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Would you consider a Bolt?

Would you consider a Chevrolet Bolt EV over a Model 3?

  • Definitely yes

    Votes: 27 8.1%
  • Definitely no

    Votes: 250 75.1%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 56 16.8%

  • Total voters
    333
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There is a reason for that, and it is not pent up demand.

No, it's just the way GM sells all its cars. I never said the Bolt was going to be a big seller, but comparing "reservation" numbers as some sort of proof of how unpopular the Bolt will be is just plain wrong since there is no such thing a a Bolt reservation. Better to note the actual facts that GM is projecting battery volume needs to be in the 30k range based on their own statements. Makes the same point, but uses factual information.

We hate it when people spread misinformation about Tesla here, why don't we hold ourselves to the same standard when discussing other EV manufacturers.
 
No, it's just the way GM sells all its cars.
No, it is GM tacitly admitting that reservation numbers would be an embarrassment. Back in the day, in the years leading up to the Gen1 Volt when GM thought they had a hit on their hands, GM had no problem asking interested buyers to sign up and then flaunt the interest. GM put out forward looking statements of 60k sales in the first year with up to 200k annual sales within a year or two -- all this before the first Volt was ever sold.

I am pretty sure, and I think GM knows it too, that the Bolt is going to be a compliance cum propaganda car. Which is too bad since the EV group really do seem sincere and dedicated. The bright ones should go work for Tesla.
 
Where to begin.... I'll just run down the list of various comments on this thread in no particular order.

0. Direct sales and legislative lobbying

GM is unable to do direct sales under present laws and doesn't see this as likely to change anytime soon. They see Tesla becoming a serious potential market threat. Thus, they do not want Tesla to have a direct sales advantage. GM wants a level playing field. This is not particularly surprising or evil. Yes, the state automotive dealership laws are outdated and counterproductive.

1. Price

The Tesla website is ambiguous about pricing but my interpretation is that the $35,000 price of the Model 3 does not include the freight delivery charge (which is $1,200 for the Model S).

The $37,500 price of the Bolt EV listed on the Chevrolet website explicitly includes the FDC.

So, the real price difference is likely about $1,500 or so rather than $2,500.

Someone said the price of the Bolt EV should really be around $19,000. Others said the Bolt was overpriced. In reality, the 30 kWh Nissan LEAF is only $3,500 less than the Bolt for 107 miles of range. Next year's BMW i3 will be 114 miles and as far as I know the base price will still be around $41,000. At least for 2017, the Bolt EV will be a real bargain compared to its then selling competitors.

2. Rear seating

At least a couple of folks think the Bolt's rear seating is too cramped. In reality, it has more headroom and legroom than the Model S. Do you really think the smaller Model 3 will do better?

The S has better hip and shoulder room but those are single measurements that span across the across the entire rear seating area which nominally assumes 3 people. In other words, 51-55 inches or around 4.5 feet wide for all 3 people, rather than ~54 inches for each American-sized ass.

With only two people typically sharing the rear seating area they will hardly notice the difference between the Bolt and S hip and shoulder room. Both cars have relatively flat rear bench seating. If three people are in the back seat they will each have an extra inch of seating width in the S versus the Bolt EV. And the Model S is an unusually wide car. Again, the Model 3 will be a bit narrower and likely so will the rear seating widths.

A Bolt vs Model 3 interior spec comparison is here:

Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

3. Highway range

In truth, we don't yet know what the highway EV range will be for either the Model 3 or Bolt EV. My guess is that the Model 3 will get 215-235 miles on the highway and the Bolt EV will get somewhere between 185-210. If correct, that's a noticeable but not a huge difference.

4. Charging rate

Some people seem to expect the 170 miles in 30 minutes rate that Tesla claims on their website for the Model S. Big batteries charge faster. The base Model 3 seems likely to have a slightly smaller battery than the S60 but be at least 20% more efficient at highway miles.

Based on the faster S60 charging rates I've seen plus the efficiency improvement I would guess the Model 3 can go from 30-185 highway miles in 40 minutes.

Based on what I know today about the Bolt EV, I'll guess it can go from 30-150 highway miles in 55 minutes.

It's very likely that the Model 3 will charge faster but that is somewhat mitigated since most people road tripping will usually arrive at the charger with at least 30 miles in reserve range. The charging rate differences between the two cars are greatest at the lowest battery states of charge.

They will both charge at around the same voltage but the Model 3 can likely start off charging at up to 325-350A while the Bolt EV may be limited to 150-200A or almost half that rate. However, both cars will be charging near or under the Bolt's likely ~150-175A current limit for about the last half of their charging time and so will roughly be at about the same rate during that time.

5. Safety

It's seems very likely that the Model 3 will have excellent safety scores. The Volt has overall 5 star "top safety pick" scores as well. I expect the Bolt EV will also do quite well in spite of its shorter front and rear crumple zones with its mixed aluminum and high strength steel. The flip side is that the Bolt EV will be shorter and that's a win in urban parking areas. We will have to wait for the crash test results.

The Model 3 will have semi-automated driving with radar cruise control and automated steering options. Both will have automatic braking, forward collision warning, blind zone lane change warning, and rear side zone warning, automatic high beam headlights, and lane keep alerts.

