Your M3H 'Stalkless' Driving Experience....

[father_of_6]

Good UI design theory would say that to minimize user error, controls should be intuitive and as large as possible to leverage the user's gross as opposed to fine motor skills.

Using the turn signal buttons would require moving my hand to 9 position and distinguishing with my thumb which button I’m pressing by just feel. Or worse, have to look down at the wheel to see where my thumb is. This is even worse if the wheel is not straight.

You guys are missing the point... buttons are *COOL* mmmkay. Stalks are old-fashioned.

Buttons are cool, and Elon said so, and you're just gonna have to stop being lame and start being cool, mmmkay?

Look how many buttons I just pushed to make this post. Zero stalks.

 

[carpe_diem]

Who uses blinkers in a roundabout anyway isn't everyone turning right?

I'm guessing you've not driven a lot of roundabouts.

Some roundabouts have two or more lanes. Quite common in Europe, and they're increasingly a thing here in the PNW too. The idea is that you take the right most lane if you're exiting at the next right, while you use the inner lane if going straight or taking the third left (at a 4-way roundabout). Signaling is helpful to drivers in the right most lane when it's time to merge over.

Even in a simple one-lane roundabout signaling tells approaching drivers whether you intend to exit or keep going. If people don't signal then you typically have to come to a full stop and wait thus defeating the point of a roundabout which is to enable a continuous flow of traffic.

I for one appreciate the courtesy afforded by other drivers when they signal, and will likewise always signal for others. Traffic here sucks enough already, a little driving etiquette can go a long ways to make it suck less for everyone.

 

[gt2690b]

I'm guessing you've not driven a lot of roundabouts.

Some roundabouts have two or more lanes. Quite common in Europe, and they're increasingly a thing here in the PNW too. The idea is that you take the right most lane if you're exiting at the next right, while you use the inner lane if going straight or taking the third left (at a 4-way roundabout). Signaling is helpful to drivers in the right most lane when it's time to merge over.

Even in a simple one-lane roundabout signaling tells approaching drivers whether you intend to exit or keep going. If people don't signal then you typically have to come to a full stop and wait thus defeating the point of a roundabout which is to enable a continuous flow of traffic.

I for one appreciate the courtesy afforded by other drivers when they signal, and will likewise always signal for others. Traffic here sucks enough already, a little driving etiquette can go a long ways to make it suck less for everyone.

ive driven a few even double lane ones but it feels like everyones blinkers are just a disco party and i would never put any stock in them in a roundabout

 

[Jules22]

ive driven a few even double lane ones but it feels like everyones blinkers are just a disco party and i would never put any stock in them in a roundabout

This is true, the number of times I've seen someone coming around indicating left, then blow right past the next exit.

Still I always indicate as it is a courtesy for other drivers, even though I never trust anyone else's indication, and have zero problems doing so with the button indicators.

Someone earlier was making the statement that you have to drive at 9 and 3 which is not correct, the design of the wheel has your hands resting naturally higher than the 9-3 line, which is quite comfortable, of course it only matters when you are manouvering, but even on long trips the natural position is quite comfortable and you always have the indicator buttons right below either thumb so it's zero issue and after a short time feels much more natural than the stalk, which like single pedal driving, I was surprised to find how much better it felt.

 

[ken_neth]

I have a complaint! (So warm and fuzzy feeling in this whiny thread).

The headlight button will not put high beam on and leave it on. t will flash high beam but so far I've not found a way to keep high beam on. I live in high hills/low mountain(?) and drive windy two lane or one lane roads around here.
At night high beams are very helpful and I keep them on to spot deer at distances long enough to avoid them.

 

[E90alex]

I think your only option is auto high beam or flash to pass.

 

[Jules22]

You guys should have the adaptive high beams soon. They are absolutely awesome in being able to keep light on the side of the road while blocking the high beams in specific areas to avoid blinding other drivers.

This is a quick demo of it in action in Australia

 

[3sr+buyer]

Good thing we use doors every now and then or they’d be gone as well.

