Your M3H 'Stalkless' Driving Experience....

[Betelgeused]

Yep, that's exactly it, some people will fight change like it's the worst thing in the world.

I compare it to removing buttons on mobile phones. I lived through the first all touch blackberry phone and the uproar was tremendous. Now everyone uses a phone without a keyboard without even thinking about it.

Some people will continue to fight it, but those who try it with an open mind mostly have found it is better and I think it'll only be a matter of time before most then all car makers follow suit as they have been with all of the other innovations Tesla have brought forward.

I don't think the stalks situation is comparative to the Blackberry/Apple situation at all. When Apple released the first iPhone it solved a genuine problem: physical keyboards were not adaptive to your context/content, and screen size was severely diminished by a keyboard you may not need to use.

Apple solved both of these issues by introducing a touchscreen that allowed different contextual buttons to be present in any app, and giving the user more screen real estate.

The general reception to the first iPhone was very positive, and rightly so, because they made genuine usability improvements without sacrificing anything. Any initial skepticism was quickly overshadowed by the success and rave review of the new iPhone. The only reason Blackberry didn't go bust sooner was because they still had better enterprise features than the iPhone, it had nothing to do with the usability of the device itself. When Apple added more enterprise features, Blackberry's market share plummeted.

Tesla's decision to remove stalks does not solve a user experience problem, it actually introduces problems particularly around cognitive load: a driver has to be aware of a moving target they need to interact with. You could argue that the iPhones onscreen keyboard is a moving target when compared to Blackberrys physical keyboard, but it's not at all because it always appeared in the same place.

And I usually find that whenever the conversation goes to 'people should adapt' and 'it's just a muscle memory thing', then you've already lost the battle. This goes for any design, physical and software, because it goes against pretty much every UX principle. I'm 100% positive that in the future, cars will not have stalks - the autonomous features will all be clever enough to make these decisions for you. But until then, it's still the best design option.

And this isn't about people fighting change. It's about people wanting the best experiences.

 

[ken_neth]

I'm an old dog ready again to disprove the adage: "You can't teach an old dog new tricks".
My Highlander is due by March 28th.

Also, I'm thinking that software improvements/additions to the steering wheel button controls are not only possible but likely. Improvements or additional functions which could not be added to electro-mechanical switches as the stalks must be by their operation.

Every owner must acknowledge that Tesla has continuously worked to improve the experience, safety, and reliability of the cars.

 

[Zythryn]

And this isn't about people fighting change. It's about people wanting the best experiences.

This is the issue some seem to miss.
For me, the stalkless IS the better experience.
I find the buttons more reliable.
The automatic turning off after a lane change/turn is very reliable. More reliable than my experience with stalks.

Any change in vehicle make requires relearning controls.
If someone tries it and they have a worse experience (taking into account the above), by all means, don’t buy the car.

But just because it doesn’t give a better experience for you, don’t assume it doesn’t give a better experience for others.

 

[IronCoffee_Max]

If it helps, my wife test drove an X with no stalks. She got it within 3 seconds and told me immediately she preferred it. She's definitely not a person who goes for new tech just because.

 

[Jules22]

This is the issue some seem to miss.
For me, the stalkless IS the better experience.

Yep, once you get the hang of it, which may take some longer than others, you just always have the buttons right there under a thumb and can hit either at any time with zero issue, it's much better than reaching for a stalk.

It's almost 100% non-highland drivers going on about this and most of them have made their mind up without even taking a test drive. I'm sure there are a couple of highland drivers who don't like it, but the dozens I know of have all said they prefer the buttons after about a week on average and that includes a number who were initally not looking forward to them and were considering after market options (which they have now decided they don't want).

 

[Zythryn]

Yep, once you get the hang of it, which may take some longer than others, you just always have the buttons right there under a thumb and can hit either at any time with zero issue, it's much better than reaching for a stalk.

It's almost 100% non-highland drivers going on about this and most of them have made their mind up without even taking a test drive. I'm sure there are a couple of highland drivers who don't like it, but the dozens I know of have all said they prefer the buttons after about a week on average and that includes a number who were initally not looking forward to them and were considering after market options (which they have now decided they don't want).

I was tenative about them myself.
Before Highlands were available to test drive, I sat in a Model S to try it out.
The positioning was good, but the smooth capacitance touch buttons were awful.

Since the 3 did away with the capacitance buttons, all is good.
Perfect? No, but better for me than stalks.

 

[Jules22]

Yeah not sure how it would be without "physical" (push) buttons

 

[carpe_diem]

I think the trick is to NOT signal your turns. If (and around here it's a big if) you're ever pulled over for not signaling just show the car to the cop and ask him to show you how to signal. They're all trained in driving safety after all and should be happy to help....until they can't.

My two biggest pet peeves regarding other drivers: those who drive too slow in the left lane (eg. doing 35 MPH in the left lane of a 45 MPH zone on a four lane hwy), and those who fail to use turn signals.

I sincerely hope you're being facetious. There's already far too many poor drivers in the NW, please don't encourage this behavior.

 

[carpe_diem]

I drove the highland for about 45 minutes and hated the turn signal buttons. I'm sure I'd get used to it over time, but it still just seems like a needless change with no tangible benefit to anyone.

There's a tangible benefit for Tesla. I'm quite certain it costs less to install two tactile button on a steering wheel than a stalk.

 

[E90alex]

There's a tangible benefit for Tesla. I'm quite certain it costs less to install two tactile button on a steering wheel than a stalk.

That’s called cost cutting. No tangible benefit to the end user.

