Will Tesla Buildup Superchargers to Accommodate Anticipated Demand from Ford, GM, Rivian, and whoever else, Adopting NACS circa 2024/2025?

[jboy210]

Most of the GM cars have the port in the wrong place for supercharging. I did notice that the Silverado that is NOT in production just yet does have the port in a much better location. Maybe a sign of things to come, I hope.

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Anyone else think this looks more like a Ranchero or El Camino from the 1970/80s rather than a Sliverado?

 

[TunaBug]

Anyone else think this looks more like a Ranchero or El Camino from the 1970/80s rather than a Sliverado?

Nope. It doesn't look nearly cool enough to resemble an El Camino!

 

[Richbot]

It's an avalanche

 

[MikeChicago]

I am astonished by all the positive reaction from Tesla fans all over social media on the news that more and more automakers are signing onto Tesla's SC network. I have the opposite reaction. In fact, the primary reason I chose Tesla is because of the network. I really hope they thought this through and are ready to respond to the demand.

 

[Genie]

I am astonished by all the positive reaction from Tesla fans all over social media on the news that more and more automakers are signing onto Tesla's SC network. I have the opposite reaction. In fact, the primary reason I chose Tesla is because of the network. I really hope they thought this through and are ready to respond to the demand.

I’m all for it, my next car probably won’t be a Tesla but it will definitely have NACS and utilize Superchargers.

 

[MikeChicago]

I’m all for it, my next car probably won’t be a Tesla but it will definitely have NACS and utilize Superchargers.

That's a good point. I didn't think about it but it does open up more options for us when the time comes to buy the next car and we won't have to replace the chargers in our garages. That's a silver lining for sure.

 

[Earl]

That's a good point. I didn't think about it but it does open up more options for us when the time comes to buy the next car and we won't have to replace the chargers in our garages. That's a silver lining for sure.

I think the gold lining will be that everyone (government and commercial) will fall all over themselves to get DCFC (NACS standard) charging stations at their establishments. Today, there's uncertainty as to whether to go with:
- Tesla because that's most of the cars
- CCS because that's not proprietary to one company.
Given the uncertainty with the newness of EVs, this has been hard for many decision makers (many of whom don't drive EVs) to overcome. With everyone adopting NACS, this problem goes away.

 

[MikeChicago]

I think the gold lining will be that everyone (government and commercial) will fall all over themselves to get DCFC (NACS standard) charging stations at their establishments. Today, there's uncertainty as to whether to go with:
- Tesla because that's most of the cars
- CCS because that's not proprietary to one company.
Given the uncertainty with the newness of EVs, this has been hard for many decision makers (many of whom don't drive EVs) to overcome. With everyone adopting NACS, this problem goes away.

Excellent points. It should certainly accelerate private and public adoption once there is one dominant standard.

 

[akouri]

Very much this. So far Tesla is selling more cars per quarter than all other EVs combined. And all those new Teslas can use the superchargers right now, not 1-2 years from now.

We really need a massive expansion of Level 2 charging, especially for people that live in apartments or condos where they can’t install their own charger. That way all those people don’t need to rely on fast charging all the time and Tesla can focus on expanding interstate superchargers instead of building them all over a city like gas stations.

In your opinion, where would these L2 chargers go and who would pay for them? Would people be price insensitive enough to use them given that the actual cost to support the installation and maintenance would be on the order of about $0.25 / kWh in addition to the cost of energy?

 

[Genie]

In your opinion, where would these L2 chargers go and who would pay for them? Would people be price insensitive enough to use them given that the actual cost to support the installation and maintenance would be on the order of about $0.25 / kWh in addition to the cost of energy?

For on-street parking they could be bollard mounted like in Europe or mounted on the power poles. I think the EVSE would be owned and operated by the local public utility. Local residents have their usage appear on their electric bill, non locals use an app maybe?
I don’t know if your $0.25 rate is accurate or not, if EV owners don’t have their own EVSE that sounds like a pretty fair price, the PUD’s cost for energy included.
Parking garages could use wall and/or bollard mounts.
Just one scenario. There are many possibilities.

 

[E90alex]

In your opinion, where would these L2 chargers go and who would pay for them? Would people be price insensitive enough to use them given that the actual cost to support the installation and maintenance would be on the order of about $0.25 / kWh in addition to the cost of energy?

Anywhere and everywhere that people park. At office buildings and other places of employment. Parking garages and parking lots for malls and shopping centers and doctors offices. Street parking meters. On utility/power poles.

Lots of businesses and offices also have massive rooftops which can be used for large solar arrays.

The property owner or utility company or city would install and maintain them depending on location. Could be further subsidized by local/state/federal governments. People will pay the cost if they need to charge and can’t install charging at home and/or don’t have work charging. As long as it’s cheaper than DC fast charging. Places could even subsidize or eat the cost of the charging as an incentive to patronize their business (think like validated parking…could have validated free charging for X hours).

Topping off a bit each time you stop to shop and dine and run errands will be enough to sustain most people’s daily use without needing to stop at a fast charger.

 

[TunaBug]

In your opinion, where would these L2 chargers go and who would pay for them? Would people be price insensitive enough to use them given that the actual cost to support the installation and maintenance would be on the order of about $0.25 / kWh in addition to the cost of energy?

Any place people will be parked long enough to matter.

"Employee only" parking.

Every parking spot in every national or state park. Start doing just one row for now, then add rows as demand increases and experience is gained.

NOT grocery stores and shopping malls.

 

[E90alex]

NOT grocery stores and shopping malls.

