I am interested in the cyber truck. However, I hunt in remote parts of Oregon. No charging stations, nor any electric grid within 150miles of the area. If you spent a week or two in the woods that cyber truck would become a paper weight. I currently use a diesel truck and I carry 30 gallons of extra fuel. I don't always need it... But, this year there was 2ft of snow and it was treacherous. I used every drop of gas. It took us two days to get from the bottom and edge of the forest to our hunting camp (16hrs of driving). Usually takes us one hour... It is exactly those situations that give me pause.. I've read that even sitting a Tesla can loose charge, especially in 10 below zero weather.
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Will Tesla build a clean gas generator specifically designed for the cybertruck?
- Thread starter bigb1974
- Start date
davewill
Active Member
No generator setup would be as efficient as your diesel truck. If this is a requirement for you then an electric truck is not the right tool. However, very few truck owners have those requirements.
Electric700
Active Member
I only hunt once a year. While I agree my Diesel truck is more efficient in this scenario. If Telsa could come up with an option that got me in and out of the woods once a year I'd switch from my Diesel gulping 7.3L powerstroke to the cybertruck. Seems like Musk could find a solution. It does not have to be as effective or efficient as my diesel in this application. It just has to work. I'd spend a couple extra hundo on my hunting trip to make it happen..
I'll check that out. Would be nice if Musk just came up with a safe generator option.. He's has built this cybertruck for extreme applications.. Bullet proof and all... These age going to be driven way off the grid... That is the nature of trucks. Especially, trucks like the one he is building. It is ridiculous to believe these trucks would not find themselves 100's of miles from a charging station...
Don't need a generator set up as efficient as my truck. I would need a set-up that was safe and wouldn't harm my battery. Extreme applications for must truck owners are once a year or less. But, that is enough to steer them away from a cybertruck unless some sort of generator could do the job. Again just once a year... And if it cost me an extra $300 bucks in fuel for the gene... Well so be it.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I think you mean, practical, not efficient.
Do you drive more than 500 miles in the back woods on your hunting trip?
Wouldn't the 500 mile range plus the solar panel option work for you? How far did you actually drive in those two days to get to the camp? If you are driving slowly, the range could be much greater than 500 miles. A LR Model 3 which is rated at slightly over 300 miles can go over 600 miles if driven at slower speeds. It's possible the truck could go 750 to 1000 miles or more on a full charge. Extreme cold could reduce that mileage back down...but with 500 mile range at highway speeds, you should have plenty to work with.
To answer the thread title, no, Tesla won't be building any gas generators.
To answer the thread title, no, Tesla won't be building any gas generators.
Electric700
Active Member
I think the solar panel option or a generator will work (if you ground the generator properly so the EVSE will function -- see the thread I linked to before). Here's one generator for sale:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/WEN-2000-Watt-Oem-Branded-Gasoline-Portable-Generator/1001238068
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Wouldn't work out in the cold, which was in the OP. At slow speeds, heating becomes the majority of energy usage since it uses the same power regardless of speed. If you heat for longer, you use more energy. Even with my Model 3, I get more than 30% reduction in range just at freezing going about 60mph. Moving slowly at lower temps could easily double usage per distance.
And don't forget if it's too cold (likely in this scenario), the car locks out some of the capacity of the battery so you can't count on having the full range. If it's keeping the battery warm enough, then it's also wasting energy to do so.
Solar would be far less effective (Winter) as well. Overall, it likely loses power even with solar panels. Perhaps slower by a bit, of course.
For this scenario, combustion vehicles are unfortunately still better suited.
500 miles of range should be close to sufficient. Remember, unlike an ICE, slow EVs are pretty efficient.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
mspohr
Well-Known Member
adiggs
Well-Known Member
For the corner case you've described, I think you'd still find the Cybertruck to be out beyond its capability. It'd be better than a paperweight, in that with the solar canopy and/or spreadable solar, you'd be able to generate some power and be able to eventually return to civilization (after the sun is back, maybe after the snow has melted - I hope you packed a lot of food along with you 
).
The key items you mentioned that lead me to this conclusion - 2' of snow means your energy consumption, even with cabin heat turned off and driving slow (which you'd be doing that far away from anything resembling pavement and in 2' of snow, is going to be very high per mile. Even with range mode or other setting that minimizes the battery heating so you're converting as much of your energy expenditure into moving as possible, you might be measuring your consumption in kwh/mile instead of wh/mile (snow increases rolling resistance a LOT over clear/dry/flat pavement). You also mentioned bringing 30 extra gallons of diesel and using all of that as well.