6. Charging locations

The Model 3 clearly wins for interstate fast charging locations spread across the country. It can also charge a bit faster on AC although it will often need a J1772 adapter at public locations and those public locations often max-out at the Bolt's AC charging rate of 32A AC.

The Bolt EV doesn't need the adapter. DC charging is slower and less reliable with often only one plug per location. CCS chargers are, however, usably spread out along the west and east corridors where most plugin cars are owned and driven and more will be added with faster peak DC rates over the next 2-3 years as other longer range CCS cars come on the market from multiple makers.

Here are public CCS charging locations for the coastal areas according to PlugShare:

image.jpeg
image.jpeg
 
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6. Charging locations

The Model 3 clearly wins for interstate fast charging locations spread across the country. It can also charge a bit faster on AC although it will often need a J1772 adapter at public locations.

The Bolt EV doesn't need the adapter. DC charging is slower and less reliable with often only one plug per location. CCS chargers are, however, usably spread out along the west and east corridors where most plugin cars are owned and driven and more will be added over the next 2-3 years as other longer range CCS cars come on the market from multiple makers.

Here are public CCS charging locations for the coastal areas according to PlugShare:

View attachment 176497 View attachment 176498

As noted by your comment, and map. The Model 3 wins for the entire middle of the country...especially if someone wants to leave their urban center.

A not insignificant amount of people live between the coasts.
 
As noted by your comment, and map. The Model 3 wins for the entire middle of the country...especially if someone wants to leave their urban center.

A not insignificant amount of people live between the coasts.
Well, your country maybe. My country they seem to treat with scarcely concealed contempt. You can't travel coast to coast in my country, and only a couple of small corridors in those places where there are Superchargers
 
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GM is unable to do direct sales under present laws and doesn't see this as likely to change anytime soon. They see Tesla becoming a serious potential market threat. Thus, they do not want Tesla to have a direct sales advantage. GM wants a level playing field.
Disingenuous.

GM fostered a huge dealership franchise for their advantage. If they chose wrong or it is now not to their liking, tough cookies.
If their franchise is an advantage then until Tesla has the same in quantity there is no 'level playing field.'

What a crock. I hate it when bullies whine.
 
Disingenuous.

GM fostered a huge dealership franchise for their advantage. If they chose wrong or it is now not to their liking, tough cookies.
If their franchise is an advantage then until Tesla has the same in quantity there is no 'level playing field.'

What a crock. I hate it when bullies whine.
I said GM is worried about the future and they should be....
 
Well, your country maybe. My country they seem to treat with scarcely concealed contempt. You can't travel coast to coast in my country, and only a couple of small corridors in those places where there are Superchargers

Yeah, SC network isn't perfect here either...but the state of the CCS network is laughable. Heck, the Nissan dealership where I bought the Leaf hasn't had their DCFC running for months.
 
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Here are public CCS charging locations for the coastal areas according to PlugShare:
This map reminds me of the cell phone LTE maps that use slight color saturation differences to denote different speeds, so that when zoomed out enough the entire country looks LTE.

The under-reported difference between CCS and SC is that the latter can be expected to work. From what I gather CCS is a mixed bag, which is a BIG problem.
 
Yeah, SC network isn't perfect here either...but the state of the CCS network is laughable. Heck, the Nissan dealership where I bought the Leaf hasn't had their DCFC running for months.
I should have noted the nearest CCS/Chademo station is even further away from me than the nearest Supercharger. The nearest Supercharger is farther away from me than the range of any Tesla.
 
So, in addition to my goofy "Dr. Seuss" comment above, I thought, I'd chime in regarding my vote...

I originally voted "Maybe", before I realized the question read "over a Model 3. I then changed it to "No".

I considered that strictly due to availability differences (i.e. a year early), that I'd might consider it. But I realize that the model 3 is simply too compelling a package for me to likely do so.

I've been a supporter of GM introducing the Bolt. Despite GM's faults (of which there are many), it's a step in the right direction towards Elon's goal of the electrification of transport. And I still think that having two med-long range electric vehicles to choose from in a similar price category is great.

Thus, while the Bolt size/styling/feature/brand may appeal to some segment of the population, it does not to me as compared to the Model 3... particularly since the time-to-market difference between them is likely to be smaller with Elon's manufacturing push.
 
I'd prefer a 3, for all of the above reasons, but it won't be this cycle. My current Leaf lease expires 8/17, and I'm not interested in renewing it, so I'm going to do another 3 year lease on whatever seems best for me at that time. By then I'll have had 5 years of 80 mile cars so a ~200 mile range will do fine, whatever the QC situation is, I don't really go anywhere. But if the 3 were available at the same time as other choices, it would be first on the list. Guess I'll have to wait until 2020.
 
Moreover, I notice that GM (Barra et al) are happy to tout their expansive dealership model as a service advantage over Tesla. Where is their desire to keep a 'level playing field' now ?

Blah. GM nauseates me.
I said my perception was that GM wants a level playing field in the future when Tesla is bigger and less precarious and if they want that they need to start lobbying today. I didn't assert that GM wanted a level playing field presently....

And, of course, GM is going to advertise and proclaim that their service model is better and more widely available today just like Tesla proclaims that their direct sales and service centers take better care of their customers than GM dealers take care of GM customers.