As long as Musk does not start watching old Dukes of Hazzard shows.

 

[Gasaraki]

View attachment 1014980

It seems the single most discussed feature of the Model 3 'Highland' is the lack of stalks. And quite rightly so. I was very unsure about this, but after a lot of consideration, I traded in my Model 3 for the M3H. I have been driving it for the last two days. I had already decided that I would place a red 'dot' sticker over the right-hand turn button. Therefore Red = Right. (in the dark there is just one button illuminated and that is obviously the Left turn button). I have negotiated several double roundabout turns and plenty of motorway and town driving. Even with the wheel at full lock, the red dot is of course highly visible, so hitting either button, even as the steering wheel is moving, is not a problem. I'm actually beginning to prefer the buttons to the stalks. I suspect a lot is muscle memory and I anticipate removing the red dot before too long. The gear shift on the screen is simply not a problem.
It would be interesting to know how others are getting on .....

The car is superb by the way and does feel so much smoother and quieter.

Up on your stalk was always right and down was left. Why would that be hard when the up button is right and the down button is left?

 

[E90alex]

Up on your stalk was always right and down was left. Why would that be hard when the up button is right and the down button is left?

Not when the wheel is not straight

 

[M42 Fan]

Not when the wheel is not straight

Do people normally indicate after turning their wheel? I indicate and then begin my turn.

I don't remember the last time I needed to indicate when my wheel was turned.

 

[E90alex]

Do people normally indicate after turning their wheel? I indicate and then begin my turn.

I don't remember the last time I needed to indicate when my wheel was turned.

Various situations. In a roundabout. Coming off a coverleaf and having to change lanes to the left. Having to immediately turn or change lanes before current turn is done eg turning left onto a street and immediately right into a shopping center.

Anytime where the wheel is not perfectly straight and your left hand isn’t holding the wheel where the buttons are will require extra cognitive load and often visual confirmation to determine where the relatively small touch point of the turn signal button is. Whereas you can hamfist the turn signal stalk without looking regardless of wheel position.

 

[Jules22]

Anytime where the wheel is not perfectly straight and your left hand isn’t holding the wheel where the buttons are will require extra cognitive load and often visual confirmation

Can assure you that while there may be a very slight 'cognitive load' for the first day or two, there was no need for any visual confirmation after the first press.

The very slight 'cognitive load' is completely gone after a week and within a couple of weeks it feels much better and more intuitive than stalks.

The right hand just goes to where the buttons are as the wheel turns and it is extremely easy to 'find' the correct button with your thumb without having to look or even think about it.

I know that some will struggle and take longer to reach that point, but this is the feedback I get from almost every driver of the new M3 and refreshed S and X. I am a member of a large Tesla club, plus have a presence on X and Youtube, so I get a LOT of feedback from owners of these vehicles, I believe I would have interracted with at least 60-70 at this point and only had 2 or 3 reports of anyone who has driven any of these vehicles for any significant length of time having issues. 90% of them have said they prefer the buttons over stalks after a week or two, some of them came into the stalkless experience very negative. I myself was open to it, but I was surprised that I actually did find them better after such a short time.

It really is a whole 'sky is falling' thing that is being completely exaggerated almost entirely by people who have never tried it or only driven with it for very short periods.

 

[E90alex]

Can assure you that while there may be a very slight 'cognitive load' for the first day or two, there was no need for any visual confirmation after the first press.

The very slight 'cognitive load' is completely gone after a week and within a couple of weeks it feels much better and more intuitive than stalks.

The right hand just goes to where the buttons are as the wheel turns and it is extremely easy to 'find' the correct button with your thumb without having to look or even think about it.

I know that some will struggle and take longer to reach that point, but this is the feedback I get from almost every driver of the new M3 and refreshed S and X. I am a member of a large Tesla club, plus have a presence on X and Youtube, so I get a LOT of feedback from owners of these vehicles, I believe I would have interracted with at least 60-70 at this point and only had 2 or 3 reports of anyone who has driven any of these vehicles for any significant length of time having issues. 90% of them have said they prefer the buttons over stalks after a week or two, some of them came into the stalkless experience very negative. I myself was open to it, but I was surprised that I actually did find them better after such a short time.

