Will the second row seats fold flat? If so, how?

[dhanson865]

I am asking for something that is comparable to what Tesla told us to expect. Is that unreasonable? By rephrasing my request as "I want to see a queen-sized bed" you paint me as silly, petty and unreasonable. Even with the smiley I find that disappointing, bonnie.

Whoa! NO! I was referring to Elon's statement at launch that it would be big enough to almost fit a queen size bed. And THAT is what I want to see.

I loved your side-by-side comparison. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Page numbers were confused again after some posts were moved by a moderator. I'm hoping that didn't keep Dirk from seeing Bonnie's reply. My post pushes to the new final page again.

I think we'd all like to see a queen size "bed" in there though for me I'm just thinking a queen sized foam topper.

 

[bonnie]

Page numbers were confused again after some posts were moved by a moderator. I'm hoping that didn't keep Dirk from seeing Bonnie's reply.

Thanks for making sure - but yes, he saw it. We're good.

 

[dirkhh]

Thanks for making sure - but yes, he saw it. We're good.

Off topic warning... but it's interesting that with all the arguing and some of the personal attacks going on it's easy to overlook the really cool community at TMC. I've gained some friends here, people whom I respect and trust. bonnie most definitely among them.
Oh yes. We're good. Positively.

 

[mrdoubleb]

With all due respect, at the time of making a signature reservation, there was no requirement to agree that you'd buy without key specifications being disclosed. If people are asking for more info, they should be allowed to wait until the 29th without losing their spot in line.

Honestly a bit tired of hearing this (has a note of "you poor dumb idiots"). There was no reason for sigs to think performance would be forced on us when we plunked down a deposit (wasn't for Model S). There was no reason to think that the storage space (created by flat-folding seats) that was touted during the unveiling wouldn't be available. There was no reason to think we wouldn't have the information we needed to make an informed decision at the time of configuration either.

So, maybe a bit dumb... For believing Tesla wouldn't put us in a situation like this.

I am really sorry you guys feel that way - it was not my intention to imply you are "dumb". What I am saying is that you guys signed up for a car years before it went into production without ever having sat in it, driven it, or even seen the final production version. Surely there is some risk involved with that - i would never do it, especially not when it costs more than my apartment. Having said that, i would have also expected Tesla would give you full specs when you configure.

I understand the frustration when you commit 40k to a car, accept delay after delay only to find out a key feature (to you) has been changed compared to the prototype, but I thought Sigs were aware of the pros and cons of committing at the prototype phase. also, I would expect you could talk to Tesla about pushing back your order until September 29 or later - even if that means converting your reservation to "production".

 

[vandacca]

I am really sorry you guys feel that way - it was not my intention to imply you are "dumb". What I am saying is that you guys signed up for a car years before it went into production without ever having sat in it, driven it, or even seen the final production version. Surely there is some risk involved with that - i would never do it, especially not when it costs more than my apartment. Having said that, i would have also expected Tesla would give you full specs when you configure.

I understand the frustration when you commit 40k to a car, accept delay after delay only to find out a key feature (to you) has been changed compared to the prototype, but I thought Sigs were aware of the pros and cons of committing at the prototype phase. also, I would expect you could talk to Tesla about pushing back your order until September 29 or later - even if that means converting your reservation to "production".

I suspect that this is more of a rooky mistake on Tesla's part rather than on the reservation holder. Tesla had built up some trust and credibility, which may have been partially damaged over the past few weeks. I don't think Tesla will make that same mistake again. But the commitment was low-risk considering that a refund is always an option (assuming Tesla doesn't go bankrupt).

 

[dirkhh]

I suspect that this is more of a rooky mistake on Tesla's part rather than on the reservation holder. Tesla had built up some trust and credibility, which may have been partially damaged over the past few weeks. I don't think Tesla will make that same mistake again. But the commitment was low-risk considering that a refund is always an option (assuming Tesla doesn't go bankrupt).

I like your optimism. Sadly Tesla has been playing fast and loose with promises for quite a while now. And disappointing their core constituency and many of the biggest cheerleaders for the brand? That could have rather bad consequences for them.
We'll see how things look after the first deliveries. But if this causes substantual attrition in reservations that could be bad news.

 

[dsm363]

Whoa! NO! I was referring to Elon's statement at launch that it would be big enough to almost fit a queen size bed. And THAT is what I want to see.

I loved your side-by-side comparison. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Yes. I was at the event too and remember him saying this. And got to witness history as Bonnie reserved Sig #3 at the time before moving up one spot.

 

[mikes_fsd]

got to witness history as Bonnie reserved Sig #3 at the time before moving up one spot.

Is there a post on this forum that goes into further detail?
If not, can you provide some more detail into this history making moment?

