Why not buy a Mustang Mach-E?

[psuKinger]

Tesla's proprietary charge port and network is getting to be less of a differentiator. Remember betamax? There are some 2400 CCS supercharging locations now with reliable cross-country routes. Good luck avoiding lines in some cities with your Tesla and don't even think about travel on busy holidays.

Tesla could solve this easily by giving North America a CCS adapter like Europe enjoys for the Model S/X or just give up the proprietary non-sense like the Model Y/3 in Europe. Not sure why EM gimps our cars in their home turf.

I did a Denver to San Diego drive in my Chevy Bolt earlier this year and it was no better or worse than that trip I have done many times in a Tesla.

. . . Betamax is better than VHS in every technical way . . . BUT . . .

I'm a new EV owner. So you either know something I don't know, and have something you can teach me (totally possible, and I welcome it), about how there are non-Tesla Fast charging locations all over their place, and I'm simply not using PlugShare right and don't know how to look for/find them...

OR

Your perspective is very heavily shaped by the geography you just described (the roads between Denver and San Diego).

As I understand it, nothing comes remotely close to Tesla where I live and along the routes that I most frequently road trip.

And every time I check on the Supercharger availability of the four or five closest to me, they have always been (sometimes far) below 50% capacity.

Honestly, I might be WAY off base here, but I don't think it's even close. I think Tesla has "the field" by a mile on this. Maybe there are small sectors of the country where there are competitive alternatives? Places like Denver and San Diego likely adopted EVs earlier than elsewhere, and likely have a larger ownership base than a lot of the other parts of the country? And therefore have drawn a lot of attention from "charging companies" like EVGo and Chargepoint and whoever else is out there? But I don't think that's true for *most* of the rest of the country... I think the company best positioned to continue penetrating into new markets and outselling the competition, is the company that built the superchargers BEFORE the locals began to adopt, rather than waiting for them to adopt and THEN build charging networks to support them.

P.S. I share anyone else's frustration about the proprietary connector. It's not what's best for the big picture. I don't like the Lightning connector, I didn't like the giant "5-pin" thing that was before it, and I don't like this proprietary plug from Tesla. I wish all mobile devices used USB, and I wish all EVs would move to CCS. I'm completely on board with that.

 

[db93]

well I hope there are a few successful EV start ups but based upon the Nikola earnings yesterday I'm not sure. Maybe Volvo and a couple of current Chinese cars catchup. The US needs more successful EV companies.

Not sure I would base any analysis on Nikola, seems like a shady deal there
Mach E made in Mexico, will be interesting to see the final retail product
Rivian, and Lucid should be online soon

The real competition will likely come from China, Korea, India

 

[BlindPass]

I'd suggest you try not to be so optimistic about a vapor vehicle. And I do welcome you to buy it and let us know if you regret your decision. If you're honest.

Vapor vehicle? Lol. Pull your head out of the sand. You sound just as bad as the fools that have shorted Tesla since 2012.

Make no mistake, there is already worthy competition. Naturally, Tesla fans tend to value more the aspects Tesla is better at.

I do wonder about scalability with the competition- meaning these legacy manufacturers are able to offer well equipped and supported vehicles at synthetically low costs due to being subsidized by ICE revenue streams. But given the small nature of the EV market, even at small output levels, they would collectively threaten to gain decent market share.

In 5 years there will be even more competition, and despite a EV brand advantage, Tesla will need to be more well-rounded to maintain market share. The Asian companies in particular could have some production and political advantages that will need to be dealt with.

 

[rxlawdude]

Where can I buy a Mach-e? Where can I test drive one?

Oh. Right.

Vapor.

 

[rxlawdude]

Vapor vehicle? Lol. Pull your head out of the sand. You sound just as bad as the fools that have shorted Tesla since 2012.

Make no mistake, there is already worthy competition. Naturally, Tesla fans tend to value more the aspects Tesla is better at.

I do wonder about scalability with the competition- meaning these legacy manufacturers are able to offer well equipped and supported vehicles at synthetically low costs due to being subsidized by ICE revenue streams. But given the small nature of the EV market, even at small output levels, they would collectively threaten to gain decent market share.

In 5 years there will be even more competition, and despite a EV brand advantage, Tesla will need to be more well-rounded to maintain market share. The Asian companies in particular could have some production and political advantages that will need to be dealt with.

Let's just say you have a far too optimistic view of what legacy manufacturers (or Johnny-come-latelys) will have to compete with Tesla's head start and (ahem) Supercharging network.

