter risk. But figured with the price point and tax incentives (net approx 19K), it was worth a shot. Battery started with 90 mile range and I only took it in for service twice in 7 years (even with the maintenance package). At the 4.5 year mark, thought it might be a good idea to have it looked at before my warranty ended. The dealership mentions that my battery has degraded (at this point I was around 60 miles of range) and that if it degraded a bit more (measured in bars), they would replace it at no cost. They "recommended" I charge as much as possible at fast chargers during the next 6 months in order to degrade it further. Well, I didn't put much effort into that strategy. But as luck would have it, 1 month before the end of warranty, winner, winner...Nissan replaced battery.

I've been treated extremely well by my SC. However, the Tesla model of being both manufacturer and " dealership" is by design sort of a conflict of interest. As I understand it, the Nissan dealership had a vested interest in replacing my battery (billing labor). With the Tesla model, we appear to be missing the traditional dealership "ally".

 

[BulldogsRus]

And again, because an engine replacement is 'rare', it doesn't make the entire car any less complicated. These comparisons that some throw out have nothing whatever to do with the complexity of a product. A product can be reliable and yet complicated. A product can be both unreliable & complicated too. The same applies to simplicity, a less complicated product can be both reliable or unreliable. These things just have nothing to do with complexity.

Well I think the bigger problem tbh is it appears that Tesla is still having issues with parts and repair times, so even if in theory there are less things that can break, when they do it may take far longer to repair.