 

[dsm363]

Is there a post on this forum that goes into further detail?
If not, can you provide some more detail into this history making moment?

They were taking reservations at the launch party. We went to the back tent very early and got at the front of the line. I didn't need a Model X so didn't reserve anything but Bonnie did and got #3 at the time.

 

[mikes_fsd]

They were taking reservations at the launch party. We went to the back tent very early and got at the front of the line. I didn't need a Model X so didn't reserve anything but Bonnie did and got #3 at the time.

I meant about how she went from #3 to #2, was that because you gave up your spot?

 

[hpham007]

I meant about how she went from #3 to #2, was that because you gave up your spot?

Sounds like either the number 1 or 2 reservation holder canceled :smile: ..

 

[dsm363]

I meant about how she went from #3 to #2, was that because you gave up your spot?

#2 canceled it seems.

 

[bonnie]

Yes, Sig #2 did cancel very early on & let me know. So I asked to be moved up.

(However, he reinstated his sig reservation shortly thereafter and still has a very early number.)

 

[Joel]

I am really sorry you guys feel that way - it was not my intention to imply you are "dumb". What I am saying is that you guys signed up for a car years before it went into production without ever having sat in it, driven it, or even seen the final production version. Surely there is some risk involved with that - i would never do it, especially not when it costs more than my apartment. Having said that, i would have also expected Tesla would give you full specs when you configure.

I understand the frustration when you commit 40k to a car, accept delay after delay only to find out a key feature (to you) has been changed compared to the prototype, but I thought Sigs were aware of the pros and cons of committing at the prototype phase. also, I would expect you could talk to Tesla about pushing back your order until September 29 or later - even if that means converting your reservation to "production".

I apologize in advance for the cross post. Sigs were/are aware of the Pros and Cons. Flat Folding Seats were always going to make it into production.

One final thought: since Elon took the path less traveled with the 2nd row seats and decided to be an artist (created a sculpture of art or however he phrased it) rather than being an engineer (creating function and utility). I have hope because "Art is never finished, only abandoned" - Leonardo da Vinci

Here is the Time Line:

February 9, 2012
"Model X Reveal Event (Click and Turn On Sound / Audio)"

June 16, 2014

November 19, 2014

November 24, 2014

 

[ecarfan]

No doubt some will heap ridicule on this statement, but because no one outside of Tesla really knows just what the 2nd row seats can actually do, it is entirely possible that they may in fact exceed the capabilities of the 2nd row seats shown in the X prototype years ago. There is more to a seat than simply being able to "fold flat". Seats have many functions. And these seats will be optimized to work with the unique Falcon Wing doors, which present their own opportunities and challenges.
I am willing to wait for the full X reveal before forming an opinion about the X seats. Some would rather speculate and pass judgement based on incomplete information. To each their own...

 

[MikeL]

I'm with you ecarfan, which is why I have been careful to preface statements re my disappointment with a capital "IF"
Still excited, thrilled etc.
disappointed ? That's just a potential

 

[mrdoubleb]

I think we can all agree, that the biggest problem is Tesla's lack of communication on everything X related. Basically the last official info was released during the last earnings report. I bet that if all of you who think the second row seat issues is a deal breaker started cancelling orders, they would notice.

 

[KJD]

No doubt some will heap ridicule on this statement, but because no one outside of Tesla really knows just what the 2nd row seats can actually do, it is entirely possible that they may in fact exceed the capabilities of the 2nd row seats shown in the X prototype years ago. There is more to a seat than simply being able to "fold flat". Seats have many functions. And these seats will be optimized to work with the unique Falcon Wing doors, which present their own opportunities and challenges.
I am willing to wait for the full X reveal before forming an opinion about the X seats. Some would rather speculate and pass judgement based on incomplete information. To each their own...

@ecarfan I admire your optimism and please do not take this as ridicule and I agree that we should wait and see what 9/29 will show us.

However having said that, at the present time I am actually glad that I did NOT make an X reservation. Looking at the renderings posted by Nigel New renderings of storage space and 2nd row seats! (9/15)
I just have to say if this is really the best they can do I would call this a major face plant on Tesla's part.

 

[Joel]

I'm with you ecarfan, which is why I have been careful to preface statements re my disappointment with a capital "IF"
Still excited, thrilled etc.
disappointed ? That's just a potential

Just to be clear: I do not care if the seats fold flat or not. I'll order the Signature X regardless. The reasonable expectation is the seats will fold flat.

 

[Lyon]

Just to be clear: I do not care if the seats fold flat or not. I'll order the Signature X regardless. The reasonable expectation is the seats will fold flat.

I received the following from Tesla in an email: "As for the seats, the third row does fold flat. The 2nd row of the Model X does not fold flat, rather tips forward, and slides toward the front row."

Hope that helps.