Yeah, as others have said, there is no 3 blink option, it turns off automatically and knows if you were just changing lanes or turning a corner. It also knows if you change lane and it sees turn arrows in that lane, it will keep the indicator going as it knows you are also going to turn the corner. Works extremely well. You can also cancel them manually if you want by hitting the same indicator button again, you do need to do that occasionally when you only do a slight turn to exit a roundabout (probably do that a couple of times in the video).
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Your M3H 'Stalkless' Driving Experience....
- Thread starter Michellis
- Start date
I honestly believe that more and more makers will start to follow suit (At least four makers have done it in limited fasion and/or with concept vehicles already). Every car maker looks for any opportunity to save cents, removing stalks would be a very significant saving, particularly some of the over complicated stalks some cars use. After a very short time getting accustomed to it, it does feel much better than using stalks, I suspect that with the release of the new Model Y, which almost certainly is going to follow in the footsteps of the S, X and now 3 in removing them, having the worlds best selling vehicle with no stalks will ensure more and more people get exposed to the idea, and make it that much more likely that other makers start doing it.
I'm sure many of them may keep it as an option initially, and/or like the model 3 there will be after market options, but I truly believe this is going to become the norm over time (expecting this will happen very slowly, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the first non-Tesla mass market vehicle without stalks in the next year or two and then a slow acceleration after that).
Red tree frog
Member
Red tree frog
Member
I am withholding judgement of the missing indicator stalk until I have a fair bit more time with it.
That said, I do think Tesla may have made a slight error with this design.
You have to take your eyes off the road in many (not all) cases and we don’t all drive around with our indicator thumb diligently poised in the fairly precise position it requires.
The targets are not huge and the design misses the fact that you have to first locate the correct hand position, then your thumb does the rest. Two separate movements using two different muscle memories.
The old-school stalk? You could reach for and locate the indicator stalk and use correctly it in the dark while not thinking or using vision at all.
Why should I need to get used to a new infotainment system when I get a new car?
Why should I need to get used to how the cruise control works when I get a new car?
Why should I need to get used to how to use the AC system when I get a new car?
Why should I need to get used to where the various buttons are when I get a new car?
Lets make all cars identical inside and out so that no one need to get used to anything new.
Also lets never change the user interface on phones and computers while we are at it.
Yep, that's exactly it, some people will fight change like it's the worst thing in the world.
I compare it to removing buttons on mobile phones. I lived through the first all touch blackberry phone and the uproar was tremendous. Now everyone uses a phone without a keyboard without even thinking about it.
Some people will continue to fight it, but those who try it with an open mind mostly have found it is better and I think it'll only be a matter of time before most then all car makers follow suit as they have been with all of the other innovations Tesla have brought forward.
PianoAl
Active Member
Question 1: Anyone have two cars, one with stalks and one without? I'm guessing that would take longer to get used to. We have one car with an automatic trunk and one without. It's not a problem, but I occasionally open or close the trunk the wrong way.
Question 2: Often I request a lane change and the car ignores it. I've found that the solution is to depress the stalk halfway to cancel and then depress it all the way to re-request the change. Also, frequently the blinker stays on when turning into a parking lot. A half press turns it off. How would I do that stalkless?
Question 2: Often I request a lane change and the car ignores it. I've found that the solution is to depress the stalk halfway to cancel and then depress it all the way to re-request the change. Also, frequently the blinker stays on when turning into a parking lot. A half press turns it off. How would I do that stalkless?
Q1: I have this situation, we have the new M3 and an ICE vehicle. I hate driving the ICE vehicle but not too much of an issue adapting. When the new MY comes out we will be replacing the ICE.
Q2: Haven't had that issue on EAP (I'm assuming that's what you mean). The auto cancel has been extremely good at recognising when to turn off, but you can manually do it by just hitting the button again. I do find I have to do that sometimes when coming off a small roundabout where only a partial turn is required to exit.
E90alex
Active Member
None of those are a critical basic function of the vehicles operation. GUIs can’t be identical between companies since it’s intellectual property protected by copyright and patents.
The removal of stalks serves zero functional benefit to the user and is demonstrably worse in usability in many cases. Its only purpose is to save the company money. Sure people can get used to anything new with enough time, but it doesn’t mean it’s an improvement.
Midnightsun
Active Member
As a stalkless model S user for over 2 years now, here is some info.
The turn signal uses the cameras to cancel any signal and I must say they work as promised almost all the time. It even can tell when you are crossing several lanes and will remain on until you settle into the lane you want to stay in. This is acheved by not settling into a lane, rather scooting over the second or even consecutive lanes.
Put on your seatbelt when getting into the car, this activates the auto shift function which will not work if the seatbelt is not engaged. Another bonus is when you stop the car and release the seatbelt, it will automatically put the car into park without any nags such as when opening the door on a Y having not shifted into park prior. The auto-shift function is rather reliable except in parking lots with curbs where it does struggle a bit.
