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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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I don't know why you'd put the lower bound of your guess below the minimum amount Tesla already list on the website. 215 is supposed to be the minimum range for Model 3 in base config. So they should meet or exceed that. 215-249 would be good.
That, and Elon's latest tweet all but confirms my suspicion that a base 3 will out-range a Bolt.
 
Model Y "In a few years". That sucks. That sounds like 2020 or later. I was hoping for Model Y in 2019.
Eh. I suspect (for reasons expressed here many times before) when they decide to launch Y it will be pretty quick from announcement to cars in customer hands. Being built on the Model 3 platform and learning from the mistakes made trying to do that with S/X, I suspect its basically a done deal, and Y's launch date will be primarily driven by when Tesla can start coming close to meeting the demand for 3 more than anything to do with design limitations of Y.
 
What do you think are the chances Tesla will reach a 1 TRILLION market cap by 2025 ?
And if it ever reach it by 2025, do you think there will still be good growth potential (superior to the market as a whole), or it will be time to cash out ?
 
What do you think are the chances Tesla will reach a 1 TRILLION market cap by 2025 ?
And if it ever reach it by 2025, do you think there will still be good growth potential (superior to the market as a whole), or it will be time to cash out ?
I would say 10% chance.
My plan is to collect the dividends... maybe in 15 years :rolleyes::D
I'm 23, i would like to never sell TSLA.
 
Eh. I suspect (for reasons expressed here many times before) when they decide to launch Y it will be pretty quick from announcement to cars in customer hands. Being built on the Model 3 platform and learning from the mistakes made trying to do that with S/X, I suspect its basically a done deal, and Y's launch date will be primarily driven by when Tesla can start coming close to meeting the demand for 3 more than anything to do with design limitations of Y.
Announcing the MY will probably need to be at or after announcing GGF #3/4/5. Building the MY will be when one of GGF#3/4/5 is done. GGF#1 took 1.5-2 years to hit volume, so that fits the "few year" time frame for MY
 
I stand by my prediction that it will have a HUD, and that it will be introduced on the S/X first. This is entirely consistent with their design concepts: make a car that is as simple as possible mechanically, include big screens and computers and make as much as possible a "software problem". By including a HUD, just a display after all, they can do cool augmented reality stuff. This will be MORE important, not less for a self-driving car. You will want to know what it is keying off of and what it is missing.
I thought so too, until this tweet which seems to imply no hud:

@akaWrecks @ckalapala Only Model S will have the seven seater option, more cargo space, plus higher range, acceleration, two screens vs one, auto extend handles …
 
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Eh. I suspect (for reasons expressed here many times before) when they decide to launch Y it will be pretty quick from announcement to cars in customer hands. Being built on the Model 3 platform and learning from the mistakes made trying to do that with S/X, I suspect its basically a done deal, and Y's launch date will be primarily driven by when Tesla can start coming close to meeting the demand for 3 more than anything to do with design limitations of Y
I don't think so. If they do that it could be decades before they launch MY.

I think it's more likely to be based on production logistics. They can't add the assembly line in Fremont. Maybe at the next North American Gigafactory?
 
He said AWD in 6-9 months. So in Elon time early 2019, assuming they do not make a lot of cars this year.

That will disappoint a lot of M3 reservation holders, which is perhaps not a problem.

There may be a normalization of "Elon time" going on right now at Tesla; they did, after all, just hire a CIO (chief information officer). If it's been coined as a cliché by now, it's something their board is well aware of. So, I wouldn't quite write off meeting publicized schedules just yet.
 
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I don't understand why you quoted my post. I don't see a contradiction.

I was responding to this exchange:
convo.JPG

I was confused by both you and Useless login's comment. I think it's clear that in all possibilities there will be a center touch screen, and that would be sufficient for any input/control purpose, even if there was a HUD. The HUD question is about another display. Maybe we are all saying the same thing.

I thought so too, until this tweet which seems to imply no hud:

@akaWrecks @ckalapala Only Model S will have the seven seater option, more cargo space, plus higher range, acceleration, two screens vs one, auto extend handles …

Well those of us grasping at straws hoping for a HUD interpret that as him being coy. If the car has 1 center screen and 1 HUD then his tweet is still technically correct. And, if the HUD does get added to the model S/X then it would still have +1 display device so the spirit is still true too.
 
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My math is all wrong, so everyone can play with their own numbers.