The energy content of diesel, even if we reduce it by 2/3rds to account for the efficiency loss associated with burning it, means you brought something like 330 kWh of extra range with you, which I'm guessing is around 800 miles of range for CT (given clear / dry / flat pavement). If we triple consumption for the conditions you had (I assume elevation gain / loss, snow up to your axles, cold), that'd be something like 250 - 300 extra miles of range for CT. And you still used it all. It's going to take a long time for an onboard solar panel / spreadable panel to generate that much power to move the truck back to a 110 outlet (or better).
There's a lot of similar corner cases where CT will work well, just not as extreme. And my own guess is that 500 mile range in a few years will turn into a 1000 mile range vehicle in < 10 years. It'll be an expensive option, but for the really intense and sustained energy consumption scenarios (such as what you've described), that'll be what's necessary. The primary use case I see for a 1k mile range vehicle will be a towing vehicle with a big / heavy 5th wheel in tow. I'd expect those bigger loads to triple energy consumption, so the 1k range vehicle will provide 300ish miles in practice. I don't expect very many of the 1k range vehicles to sell, but I do expect it'll be a necessary vehicle for the latter stages of providing electric vehicles for the wide variety of today's use cases.
EDIT: adding - the range loss (vampire drain) is pretty manageable. You can turn off most of the stuff that makes vampire drain noticeable. The big deal in the extreme circumstances you described is going to be pack heating. The vampire drain isn't going to turn your CT into a paperweight in a couple of days of sitting still.
The driving conditions might be so bad though, that 150 miles in and 150 miles out may be too far depending on how rough and bad those conditions are to make it in and out with a 500 mile range charge. It won't be the aero that you are worrying about - I expect you're driving 10-25ish (20 is about the peak for efficiency on flat/dry pavement). The problem you'll have out there is rolling resistance. If the road is reasonably flat and packed gravel, then I wouldn't expect much of a hit. If it's a barely defined dirt track, with potholes or mud up to your axles, then I'd expect the rolling resistance to be so high that 500 miles of range won't get you 150 miles in/out.
There's a lot of variables that matter, and that tells me that for the circumstances you aren't easily within an EV's capabilities yet.
One idea - consider an EV for your daily commuter and other more routine transportation needs. Part of the idea here is to start getting to know how EV life is different from gas/diesel life, and start getting your own personal idea of what normal is, and how normal varies under different conditions.
).The key items you mentioned that lead me to this conclusion - 2' of snow means your energy consumption, even with cabin heat turned off and driving slow (which you'd be doing that far away from anything resembling pavement and in 2' of snow, is going to be very high per mile. Even with range mode or other setting that minimizes the battery heating so you're converting as much of your energy expenditure into moving as possible, you might be measuring your consumption in kwh/mile instead of wh/mile (snow increases rolling resistance a LOT over clear/dry/flat pavement). You also mentioned bringing 30 extra gallons of diesel and using all of that as well.
The energy content of diesel, even if we reduce it by 2/3rds to account for the efficiency loss associated with burning it, means you brought something like 330 kWh of extra range with you, which I'm guessing is around 800 miles of range for CT (given clear / dry / flat pavement). If we triple consumption for the conditions you had (I assume elevation gain / loss, snow up to your axles, cold), that'd be something like 250 - 300 extra miles of range for CT. And you still used it all. It's going to take a long time for an onboard solar panel / spreadable panel to generate that much power to move the truck back to a 110 outlet (or better).
There's a lot of similar corner cases where CT will work well, just not as extreme. And my own guess is that 500 mile range in a few years will turn into a 1000 mile range vehicle in < 10 years. It'll be an expensive option, but for the really intense and sustained energy consumption scenarios (such as what you've described), that'll be what's necessary. The primary use case I see for a 1k mile range vehicle will be a towing vehicle with a big / heavy 5th wheel in tow. I'd expect those bigger loads to triple energy consumption, so the 1k range vehicle will provide 300ish miles in practice. I don't expect very many of the 1k range vehicles to sell, but I do expect it'll be a necessary vehicle for the latter stages of providing electric vehicles for the wide variety of today's use cases.
EDIT: adding - the range loss (vampire drain) is pretty manageable. You can turn off most of the stuff that makes vampire drain noticeable. The big deal in the extreme circumstances you described is going to be pack heating. The vampire drain isn't going to turn your CT into a paperweight in a couple of days of sitting still.
