It doesn’t matter.
Small claims court will award you the same that arbitration will. The only thing you have lost is your order fee.
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It doesn’t matter.
Yesterday, you had $250 and no car.In the email I got they said they would keep the order fee.
In arbitration I would be asking for them to honor their contract, in small claims court I would be asking for actual damages; which currently would be $7,150.
Yesterday, you had $250 and no car.
Today you are out $250 and still have no car.
Damages? $250.
So basically you're saying that you are gonna go after Tesla over $100. Or you could just get your car now and get it at a lesser cost. Logic fail here.Actually my order fee is only $100. If they cancel my order, and arbitration fails to make Tesla honor the contract, I will place a new one which will cost me $7,250 more, and once I take delivery I will have $7,250 of damages because they breached the original contract.
If you want to see precedent look in the Tesla Energy forum. Tesla didn't want to honor some of the Tesla Solar Roof contracts they had made, and because the people wouldn't accept a modified contract Tesla canceled their orders. They were taken to court and ended up reinstating the original contracts because they didn't have a valid cause to terminate them. I would assume Tesla uses the same internal lawyers between the automotive and energy sides, so they should be aware that they can't just terminate contracts/agreements.
If I bought the car now I would be throwing away about 8%, ~4 months, of the warranty. (And if the incentive does get approved, and the Model Y, and I, qualify for it, it would actually be cheaper for me to wait until next year and pay the higher price. Assuming of course that they don't raise the price again.)So basically you're saying that you are gonna go after Tesla over $100. Or you could just get your car now and get it at a lesser cost. Logic fail here.
You are missing one key factor.Actually my order fee is only $100. If they cancel my order, and arbitration fails to make Tesla honor the contract, I will place a new one which will cost me $7,250 more, and once I take delivery I will have $7,250 of damages because they breached the original contract.
If you want to see precedent look in the Tesla Energy forum. Tesla didn't want to honor some of the Tesla Solar Roof contracts they had made, and because the people wouldn't accept a modified contract Tesla canceled their orders. They were taken to court and ended up reinstating the original contracts because they didn't have a valid cause to terminate them. I would assume Tesla uses the same internal lawyers between the automotive and energy sides, so they should be aware that they can't just terminate contracts/agreements.
He doesn’t get that he’s already outside his window lolYou are missing one key factor.
Tesla is honoring the sales price for you. You just aren’t happy with their timing. The Tesla solar people were never given the opportunity to take delivery.
Wrong, they have yet to assign me a VIN, so the 3 month clock in the contract hasn't started. If they assign me a VIN tomorrow, I will honor the contract and take delivery in February. (Earlier than I want, but acceptable.)You are missing one key factor.
Tesla is honoring the sales price for you. You just aren’t happy with their timing. The Tesla solar people were never given the opportunity to take delivery.
He doesn’t get that he’s already outside his window lol
There should be no emotion involved in this.Sure I get it.
I just think its insane people are mad at Tesla for doing this.
Read deeper. Technically they only have to hold it for you once. They did you a huge favor.
My order should not populate the list every quarter because I told them exactly when I wanted my vehicle, January 2022. If they have proper logistics planning, they should include this information. It sounds like a lot of people who don’t like those of us with orders on hold don’t fully understand the hold system. You don’t just place an order and say put this on hold indefinitely. There is a finite end date when you place something on hold. By them allowing my order to be placed on hold with this finite end date, they acknowledged that this was acceptable. They can’t go back now and change that without breaking their agreement.That sounds like a lot of work when you could just get your car...
You are already outside that window. They would've had a car for you in one of the previous two quarters. So everything you're saying wouldn't hold up if you tried to go to court for w/e reason. Those 6 months are two delivery windows you could've taken advantage of, and now its the 3rd. If you would've just taken delivery and not pushed your order off they would've had your car in the pipeline each quarter.
I've seen a few folks throwing out legal cases. Whats the point? Go buy any other brand and find the same level of willingness to stay in a price bracket as they rice from materials. Rav4's are going for 10-40K over MSRP.
Your order populates on the list every time they plan logistics. When you delay or don't match thats a build they have to account for. Things are done quarterly. You delaying means a anticipated build has to find a new home which obviously isn't hard, but it still jams up the system and wastes someones time and costs money.
You’re taking advantage of a system meant for health, travel or financial implications at the time of your delivery though.My order should not populate the list every quarter because I told them exactly when I wanted my vehicle, January 2022. If they have proper logistics planning, they should include this information. It sounds like a lot of people who don’t like those of us with orders on hold don’t fully understand the hold system. You don’t just place an order and say put this on hold indefinitely. There is a finite end date when you place something on hold. By them allowing my order to be placed on hold with this finite end date, they acknowledged that this was acceptable. They can’t go back now and change that without breaking their agreement.
when in arbitration or small court, could Tesla argue that they have never assigned you a VIN/delivery date because you didn’t complete the task?Wrong, they have yet to assign me a VIN, so the 3 month clock in the contract hasn't started. If they assign me a VIN tomorrow, I will honor the contract and take delivery in February. (Earlier than I want, but acceptable.)