Why not? People shop for hours at a time. Even a 30 min L2 charge can get you 5% in some cars, which will more than replenish the energy it took you to drive to the grocery store and back.

These L2 chargers would not be meant to fully charge the car. Just top off little by little as you go throughout your day.

 

[TunaBug]

Even a 30 min L2 charge can get you 5% in some cars

I don't think we should build out to give people a 5% charge. I'm picking an arbitrary and certainly debatable number, but I think the target should be that people will get at least a 25% charge. If you don't like 25% then I'll settle for 33%

Just top off little by little as you go throughout your day.

You want people to need do some tedious charger crawl throughout the day? There's a point at which it's less hassle to drive to an L3 and just get it over with.

 

[MP3Mike]

Every parking spot in every national or state park. Start doing just one row for now, then add rows as demand increases and experience is gained.

NOT grocery stores and shopping malls.

I would argue that grocery store and shopping mall L2 charging would further EV adoption more than national/state park L2 installs. (People spend more hours per year parked while shopping than they do parked while at a recreational park.)

But there is $3.5B of BIL money available, mainly, for L2 charging installations. (While only ~$1.5B of NEVI funding for DC fast charging on major corridors.)

Essentially the BIL money is planned for ~450k L2 chargers, and a few DC fast chargers in rural/disadvantaged areas.

But as the Blink CEO said: We need chargers installed everywhere a vehicle parks, most of them L2. (He also said that their L2 installs have return on investment in about 18 months.)

You want people to need do some tedious charger crawl throughout the day? There's a point at which it's less hassle to drive to an L3 and just get it over with.

Tedious crawl? When I go to the mall, I plug the Volta in to my car as a I walk away and I am done. That works great because it is free, but there is no reason that Plug&Charge can't be implemented on these L2 installs. (NEVI requires P&C, I'm not sure if the BIL money dedicated to L2 installs requires it or not.)

edit: But I'm not sure J-1772 supports P&C, but the Blink CEO said all of their chargers support it, so maybe? If anything NACS could probably support it.

 

[Genie]

I don't think we should build out to give people a 5% charge. I'm picking an arbitrary and certainly debatable number, but I think the target should be that people will get at least a 25% charge. If you don't like 25% then I'll settle for 33%



You want people to need do some tedious charger crawl throughout the day? There's a point at which it's less hassle to drive to an L3 and just get it over with.

Plugging in a NACS car is tedious? I do it every day at home, I’d be happy to when I park at a store or restaurant even for 30 min., it’s simple enough.
Apartment dwellers could get significant charge just by plugging in at the places they go. A few KWh at a time while they go about their day.

 

[E90alex]

You want people to need do some tedious charger crawl throughout the day? There's a point at which it's less hassle to drive to an L3 and just get it over with.

What tedious charger crawl? I’m saying chargers should be everywhere that people already normally go. People are already going to buy groceries, goto restaurants, shop, etc. They should be able to plug in everywhere they can park. They shouldn’t be going out of their way specifically to plug in at these L2 chargers, because yes at that point just DC fast charge if you’re going to make a dedicated stop just to charge.

And clearly people can decide for themselves whether to charge or not. If they don’t want to plug in for 5%, then they can choose not to. If they want to charge more then take another lap around the mall. But 5% here, 10% there all throughout the week means people can maintain enough charge in their car for daily use just by doing their normal errands and plugging in when they park.

Also from an infrastructure cost perspective, you can build dozens and dozens of L2 chargers for the cost and energy requirements to add one DC fast charger.

 

[paulkva]

I don't think we should build out to give people a 5% charge. I'm picking an arbitrary and certainly debatable number, but I think the target should be that people will get at least a 25% charge. If you don't like 25% then I'll settle for 33%

As others have said, it's worth at least considering chargers everywhere a vehicle parks. I agree grocery & convenience stores and quick-service dining would be better with L3 fast chargers. For many big-box stores, full-service restaurants, shopping malls, entertainment venues, hotels, office buildings, etc., I expect L2 would be widely appreciated. Even metered/street parking with >= 2-hour limits would be suitable for L2. Extended-stay hotels and airports would even benefit from L1 chargers.

You want people to need do some tedious charger crawl throughout the day? There's a point at which it's less hassle to drive to an L3 and just get it over with.

The only tedious parts about L2 charging nowadays are (1) most parking lots with any EV charging have just a few spots which are either full, ICEd, or poorly maintained, and (2) every network operates differently with their own separate account management / payment mechanism and app / user experience. If NACS supports auto-detecting account info when you plug in (for cases when fees apply), and if L2 plugs become common enough, it won't be tedious at all -- it would become as simple as it currently is for people who have L2 charging at home, where their local utility just bills them for whatever they use each month.

Everyone will have a different profile / use-case for the way they get around by car, so I want people to have the option to do a "charger crawl" throughout the day if that's what best suits their needs. For some people in some cases, yes L3 would be less hassle.

 

[SurgeEV]

Surprised more Tesla owners are not up in arms about having to share your beloved Supercharger network! This was one of the main benefits of owning a Tesla… now it’s no longer unique to Tesla.
It will take years for the network to expand, and may never expand to fill demand. In the interim, you’ll find a Ford Mustang charging in the last Tesla charging stall!

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Surprised more Tesla owners are not up in arms about having to share your beloved Supercharger network! This was one of the main benefits of owning a Tesla… now it’s no longer unique to Tesla.
It will take years for the network to expand, and may never expand to fill demand. In the interim, you’ll find a Ford Mustang charging in the last Tesla charging stall!

Go crawl back under the bridge you came from.