 

[FatherTo1]

You can "LOL" all you want about Tesla's being described as "aspirational", but here's a true story: when I pull up to my son's grade school (K-8th grade) in our Tesla Model 3 to pick him up after school, I often see kids pointing and exclaiming to their friends "Look! There's a TESLA!!". Point is, if you want to know the most current cutting edge trends, observe the kids! I live in a middle class neighborhood and there are more kids who know what TESLA's are, then adults! TESLA being "aspirational" is the new and coming cutting edge trend... proven by kids .

I see that too. At our kid's school there's only our S and another Model 3 and each car always draws attention and the younger generation "gets it", whereas I get adults that ask if the main display screen is "aftermarket". I did get one adult walking behind me that commented our Tesla "will be his next car" -- aspirational indeed.

I applaud the effort from Ford but I hardly expect their first full-fledged EV will take down a Model Y. At the same price there's just too much brand power in Tesla (more cachet, Supercharging network, industry-leading performance/range, superior AP/FSD tech, safety features and crash scores, etc). I am more curious what Rivian will bring to the table in production form.

 

[Dennisis]

I see that too. At our kid's school there's only our S and another Model 3 and each car always draws attention and the younger generation "gets it", whereas I get adults that ask if the main display screen is "aftermarket". I did get one adult walking behind me that commented our Tesla "will be his next car" -- aspirational indeed.

I applaud the effort from Ford but I hardly expect their first full-fledged EV will take down a Model Y. At the same price there's just too much brand power in Tesla (more cachet, Supercharging network, industry-leading performance/range, superior AP/FSD tech, safety features and crash scores, etc). I am more curious what Rivian will bring to the table in production form.

Yes, people seem excited about the Rivian - hope it’s as good as the hype. Still want to see how charging works out for all these soon-to- be EV’s.

 

[Reeler]

I'm a new EV owner. So you either know something I don't know, and have something you can teach me (totally possible, and I welcome it), about how there are non-Tesla Fast charging locations all over their place, and I'm simply not using PlugShare right and don't know how to look for/find them...

If you have a Tesla, the standards-based supercharging stations are not really helpful. Tesla has a Chademo adapter, but it is slow. Tesla has good integration of their supercharger network with their proprietary nav to make things relatively painless.

Everything is segregated on the other side of the fence by charging brand, but Electrify America has a network that is about half the number of locations as Tesla with two cross-country routes. I use their system and fill in the gaps with the PlugShare app, which is most complete having all other brands. My travel is mostly in the West and Southwest especially, but totally workable if you juggle a few apps and fobs.

If Tesla just offered the CCS adapter in North America, everything would be good and truly that would be better than anyone having the best of both worlds. Right now it is just lightning connector.

 

[Doc Brown]

Let's just say you have a far too optimistic view of what legacy manufacturers (or Johnny-come-latelys) will have to compete with Tesla's head start and (ahem) Supercharging network.

history is littered with the carcasses of companies who were "so far ahead" that no one could catch them.

 

[Dennisis]

I still think it's funny the OP joined TMC, started this thread, left a few minutes later hasn't been back since. Got his money's worth....

 

[Y Not]

Vapor vehicle? Lol. Pull your head out of the sand. You sound just as bad as the fools that have shorted Tesla since 2012.

Make no mistake, there is already worthy competition. Naturally, Tesla fans tend to value more the aspects Tesla is better at.

I do wonder about scalability with the competition- meaning these legacy manufacturers are able to offer well equipped and supported vehicles at synthetically low costs due to being subsidized by ICE revenue streams. But given the small nature of the EV market, even at small output levels, they would collectively threaten to gain decent market share.

In 5 years there will be even more competition, and despite a EV brand advantage, Tesla will need to be more well-rounded to maintain market share. The Asian companies in particular could have some production and political advantages that will need to be dealt with.

I am seeing more and more Kia Niro EV's every day.

 

[MXLRplus]

I am seeing more and more Kia Niro EV's every day.

I evaluated the Niro and the Kona. These are going to be contenders: HUD, autosteering, 360 view, well built. Too slow for my taste, but for the Car-As-Appliance crowd, they are much better than their gas counterparts IMO.

 

[Wennfred]

The Mustang Mach-E arguably has the better brand name. It is also faster and has a better interior!

Yep and they are also 20 years behind the competition.

Fred

 

[same]

I evaluated the Niro and the Kona. These are going to be contenders: HUD, autosteering, 360 view, well built. Too slow for my taste, but for the Car-As-Appliance crowd, they are much better than their gas counterparts IMO.

you made me google it....didn't know much --

 

[Ocelot]

Range, performance and standard equipment for the current Model Y LR AWD ($52,990) are far better than the comparably priced future 2021 Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD ($53,300):

Range: 316 mi v. 210 mi
0-60 4.8s v. 5.5s
Max charge rate: 250 kW v. 150 kW
Autopilot standard v no
Supercharger network v. no
Side collision warning v. no
Obstacle aware acceleration v. no
Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance v. no
Auto dimming heated mirror v. no
Front and rear heated seats v. front heated seats only
Sentry Mode/Security Camera v. no
Movies/Games/Karaoke v. no
Dog Mode v. no

In contrast, the Mach-E offers the following features not available on Model Y:

heated steering wheel
360 degree parking camera and
a hands-free foot activated lift gate

Really no comparison, even without factoring in Tesla's experience with EVs, battery life, etc., not to mention that Model Y will likely improve by the time Mach-E starts shipping.

