Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I meant faster than the outgoing S it replaced.
But the 25% larger battery and much higher current draw are obvious, significant, differences even then.
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Worth buying an M3P at this point?
- Thread starter BMWY
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I meant faster than the outgoing S it replaced.
But the 25% larger battery and much higher current draw are obvious, significant, differences even then.
What about when a racer bike pulls up next to you? Can a 3P keep up?Most folks know what’s up at this point but I’ll still catch some folks from time to time that want to play. Some know they get smoked but just want to see it happen then give me a thumbs up or a shaka it’s all good fun. When I had my WRX I’d test cars I knew were faster than me just because it’s fun even though I knew I’d lose.
True story I pulled up to a stoplight late last year with a Hemi Challenger to my left and a Ford Mustang GT500 on my right. My wife looks over at me and says “don’t even think about it”. Sometimes u just gotta take your medicine… I figure she has to forgive me eventually.
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
EVolv3d
Member
If you plan to get a M3P or MYP, I'd try to hold out until the later half of the year if you're not in a rush. Both models will have upcoming updates.
M3P: The CAT3 3D6 Hairpin DU (rear) and LG 5L battery should be on their way. The 3D6 DU paired with the LG battery will produce an extra 16kW over the current model (like the MYP). The LG battery should provide more power over a broader range of conditions (SoC & temperature). This should result in less power reduction when the battery is cold and at lower SoC.
Of course, we can dream for a Model 3 "Plaid" edition with some of the Plaid's new tech.. redesigned rotor armature design (inline star laminates & end-caps), stronger magnets (~35%), upgraded stator/inverter, increased cooling, drag mode, etc. and eventually the 4680 cells, structural battery pack, and megacasting.
The MYPs from Austin will of course have the 4680 structural battery pack and megacastings. There's no question as to if this is happening, just how will one go about ordering a MY from Austin rather than Fremont.. and how much more will it cost? The structural battery pack and megacastings should allow the MYP to drop to around the M3P's curb weight while having the potential to produce more power and increase range depending on the battery capacity. That is if Tesla doesn't handicap it via software limits.
The MYP makes more logical sense as it'll be the better car. I expect that it'll have better build quality, be lighter, more powerful, increased structural rigidity, potentially more range.. and of course increased cargo capacity compared to the Model 3. It'll be better engineering, more practical and more efficient.
I think it'll be a while before the Model 3 gets any major upgrades since the focus seems to be on updates to the MYP & then probably the Cybertruck. Then there's still the Roadster..
M3P: The CAT3 3D6 Hairpin DU (rear) and LG 5L battery should be on their way. The 3D6 DU paired with the LG battery will produce an extra 16kW over the current model (like the MYP). The LG battery should provide more power over a broader range of conditions (SoC & temperature). This should result in less power reduction when the battery is cold and at lower SoC.
Of course, we can dream for a Model 3 "Plaid" edition with some of the Plaid's new tech.. redesigned rotor armature design (inline star laminates & end-caps), stronger magnets (~35%), upgraded stator/inverter, increased cooling, drag mode, etc. and eventually the 4680 cells, structural battery pack, and megacasting.
The MYPs from Austin will of course have the 4680 structural battery pack and megacastings. There's no question as to if this is happening, just how will one go about ordering a MY from Austin rather than Fremont.. and how much more will it cost? The structural battery pack and megacastings should allow the MYP to drop to around the M3P's curb weight while having the potential to produce more power and increase range depending on the battery capacity. That is if Tesla doesn't handicap it via software limits.
The MYP makes more logical sense as it'll be the better car. I expect that it'll have better build quality, be lighter, more powerful, increased structural rigidity, potentially more range.. and of course increased cargo capacity compared to the Model 3. It'll be better engineering, more practical and more efficient.
I think it'll be a while before the Model 3 gets any major upgrades since the focus seems to be on updates to the MYP & then probably the Cybertruck. Then there's still the Roadster..
Blacktes24
Member
That’s an awesome graph. Thanks!Nor sure if there is an updated version of this but I remember mountain pass tested this a while back and posted the dyno.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Most opinions I've seen is they'll offer exactly the same range and performance as Fremont Ys, for exactly the same price (though likely lower actual cost to Tesla, especially as it ramps up production).
Anything else gets kinda ugly from a customer perspective.
There's close to a zero percent chance Tesla is going to allow customers to "choose" where their car is manufactured. That would be a terrible scenario for them, and it's rather doubtful they would inflict that pain on themselves. There's no upside for Tesla, just hassle.
One thing about modern BMW turbo engines. They are way underrated on the dyno and with just a downpipe and a tune came make an extra 100-200 tq/hp. Of course you have to put that power down, but with stock turbos and blocks 9-10 second quarter mile times are possible.
The new M3/M4 are impressive for sure, but are pushing six figures with options and AWD. I thought about one but the M3P is a lot less money.
The new M3/M4 are impressive for sure, but are pushing six figures with options and AWD. I thought about one but the M3P is a lot less money.
