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Will the Performance+ Model 3 need a higher amp circuit breaker?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by UltralightBeam, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. UltralightBeam

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    Noticed the chart over at Model S/X/3 Wall Connector

    And saw that as you increase the 'performance' of the model 3, you go from 40 to 60 amps for the circuit breaker. Do you think that the performance model 3s would have a 90 amp breaker recommended?
     
  2. yuhong

    yuhong Member

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    AFAIK there are no plans to put more than a 48A charger in the Model 3. This is mostly based on battery size BTW.
     
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  3. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    Unlikely. The P has the same battery as the LR according to all currently published info.

    That means 48a max charging (60a breaker).

    Edit to add - none of them “need” a 90a breaker circuit. Some Tesla models can benefit from it, but for most owners a 50a Circuit can easily charge over night.
     
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  4. UltralightBeam

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    Awesome! Thanks @brkaus - Now I just need to figure out the amps on our current circuit breaker - quick check and I didn't see an easy to spot sticker or the like on it...
     
  5. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

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    What do you mean “current Circuit breaker”?
     
  6. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I think he means "the circuit breaker already installed".
     
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  7. UltralightBeam

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    Yes. This is what I meant!
     
  8. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Member

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    There should ALWAYS be an easy to read embedded indicator of the breaker size on the breaker.

    But the more important one is what type plug is there? If it is a standard wall plug, then it isn't going to handle 40A
     
  9. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    What current breaker? Do you have a charging circuit already?
     
  10. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    It's usually embossed/ molded into the breaker handle or body, not a sticker.
     
  11. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    I see people get this confused sometimes. They think of this as corresponding to the performance of the car for ongoing technology progression and future proofing. "The next EV can go 200 mph. I need more charging power." or "The next EV can go 700 miles. I need more charging power."

    These aren't very relevant. The charging speed you need is related to how much you drive--not on the capabilities of the car. As cars get more and more capability, that doesn't mean that you are now living double, triple, quadruple the distance from where you work or your kids' school. You drive the amount of miles that you drive, and having a car that goes really fast or has a 1,000 mile battery doesn't really change that. So when you have enough charging speed to refill the miles you need, you have enough.
     
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  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I think there's an implied duration, something like "if I drive like a typical person (X miles to+from work each day) how much do I need for overnight charging to be sufficient?"

    My stock answer is 14-50 (max 240V @ 40A) because it's relatively cheap and it does a decent fill -- and it's fairly common. The 30A outlets -- old dryers and RV parks -- is also likely sufficient for most.

    Even for the incredibly low range driver, I can't recommend 110V/120V ("standard U.S. household plug") as a long-term overnight charging solution. I lived with that for 2 weeks when I got my first Tesla and hated it.
     
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  13. NickFie

    NickFie Member

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    I’ve used 30A dryer outlets at family beach house and a friend’s house while visiting. Cannot get a full charge overnight if you arrive with a low battery.

    Certainly adequate for most day-to-day use.
     
  14. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Yah, 240V @ 40A with P100D bone "dry" is ~10 hours? So yah, good point for big batteries.
     
  15. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    #15 tga, Jul 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
    You can argue the 3 needs less charging power, since it's more efficient (approx 250 Wh/mi for the 3, 333 Wh/mi for the S). For a given number of miles driven, you need to replace fewer kWh's in a 3 than in an S.

    An S with an 85kWh battery charges at 6%/hr on a 30A circuit (24A charge, 17hrs 0-100%).
     
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  16. UltralightBeam

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    Okay, I pulled the info from my circuit breaker box and it’s this model I think...
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-200-Amp-40-Space-80-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Breaker-Plug-On-Neutral-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value-Pack-HOM4080M200PCVP/204836379

    Actually, it’s specifically a
    HOMC42UC but it looks basically the same as that and I wanted to pull an image friendly site to see.

    I’m not sure if this basically means that my home has 200A service total or something else... either way, I initially was thinking that this should be more than enough for my needs?

    Would an electrician just need to install one of those 2 pole circuit breaker plug in units like this?
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-50-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM250CP/202353323

    Then add the junction for the wall connector to attach to it. Sorry for my very ‘layman’ terms. Hope it all made sense in some manner...
     
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  17. yuhong

    yuhong Member

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    The maximum would be 48A with a 60A circuit breaker, but in practice you probably won't need to charge that fast. Many other EVs would use 32A charging which would require at least a 40A circuit breaker.
     
  18. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    That's pretty much it. If you have a 200A main, then you (should) have 200A-capable wire feeding it and a 200A meter. The electrician is supposed to do a load calculation to determine your peak usage and confirm that is won't exceed the main breaker. Unless you have lots of A/C, pool pumps, double ovens, and other big power users, you're probably fine.

    A load calc is not as simple as adding up all the breakers in the panel - they often total far more than the main. It's the total expected draw that matters.
     
  19. NickFie

    NickFie Member

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    My overnights are closer to 10 hours if we go out for dinner. If our S100D arrives at 15%, won't reach 80% or 90% before it's time to unplug the next morning. That's fine in normal scenario, we can reach target charge level the next night. That's our beach house strategy. Ensure high enough charge going into the last night that the battery will be at 100% the next morning for the drive home. Then only one stop needed on the way home.

    When I visited my friend in Connecticut, arrived at about 50%. He and I went out to pick up dinner, with a long demo ride and scenic tour. Got home, my friend's wife came in and we three had dinner. Her demo ride and tour came after dinner. Battery was pretty low when we plugged in to the freshly installed 14-30 outlet in my friend's garage/workshop.

    Woke up early the next day with battery charged to about 80%. I used 10% to drive to a company site. Fortunately the parking garage includes free L2 EV chargers. Plugged in just before lunch when a unit opened up. The battery reached 100% shortly before I left for the drive to another friend near Mt. Washington. That provided enough range, even with elevation gain, that no stop was necessary.

    Would have had to plan a SuperCharger stop in Massachusetts on the way to New Hampshire if I hadn't been able to top-up at the worksite.

    Conclusion - Aim for 50 Amp capacity, it covers more scenarios.

    Our S100D can use up to 72 Amps from HPWC. The additional cost for 100 Amp cable vs. 50 Amp was small enough that I went for it. If I decide in the afternoon to leave for a Jersey Shore BBQ after telecommuting hours, battery will be ready for the round trip by departure time.
     
  20. tga

    tga Supporting Member

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    Agreed. I was just offering a data point on dryer outlet charging, not arguing for/against. I have 24A charging at home now, but once the 100A->200A upgrade is done, I'll go with 40A or more (I have dual chargers).

    I'm limited to 20A charging at my vacation house - I've had sessions that start on arrival late at night and go until the following afternoon. That requires some planning. I do know someone nearby with an 80A HPWC, just in case.
     

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