Nope, as I stated above, the 3 month clock hasn't started for me yet because they have never assigned me a VIN/delivery date.
If they wanted to force people to take delivery by the end of 2021 they would have had to assign a VIN to them by the end of September. That ship has sailed, at least for my order. If other people had a VIN assigned and then asked for their order to be held they could be in a different situation.
I’m interested to know where this hold policy is actually written somewhere for customers. It’s not in the order agreement, so it’s really more like a courtesy they’ve extended.The length matters. I am about 7 months out from my original order and I was just told I needed to confirm that I am still interested by a certain date. They did not give me a drop dead date for taking delivery like the order floating around from 18 months ago. I said I would be ready in January 2022 as I have said since day 1 when I placed the hold. I think the hold policy is up to 12 months or so. The fine print says you have to take delivery once your car is ready. If you don't have a VIN assigned, your car isn't ready for delivery. Fine print goes both ways, it helps if you actually read it and understand what it means. As long as you use the hold option (this is Tesla authorized, not some under the table thing) before you have a VIN assigned, you are following the rules. If Tesla wants to change that then they need to make it public.
As I read things, part of the issue is that there was no official written policy, at least until recently. Placing an order for a vehicle that may come in a few months, or may not, requires a bit of flexibility on both the customer and Tesla. There are many reasons people would need to put their orders on hold, e.g., people go out of town for extended periods, have cars coming off lease, etc. In my case, our family will need a third car in the early Spring (not sooner) so our daughter will have wheels to get to school. The problem is compounded by Teslas complete inability to forecast an accurate delivery date. Having a car come months earlier or later than originally forecast can create problems for the customer, and a hold system is a very consumer friendly way to address this issue.I’m interested to know where this hold policy is actually written somewhere for customers. It’s not in the order agreement, so it’s really more like a courtesy they’ve extended.
They’ve been accommodating, hold requests have gotten out of hand, and now they’re removing the holds.
If you do not take delivery of your Vehicle within ninety (90) days of placing your order at no fault of Tesla’s, we may cancel your order and keep your Order Fee, Order Deposit and Transportation Fee.
No car dealer can give you an EDD right now.As I read things, part of the issue is that there was no official written policy, at least until recently. Placing an order for a vehicle that may come in a few months, or may not, requires a bit of flexibility on both the customer and Tesla. There are many reasons people would need to put their orders on hold, e.g., people go out of town for extended periods, have cars coming off lease, etc. In my case, our family will need a third car in the early Spring (not sooner) so our daughter will have wheels to get to school. The problem is compounded by Teslas complete inability to forecast an accurate delivery date. Having a car come months earlier or later than originally forecast can create problems for the customer, and a hold system is a very consumer friendly way to address this issue.
The terms and conditions are a legally binding contact, and they only recently added the following sentence:
As I understand, older orders do not have this sentence. Please correct me if I’m wrong about this. Without it, arbitrarily canceling an order could be legally dubious. The only thing I see is that they say they can cancel your order (and refund your fee) if the product you ordered becomes discontinued. That probably protects them for really old orders, since their cars slowly change over time.
I’m sure Tesla has really good lawyers working on this, or they wouldn’t be threatening to cancel these orders. Or maybe they are just being arrogant, who knows. In any case, the 90 days in the new agreements should protect Tesla from this situation in the future.
“Hold” works great when 1% of people want to delay delivery for a week or two when they are out of country.
Did they cancel your order?Tesla isn't even accommodating this scenario. I was away from home for the Thanksgiving holiday; my delivery date fell on Nov 18-19-20 and I had to give up my VIN, they wouldn't hold until today 11/28.
Did they cancel your order?
When you placed your order, did you go through all the required tasks or only submit your order and then sit on it for some weeks/months before completing them? It seems like a few facts are missing from the timeline of events. If Tesla is indicating they will cancel your order, then something has gone awry.Wrong, they have yet to assign me a VIN, so the 3 month clock in the contract hasn't started. If they assign me a VIN tomorrow, I will honor the contract and take delivery in February. (Earlier than I want, but acceptable.)
Nope, as I stated above, the 3 month clock hasn't started for me yet because they have never assigned me a VIN/delivery date.
If they wanted to force people to take delivery by the end of 2021 they would have had to assign a VIN to them by the end of September. That ship has sailed, at least for my order. If other people had a VIN assigned and then asked for their order to be held they could be in a different situation.