You could always go with the M3 LR and add boost and have a nice ride to wait things out. You are only going to give up a bit of acceleration to the M3P off the line, and you should be pretty much heads up with the MYP 0-60 and likely pull it at higher speeds.
Realistically (unless you are at the track all the time) the M3 LR with boost is going to take 99% of the cars on the road and has pretty good range. Having owned a Y (and replacing it with a 3 now), the 3 is a lot more nimble and fun to play with. With the new updates the MY might be lighter but it is still taller, longer, wider and will be heavier so it will feel more like a SUV when you drive it.
If you go with the M3 LR it is a fairly low price of entry and still a blast. It will save you 8k over the performance version. Spend 2k on the boost and you'll definitely definitely up the fun factor though stock you might find it is still fast enough to be fun.
Realistically (unless you are at the track all the time) the M3 LR with boost is going to take 99% of the cars on the road and has pretty good range. Having owned a Y (and replacing it with a 3 now), the 3 is a lot more nimble and fun to play with. With the new updates the MY might be lighter but it is still taller, longer, wider and will be heavier so it will feel more like a SUV when you drive it.
If you go with the M3 LR it is a fairly low price of entry and still a blast. It will save you 8k over the performance version. Spend 2k on the boost and you'll definitely definitely up the fun factor though stock you might find it is still fast enough to be fun.
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heavyD
Member
The general populace will not even realize there are differences and there's very likely no way Tesla is going to let buyers choose where their vehicle is manufactured. I suppose a person could keep ordering and cancelling Y's until they get an Austin VIN. I'm not clear on the non-refundable down payment policy but I assume that if a person is anal enough to want to ensure their vehicle comes from a particular facility then $250 may not be a big deal to get the vehicle they want.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The only way that remains true is if Tesla keeps the most commonly referenced specs (range, performance, etc) identical on both versions.
Which I do expect is what they will do....so folks "waiting" for some significantly better spec Austin car are likely waiting in vain.
scubastevo80
Member
Turbos also add quite a few parts to the equation, so there’s a complexity trade off in adding the turbo itself, piping, intercooler, hardware, oil cooling lines, etc. I’m not discounting this is how you improve performance and lower emissions, but that’s the fundamental problem with ICE these days - you have to add complexity to achieve better results and that, in my opinion, increases costs and decreases reliability.
Yeah that's why I stopped tuning cars back around 2015 they were just getting too complicated with everything packed in so tightly that you could barely turn a wrench.
The unfortunate reality (or fortunate depending on your perspective) is that the only place that ICE cars are faster at this point are at speeds where using that speed is unquestionably illegal and likely dangerous (except for on a track). When I go to the 1/4 mile with my M3P there are a handful of cars that can beat me but they all catch up in the last 500ft or so. Nobody besides a modified Porsche 911 turbo, a Skyline, and a bunch of street bikes have ever been ahead of me at the 1/8 mile point... there are just very few cars that can hang with an EV from a stop up to around 70mph or so which is the only speeds you really can drive on the streets.
There are lots of reasons ICE cars are more fun to drive IMO than the Tesla. Rolling through the gears is fun, the sound and vibration of a revving engine is cool, the surge in power you get from a big turbo feels really cool... but in terms of practical performance in any street setting there really is no contest between my M3P and pretty much anything else on the road. Plus it is so quiet that I don't irritate my neighbors or draw attention from the police by having a loud exhaust.
scubastevo80
Member
Agree - as a former car modder, there was a lot of surprise and excitement in racing. I remember going to the street races on Enterprise Ave in Philly in the last 90s. Modifications, driver and conditions all made a difference. Nowadays, everyone knows what most cars run (due to the availability of public info), particularly electric cars which are ridiculously consistent in their 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. If the Model 3P runs a consistent 0-60 in 3 seconds and 1/4 mile in 11.5 seconds, there's no guesswork in "racing" someone. Your car is either faster or it isn't.
I enjoy my dual motor 3 w/ boost, would like to upgrade to a 3P if I wasn't in the FSD beta program due to the price delta, but would love love love to have a s2000 as a second/weekend car. If I can only have one car, there's nothing from an "all around" perspective that beats the Model 3.
I would say they'll hand with the liter bikes to about 60 mph unless the bike is perfectly launched. Not a lot of guys can pull that off consistently on the street since the surface varies so much. I've been racing motorcycles for over 30 years and getting a good launch on a liter bike is definitely a challenge.
Now if running and extended swing arm you can launch harder with less risk of wheelies. I have a turbo 'Busy and a super charged Kawi and while very fast in the 1/4 and will beat a Plaid, I wouldn't want to line up against one on the street.
On paper the liter bikes will crush the M3P to sixty but that is with everything going right. After 50 mph all the M3P will see is the taillights of the liter bikes. What makes Teslas so potent on the street is their consistently quick launches. Takes no skill to launch a Tesla.
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