What do you think are the chances Tesla will reach a 1 TRILLION market cap by 2025 ?
And if it ever reach it by 2025, do you think there will still be good growth potential (superior to the market as a whole), or it will be time to cash out ?


My math is all wrong, so everyone can play with their own numbers.


The businesses Tesla are in:
  • Electric Vehicle: potentially billions of cars planet wide, which Tesla can get a small chunk of. I Google'd # of cars on planet: says got to 1 billion in 2011, so let's say 1 billion. 1 billion / 15 years/car lifetime = 66 million/year. Tesla wants to do 500,000/year within a few years, so that would be 1/133rd of the potential market. Room for growth, and room for lots of competition. How competitive would Tesla be? They have dozens of competitors; is dozens >= 133? No, but it's close. They have to do really well, and then they can get an outsized chunk of that 133. Let's say it's 1/30th of the market: about 2 million per year. Assuming about $2,000/vehicle profit, that's $4 billion/year profit.
  • Energy storage: half a quintillion BTU's/year worldwide for all devices (Google says 493 quadrillion BTU's in 2008): 144484037594905536 watthours/y, or 144quadrillion watthours/y. Let's do per day: about 400 trillion watthours/day. If we assume half of that use is charging during sunlight and half is discharging during evening, then 200 trillion watthours/day. Let's assume there will be about 30 companies in this space, and as a rough guess number use the $250/kWh for PowerPack (utility scale) for all PowerWall's, and 10% profit margin (that seems like totally false assumptions) ... 200 billion kWh/day so that seems like around a marketplace of $50 trillion divided by 30 companies so $1.6 trillion, then 10% profit margin so $166 billion. That will be spread out over about 25 years, so $6 billion per year profit.
  • They're also trying to get into solar panels, which would replace about half the above energy production, but I don't know what their market share would be -- let's assume 1%. So, let's assume half the daily energy (400 trillion wH/day) is solar, so 200 trillion wH/day, and 1% of that is 2 trillion wH/day. Let's say that takes 30 years to build, so 66 billion wH/day. So, 5 hours at 200 watts/panel = 1,000Wh/day. That's 66 million solar panels per year. At $200/panel with 5% profit margin, that would be $660 million/year profit.
So, just napkin calcs gives us around $10 billion/year profit by about 2027. If they bring all that money to the bank, they can have $100 billion by 2037. $100 billion / market cap = 2.38, so if they had that cash in bank, they'd be minimum SP $619 if only counting cash in bank in 2037 and no dilution or future business and they saved exactly 1 decade profit (based on $42 billion mkt cap & $260 share price right now).

But, let's look at some variables: what if the solar panels are a loss leader and lose about $1 billion per year, the energy storage has a 15% profit margin and they have 1/15th of the market so they get $18 billion per year profit, and the auto sector they get 1/20th of the market at 3 million/year and their profit margin is $3,000/vehicle, so their profit would be $9 billion per year, they'd net $26 billion/year, so $260 billion/decade, or minimum SP $1,609 if only counting cash in bank in 2037 and no dilution or future business and they saved exactly 1 decade profit (based on $42 billion mkt cap & $260 share price today).

Of course, I did everything as linear, which none of it is, not in the least.

And, everything above is just plain silly and dumb because it is a growth company and they would basically never hold more than a work-ready cash balance until they've started to saturate the growth potential, and they might even dilute shares if they saw clean growth opportunities.

Oh and what if storage is a loss leader for the last 10 years and solar is a profit maker? Lots of variables. Obviously, shouldn't sell things at a loss if can help it.

What about 2025? I don't know! One quarter of that? One half? One tenth?
 
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As much as I think HUD is cool, at this point I'm sure the simplest is the closest to truth, Elon says there is only 1 screen, wanted to keep the car simple, I'm going to take what he said at face value, expect 1 center touchscreen and done.

I suspect you are correct. :oops:

Then in hindsight we will wonder what the hell the "like a spaceship" comment was about.
 
From an investment point of view, the only disadvantage I see is that ASP wise for the first quarters of 3 deliveries, we will be much closer to $35k than many previously modeled. No Performance, no Dual Drive and (possibly) no large pack limit the upside in price quite severely. And those are just the ones we know for sure won't be available. Next gen seats, roof upgrades, interior upgrades, tech packages : those could all be on the chopping block too. Gross margins on options are generally higher too so there is a case to be made that overall GM will be lower too than generally modelled so far.
Throw in AP price you'll get 40k+. High margin option to help overall margin as well.
 
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