The turn signal uses the cameras to cancel any signal and I must say they work as promised almost all the time. It even can tell when you are crossing several lanes and will remain on until you settle into the lane you want to stay in. This is acheved by not settling into a lane, rather scooting over the second or even consecutive lanes.
Put on your seatbelt when getting into the car, this activates the auto shift function which will not work if the seatbelt is not engaged. Another bonus is when you stop the car and release the seatbelt, it will automatically put the car into park without any nags such as when opening the door on a Y having not shifted into park prior. The auto-shift function is rather reliable except in parking lots with curbs where it does struggle a bit.
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SalisburySam
Active Member
I saw your video on testing out the stalkless experience in Canberra. Could you please elaborate on the benefits of going stalkless compared to the older experience? Have you had any frustrations with the 3H, and where would you like to see any refinement, wrt stalks?
Hard to say why, it just feels clunky now going back to stalks, if I had to I'd get used to it again of course, but it just feels wrong. It takes me longer on a drive getting used to using stalks again than it did getting used to the M3H the first time. I've heard similar feedback from a number of other new M3H owners.
No real frustrations, I think if they implemented an auto indicate function on roundabouts (would only be able to work if you were using navigation) that would help those who were struggling with hitting the left indicator to exit. It does fail to auto cancel on some roundabouts if you only have a slight turn to exit but that just requires another tap on the button so not really a frustration.
Other than that the auto cancel has far surpassed any expectation, knows every time if you are just changing lanes and will cancel perfectly, knows if you are crossing multiple lanes and will stay on. Also recognises turning lanes (even with some pretty shoddy markings) and will keep the indicator going when you change lanes into one.
For the shifting function, it's no different from the old model 3 stalk experience, you are just using the other hand, it feels and operates much better than other vehicles with gear selectors though.
Hope that helps, let me know if there was anything specific you'd like a comment on.
Lindenwood
Active Member
This discussion always reminds me of people trying the first IPhones for 30 minutes and complaining to all their friends how nobody would ever be able to use them over a BlackBerry.
E90alex
Active Member
I mean yes that was a paradigm shift but there are benefits to an all touchscreen phone. More screen real estate when the keyboard is not needed. The ability for different language keyboards in software. Etc. One could argue the loss of tactile feedback was worth the trade off and certainly the industry soon all followed suit.
What exactly is the benefit of going stalkless? I can’t think of one actual benefit to the user, it just saves Tesla money by removing another part. It’s a change for the sake of change instead of a change that is beneficial to the user experience.
Midnightsun
Active Member
I belive the goal is to never have to shift at all which may happen one day as OTA updates improve on things a bit at a time. Right now it does a decent job when against a wall or something bigger. Hated stalk shifting when I first tried it on our previous Mercedes, reminded me of the 60's cars column shifter. Some manufacturers have buttons, some have knobs and some have something else, whats the big deal of moving it to the screen? Tesla borrowed the stalk shift from Mercedes by the way.
It even recognises parking lines, doesn't have to be against a wall. If you are in a car park with the line behind you even when there is no car there, it recognises that you are going to want to go forward. I rarely have to shift on any drive except when reversing into a car park at the very end of the drive.
The cost saving factor is definitely a big thing, and it's the reason many manufacturers have toyed with removing stalks, just none of them have been game enough to do it on any significant production models. Definitely expect them to start appearing more and more in the coming years though, especially when the Model Y, the worlds best selling vehicle, has it in the Juniper.
Saving a few cents is a massive win for car manufacturers, saving process time is also a massive win. Removing stalks is a very significant saving in dollars and complexity, so it's something that manufacturers will jump on.
The cost saving factor is definitely a big thing, and it's the reason many manufacturers have toyed with removing stalks, just none of them have been game enough to do it on any significant production models. Definitely expect them to start appearing more and more in the coming years though, especially when the Model Y, the worlds best selling vehicle, has it in the Juniper.
Saving a few cents is a massive win for car manufacturers, saving process time is also a massive win. Removing stalks is a very significant saving in dollars and complexity, so it's something that manufacturers will jump on.
Tesla have committed to self driving paradigm. I feel they get the confidence to remove stalks because they know eventually the indicating and canceling of turn signals can be achieved and perfected through Tesla vision.
The other manufacturers aren’t yet sold on self driving. As such they can’t afford similar moves.
E90alex
Active Member
Because the screen requires you to consciously look at it and direct your finger to a precise touch target to shift. Whereas you can shift using the stalk with your eyes closed.
And until auto shift is 100% foolproof (which it can’t be because it can’t read your mind), it requires you to consciously look at the screen and confirm the car wants to go in the direction you want to go, and if not make a conscious effort to swipe a particular part of the screen to shift it. All of which takes more time and more mental processing versus just shifting to the desired gear with a flick of the wrist without having to even look.