 

[gt2690b]

View attachment 1014980

It seems the single most discussed feature of the Model 3 'Highland' is the lack of stalks. And quite rightly so. I was very unsure about this, but after a lot of consideration, I traded in my Model 3 for the M3H. I have been driving it for the last two days. I had already decided that I would place a red 'dot' sticker over the right-hand turn button. Therefore Red = Right. (in the dark there is just one button illuminated and that is obviously the Left turn button). I have negotiated several double roundabout turns and plenty of motorway and town driving. Even with the wheel at full lock, the red dot is of course highly visible, so hitting either button, even as the steering wheel is moving, is not a problem. I'm actually beginning to prefer the buttons to the stalks. I suspect a lot is muscle memory and I anticipate removing the red dot before too long. The gear shift on the screen is simply not a problem.
It would be interesting to know how others are getting on .....

The car is superb by the way and does feel so much smoother and quieter.

I feel like everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room here... OP is driving on the wrong side of the road!

 

[ken_neth]

I took delivery of my shiny new "Highland" yesterday and somehow made it home (22 miles) using the t/s buttons and not putting my arm out, not even once. It was after all how I passed my first license driving test in 1964. At the time even though many new cars were delivered with stalks California required a demonstration of proficiency using hand/arm signals.

I found the buttons easy to find without looking and am sure a little more time will make I even easier and natural. Also I think I'll soon love the up/down swipe (drive/reverse) and notice that Regen braking works even better than in my 2022 M3 trade-in.

I entirely agree with gt2690b above - the car is superb (!) and I've only gone those 22 miles so hardly know it.

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[Jules22]

I took delivery of my shiny new "Highland" yesterday and somehow made it home (22 miles) using the t/s buttons and not putting my arm out, not even once. It was after all how I passed my first license driving test in 1964. At the time even though many new cars were delivered with stalks California required a demonstration of proficiency using hand/arm signals.

I found the buttons easy to find without looking and am sure a little more time will make I even easier and natural. Also I think I'll soon love the up/down swipe (drive/reverse) and notice that Regen braking works even better than in my 2022 M3 trade-in.

I entirely agree with gt2690b above - the car is superb (!) and I've only gone those 22 miles so hardly know it.

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Congrats mate, it really has been one of the biggest 'storms in a tea cup' that I've seen for a while. People, mostly who have never tried it losing their minds, while most who have actually tried it and driven it for any decent length of time find they love it.

 

[carpe_diem]

That’s called cost cutting. No tangible benefit to the end user.

Heckraiser said "no tangible benefit to anyone" - which is incorrect. No tangible benefit to the end user would be more accurate.

I'm well aware this is all about cost cutting.

 

[father_of_6]

The lack of stalks gives me diarrhea, which doesn't go well with white interior. No thanks.

 

[miatadan]

I picked up my 2024 Model 3 on March 16th…
Since I had my drivers license, I have owned 10 different Ford Mustang GT convertibles, and 5 different Mazda Miata’s ( MX5 )
All were manual transmission, so I never owned a car with stalk needed for shifting. With the Tesla press the brake pedal and it pre selected Drive or Reverse, super simple and since it shows what is selected, and you want to change, quick swipe up or down on screen. What is there to complain about here?

As far as selecting left or right to signal from steering wheel faster than using a stalk. Why this could be a deal breaker ?

 

[Jules22]

What is there to complain about here?

As far as selecting left or right to signal from steering wheel faster than using a stalk. Why this could be a deal breaker ?

Exactly, it's amazing how much of a fuss people who have mostly never tried it keep kicking up, meanwhile ignoring all of those who actually drive these cars every day saying it's actually better.

Watch any of the recent Andy Munro videos where he talks about it, he says it's long overdue. You won't find a more respected expert in automotive engineering.

 

[carpe_diem]

Exactly, it's amazing how much of a fuss people who have mostly never tried it keep kicking up, meanwhile ignoring all of those who actually drive these cars every day saying it's actually better.

Watch any of the recent Andy Munro videos where he talks about it, he says it's long overdue. You won't find a more respected expert in automotive engineering.

In full disclosure, I've yet to drive without turn signal stalks. I struggle though to image how it's easier to locate the correct turn signal button when the wheel is clocked as I'm preparing to exit a roundabout than it is to use a stalk. Even when changing lanes or making a turn I can simply flick the stalk without even having to take my eyes off of the road. Good UI design theory would say that to minimize user error, controls should be intuitive and as large as possible to leverage the user's gross as opposed to fine motor skills.

 

[E90alex]

It’s also extremely fatiguing for me to drive with my hand at 3 and 9 where the controls are. My elbow is usually rested on the door arm rest and my hand is resting at the bottom of the wheel or gripping the 7-8 area.

Using the turn signal buttons would require moving my hand to 9 position and distinguishing with my thumb which button I’m pressing by just feel. Or worse, have to look down at the wheel to see where my thumb is. This is even worse if the wheel is not straight.

Compared to just flicking my hand in the general location of the stalk that is fixed no matter where the wheel is.

 

[gt2690b]

In full disclosure, I've yet to drive without turn signal stalks. I struggle though to image how it's easier to locate the correct turn signal button when the wheel is clocked as I'm preparing to exit a roundabout than it is to use a stalk. Even when changing lanes or making a turn I can simply flick the stalk without even having to take my eyes off of the road. Good UI design theory would say that to minimize user error, controls should be intuitive and as large as possible to leverage the user's gross as opposed to fine motor skills.

Who uses blinkers in a roundabout anyway isn't everyone turning right?