Comparison between: 2020 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD, 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD

Good post.
If only Tesla added 360 degreee and a heated wheel.should really Aden both ( touched up model x wheels yesterday after my wife accidentally scraped one at car wash).


My feeling is after initial rush.,cost of Mach Ed will decline, making things more competitive.

 

[DanDi58]

Spending way too much time with the troll me thinks....

And when will the Mach-E even be available in 'Niger' I wonder...

 

[EinSV]

Good post. <snip>

My feeling is after initial rush.,cost of Mach Ed will decline, making things more competitive.

Possibly, but so far it's the other way around. Less than a month after my post, Tesla reduced the Model Y AWD price by $3,000, so now the current Model Y is priced at $49,900 v. $53,300 for the future Mach-E Premium AWD, with better performance, range and specs, plus free autopilot and access to the Supercharger network

Since Tesla innovates faster than the rest of the industry and continuously improves range, performance, and features, I think it will be hard for Ford to close the gap. We'll see what they can do.

If only Tesla added 360 degreee and a heated wheel.should really Aden both ( touched up model x wheels yesterday after my wife accidentally scraped one at car wash).

Since my post, Tesla also added the ability to view side cameras when backing up, which should help avoid curb rash. Over time perhaps they'll expand that functionality for use in other situations.

 

[DanDi58]

Interesting thread. I have to admit that I fall into the camp of 'the more EV's, the better for everyone' - competition should improve the breed for everyone. That said, I'm interested that there are several folks assuming the Mach-E will be better built. Not sure why that is. And certainly dealing with legacy dealers is not fun in general, whether you're talking buying or servicing. At least with an ICE legacy vehicle, you can take it to your local independent for work. Wouldn't do that with a Mach-E. But I can't wait for the first MY - Mach-E comparos to come out.

One of the things I like about Tesla cars is that they are differentiated from ICE vehicles. I guess that comes from a clean-sheet design. Not crazy about EV's that look like converted ICE platforms, even if they aren't. Not sure I would recognize and E-tron as being one, without seeing it next to a Q5, for example. And I'm a VW/Audi guy, having owned them from 1985 - 2019.

 

[Jashev]

I'm a new EV owner. So you either know something I don't know, and have something you can teach me (totally possible, and I welcome it), about how there are non-Tesla Fast charging locations all over their place, and I'm simply not using PlugShare right and don't know how to look for/find them...

OR

Your perspective is very heavily shaped by the geography you just described (the roads between Denver and San Diego).

As I understand it, nothing comes remotely close to Tesla where I live and along the routes that I most frequently road trip.

And every time I check on the Supercharger availability of the four or five closest to me, they have always been (sometimes far) below 50% capacity.

Honestly, I might be WAY off base here, but I don't think it's even close. I think Tesla has "the field" by a mile on this. Maybe there are small sectors of the country where there are competitive alternatives? Places like Denver and San Diego likely adopted EVs earlier than elsewhere, and likely have a larger ownership base than a lot of the other parts of the country? And therefore have drawn a lot of attention from "charging companies" like EVGo and Chargepoint and whoever else is out there? But I don't think that's true for *most* of the rest of the country... I think the company best positioned to continue penetrating into new markets and outselling the competition, is the company that built the superchargers BEFORE the locals began to adopt, rather than waiting for them to adopt and THEN build charging networks to support them.

P.S. I share anyone else's frustration about the proprietary connector. It's not what's best for the big picture. I don't like the Lightning connector, I didn't like the giant "5-pin" thing that was before it, and I don't like this proprietary plug from Tesla. I wish all mobile devices used USB, and I wish all EVs would move to CCS. I'm completely on board with that.

Don't know where you are in PA, but I am too. When I first started driving Tesla's (2014) their charging network was barely adequate. Fast forward to today and it is amazing. Nonetheless, there has also been a big increase in non-Tesla chargers since that time. If you travel the PA Turnpike, I know that almost every rest stop between Harrisburg and NJ has a DC fast charging station (which I've used with my ChaDemo many times). Now I also see DC fast chargers popping up at Rutters and a number of other locations. They have a long way to go, but it is certainly improving.

 

[FredMertz]

It seems like most, if not all, of the Ford dealers have realized that the reservations are transferable to any other dealer, so the markups have largely disappeared.