The driving conditions might be so bad though, that 150 miles in and 150 miles out may be too far depending on how rough and bad those conditions are to make it in and out with a 500 mile range charge. It won't be the aero that you are worrying about - I expect you're driving 10-25ish (20 is about the peak for efficiency on flat/dry pavement). The problem you'll have out there is rolling resistance. If the road is reasonably flat and packed gravel, then I wouldn't expect much of a hit. If it's a barely defined dirt track, with potholes or mud up to your axles, then I'd expect the rolling resistance to be so high that 500 miles of range won't get you 150 miles in/out.
There's a lot of variables that matter, and that tells me that for the circumstances you aren't easily within an EV's capabilities yet.
One idea - consider an EV for your daily commuter and other more routine transportation needs. Part of the idea here is to start getting to know how EV life is different from gas/diesel life, and start getting your own personal idea of what normal is, and how normal varies under different conditions.
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
People are always coming up with these wild use cases where an EV wouldn't work for them... traveling thousands of miles at 100 mph with only 5 minute stops required and no electricity anywhere... etc. These are mostly made up to justify a pre-conceived opinion that the EV would never work for them. I don't think they are serious and I think it's a waste of time to try to explain to them that it could work. They don't seem to want to try to understand the proposed solutions to their "dilemma".For the corner case you've described, I think you'd still find the Cybertruck to be out beyond its capability. It'd be better than a paperweight, in that with the solar canopy and/or spreadable solar, you'd be able to generate some power and be able to eventually return to civilization (after the sun is back, maybe after the snow has melted - I hope you packed a lot of food along with you
The key items you mentioned that lead me to this conclusion - 2' of snow means your energy consumption, even with cabin heat turned off and driving slow (which you'd be doing that far away from anything resembling pavement and in 2' of snow, is going to be very high per mile. Even with range mode or other setting that minimizes the battery heating so you're converting as much of your energy expenditure into moving as possible, you might be measuring your consumption in kwh/mile instead of wh/mile (snow increases rolling resistance a LOT over clear/dry/flat pavement). You also mentioned bringing 30 extra gallons of diesel and using all of that as well.
The energy content of diesel, even if we reduce it by 2/3rds to account for the efficiency loss associated with burning it, means you brought something like 330 kWh of extra range with you, which I'm guessing is around 800 miles of range for CT (given clear / dry / flat pavement). If we triple consumption for the conditions you had (I assume elevation gain / loss, snow up to your axles, cold), that'd be something like 250 - 300 extra miles of range for CT. And you still used it all. It's going to take a long time for an onboard solar panel / spreadable panel to generate that much power to move the truck back to a 110 outlet (or better).
There's a lot of similar corner cases where CT will work well, just not as extreme. And my own guess is that 500 mile range in a few years will turn into a 1000 mile range vehicle in < 10 years. It'll be an expensive option, but for the really intense and sustained energy consumption scenarios (such as what you've described), that'll be what's necessary. The primary use case I see for a 1k mile range vehicle will be a towing vehicle with a big / heavy 5th wheel in tow. I'd expect those bigger loads to triple energy consumption, so the 1k range vehicle will provide 300ish miles in practice. I don't expect very many of the 1k range vehicles to sell, but I do expect it'll be a necessary vehicle for the latter stages of providing electric vehicles for the wide variety of today's use cases.
To me, if I did want to go hunting in the CT, I'd just get the solar panel option and you could stay out forever and avoid the zombie apocalypse.
This is a really interesting problem to solve. We need more info from the OP.
It sounds like it's the campsite is not that far off the beaten path if it regularly takes 1 hr to get to camp. How many miles a day do you drive and what avg speed for daily hunts/outings?
Even if you discount Elons 30miles a day charging using solar by half, it may satisfy the OPs needs, and he carrys 30g of gas anyway, what's the difference if that runs a generator + 15- 20 miles of range from solar per day? Sounds doable to me.
It sounds like it's the campsite is not that far off the beaten path if it regularly takes 1 hr to get to camp. How many miles a day do you drive and what avg speed for daily hunts/outings?
Even if you discount Elons 30miles a day charging using solar by half, it may satisfy the OPs needs, and he carrys 30g of gas anyway, what's the difference if that runs a generator + 15- 20 miles of range from solar per day? Sounds doable to me.
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