It really is a whole 'sky is falling' thing that is being completely exaggerated almost entirely by people who have never tried it or only driven with it for very short periods.

But the people that own one have a much higher incentive to get used to it or tolerate it. Or else they have to get rid of the car and suffer a great financial loss.

So the people saying “it’s better” or “you’ll get used to it” are heavily biased towards liking it or accepting how it works.

I’m not going to buy a car that changes a basic function just for the sake of change in hopes that I’ll get used to it.

 

[Jules22]

But the people that own one have a much higher incentive to get used to it or tolerate it. Or else they have to get rid of the car and suffer a great financial loss.

So the people saying “it’s better” or “you’ll get used to it” are heavily biased towards liking it or accepting how it works.

I’m not going to buy a car that changes a basic function just for the sake of change in hopes that I’ll get used to it.

I disagree. Tesla owners, in my experience, are never shy in coming forward with complaints about things they don't like. For so many of us to say it's better, logically there would have to be something to it.

A number of those I've spoken with were concerned enough that they were looking at the after market options from S3XY buttons, they have all changed their mind.

As much as some may want it to be an issue, I really think it is time this debate was put to bed. If there was an issue, like auto-wipers etc we would be seeing hundreds if not thousands of new owners complaining about them.

 

[Lolo780]

FPV pilot here, zero issues with the turn signal buttons. That being said, it seems the average donkey in my area can't even get through a roundabout properly with a steering wheel.

I have a whole bunch of Tesla cam clips of drivers going straight over the island, hitting the brakes, reversing, near miss accidents... other drivers signaling is the least of my worries.

 

[tm1v2]

I have a complaint! (So warm and fuzzy feeling in this whiny thread).

The headlight button will not put high beam on and leave it on. t will flash high beam but so far I've not found a way to keep high beam on. I live in high hills/low mountain(?) and drive windy two lane or one lane roads around here.
At night high beams are very helpful and I keep them on to spot deer at distances long enough to avoid them.

I think your only option is auto high beam or flash to pass.

@ken_neth @E90alex Holy carp (fish), thanks for calling attention to this. Press and hold to turn the high beams back on? Every time? At least turning them off doesn't require holding.

From the manual:

• Press and hold to turn on high beam headlights - touchscreen displays a brief timer and you must hold for the duration of the timer to latch the high beam headlights to the on position. When headlights are on, press the button a second time to turn them off.

Anyone with a Highland, how long is that button hold timer?

(And no, the auto high beams are not good enough yet to stop caring about manual control, unless the Highland has a new better implementation of them. On our 2021 they've improved with SW updates but still have a habit of obnoxiously flashing on and off at cars ahead or approaching.)

Do people normally indicate after turning their wheel? I indicate and then begin my turn.

@M42 Fan Many places have turns in the roads, not just perpendicular intersections. It's still preferable to signal when you're going to slow and turn at an intersection, even if your steering wheel is already turned.

 

[tm1v2]

I swear Tesla UI team has been taken over by suburban dwellers who never drive their cars beyond suburban sprawl, ruler-straight highways, and parking lots.

Oh, right, Elon moved to Texas.

 

[Jules22]

unless the Highland has a new better implementation of them.

It does, but not available in the US yet. You can see it in action in the video a few posts up.

It's extremely precise and just blocks out the pixels where any vehicles, signs etc are. It is the best implmentation of Matrix headlights I've seen (comparing to BMW and Mazda mainly)

 

[tm1v2]

It does, but not available in the US yet. You can see it in action in the video a few posts up.

It's extremely precise and just blocks out the pixels where any vehicles, signs etc are. It is the best implmentation of Matrix headlights I've seen (comparing to BMW and Mazda mainly)

@Jules22 That sounds really great. I hope Tesla can roll that out here soon, to all the cars they've sold here with matrix headlights.