There is another thread on point here I have seen before. My understanding is the battery has a buffer of about 5% past the 0 indicator on the screen to encourage owners to not discharge too far too often rather than lock it out like Audi for instance. So EPA cycle is to true (not indicated) zero. The actual mileage achieved does not take into account energy to power the rest of the car functions, sentry, idling, maintain battery temp, etc.
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2021 M3LR Range only 330
- Thread starter Robmathieson
- Start date
As has been said before, EPA is displayed in the car not WLTP. From the manual:
"When fully charged, the driving range displayed in Tesla vehicles is based on EPA certification and does not account for your personal driving patterns or external conditions"
"When fully charged, the driving range displayed in Tesla vehicles is based on EPA certification and does not account for your personal driving patterns or external conditions"
Agreed, so a long range should be 353 epa. Plugged mine in 5.5 hours ago to charge to 90%, currently showing a full charge with a rated range of 336, not sure where 17 (23 for the OP) has disappeared from on a brand new battery/car? Maybe it will increase after a couple of charge cycles?
MrBadger
Badger out
Drew57
Active ember
It's winter, cold & wet so expect to be nowhere near rated EPA.
Don't stress, switch to battery % instead.
Don't stress, switch to battery % instead.
I can do the school run in stop-start traffic never above 20mph sat at a toasty 21C and have horrendous 380wH/mi. Or, I can put on a big coat switch off the heating and every device and get a semi-clear run to school on under 30wH/mi (I'm sure I can manage the trip their with negative, just need to find a few more gains). True range depends on so many factors, and at this time of year with very low outdoor temperatures last week the heating is what kills it!
I find the EPA mileage thing a waste of time. I use %. And, if I want estimates of range then use the Energy graph.
I find the EPA mileage thing a waste of time. I use %. And, if I want estimates of range then use the Energy graph.
spooksman
Member
If you get 280 miles out of a long range you are getting what you should be getting. I can’t honestly believe people actually expected to get 353 miles of real world range. So why expect the car to show it? Just switch to %, it only matters when you do long trips and you have super chargers as compensation for those! On the positive side with the new heat pump at least the range on the new ones will hold up much better in the winter, my old SR+ was getting sub 150miles on a charge driving round town when it was cold. Hopefully new LR I pick up next week is going to be better than that!
I don’t think, certainly I didn’t, expect to get the 353. What I did expect, maybe naively is for the rated range to match the epa on a fresh from the factory car. I, and again I think most, get that it’s an almost fictional figure...but the manual does clearly says that the driving range is based on epa certification. Unless I’ve missed it, and happy to be corrected here, the 2021 M3 LR has an epa certified range of 353 miles, so why isn’t it showing it? I ask that as an open question. I thought the driving range displayed wasn’t affected by weather? I understand a predicted range will drop, but I believed that the charge blindly ignored the weather and just topped back up to the epa range. Again, this is on a brand new vehicle/battery.
Is your battery at the optimum temperature for max capacity?
"Cold temperature increases the internal resistance and lowers the capacity. A battery that provides 100 percent capacity at 27°C (80°F) will typically deliver only 50 percent at –18°C (0°F)."
The mileage is calculated from the capacity of the battery at that point in time so if the battery is cold it won't hold as much energy as when it is warm. Hence the mileage reading will be below what the maximum can be,
So I'm guessing that you'll see this increase/decrease as the weather gets warmer/colder.
"Cold temperature increases the internal resistance and lowers the capacity. A battery that provides 100 percent capacity at 27°C (80°F) will typically deliver only 50 percent at –18°C (0°F)."
The mileage is calculated from the capacity of the battery at that point in time so if the battery is cold it won't hold as much energy as when it is warm. Hence the mileage reading will be below what the maximum can be,
So I'm guessing that you'll see this increase/decrease as the weather gets warmer/colder.
Thank you. All a learning curve...and as said before I’m certainly not expecting the EPA range, let alone the WLTP. I’d wrongly assumed it would always show the epa rated range on a ‘fresh’ battery (putting aside degradation for one moment) regardless of temperature though. I’ll await the 25c days that I’m sure are just around the corner for Yorkshire
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Would you expect a brand new conventional car to return the exact same mpg shown in the specification?
Very few come close. Take my wife's Yaris Hybrid as a reasonable example. The specification gives a mixed mpg figure of 76mpg. That's completely mythical, the very best we've ever been able to get out of it, in mid-summer, is around 65mpg. Right now, in winter, it's struggling to give 50mpg (all cars use around 20% more "fuel" in winter).
Converting the performance of her car into range illustrates this even better:
- The specification range with a full tank is 699 miles
- The best actual range in summer is about 598 miles
- The typical range in winter is about 460 miles.
Everyone just accepts that all ICE cars are specified like this, and EVs are no different at all. The law states that the manufacturers have to quote efficiency figures (range or mpg) according to a set test schedule, and we all know those test schedules are generally very unrealistic.
I’ll await the 25c days that I’m sure are just around the corner for Yorkshire
I'm picking mine up from Edinburgh next week. I'll be happy with triple figures
No, I just expected it to operate as stated in the manual. I never expected to get the epa rating, I neither expect to get the ICE mpg figures. I haven’t charged to 100% as yet, only extrapolated from 90%, so I’ll try that. Either there’s something wrong with the car or the manual is incorrect, I’m guessing the latter. External conditions or driving behaviour isn’t supposed to affect it.
Thank you. All a learning curve...and as said before I’m certainly not expecting the EPA range, let alone the WLTP. I’d wrongly assumed it would always show the epa rated range on a ‘fresh’ battery (putting aside degradation for one moment) regardless of temperature though. I’ll await the 25c days that I’m sure are just around the corner for Yorkshire
Once the temperatures are consistently in the teens C on dry roads you do see the difference in range. On quiet country roads I've used 50% battery in my SR+ and covered 130 miles .. so beating even the WLTP figure for my car. Of course that's not a realistic expectation in different circumstances and certainly not with shorter runs at low temperatures. Now is not the time to be expecting to judge maximum range unfortunately. Like others I have switched to percentage so I don't even know what my car routinely claims its range to be! I know in reality it will depend on so many factors so there's no point seeing a number of miles displayed after charging. If I want that information I can look at the energy graph ... particularly helpful in "Trip" mode.
I think it reflects how it’s been driven and how the battery is calibrated and as some people have mentioned the cushion below 0% (if that is 5% then 100% should show 335miles on the basis you can theoretically drive it to -5% before you call the tow truck. So there are lots of factors in the mix. Agree that there is some fiction on that mix too!! This is better than the mpg claims, which is the equivalent of range for EVs at the moment.
Weather does factor as recent driving history counts so if you have been driving in the cold it’s going to slide into the equation.
And the shown range is still more than you will get. But there is at least less scope for more severe disappointment then. I would prefer to see something approaching reality than some fictionalised estimate.
I kind of view it like the old ICE car, it always told me after filling a range that was usually about 200 miles more than I would get in reality! It is still annoying I know. But the cars are great.
MrBadger
Badger out
I think that is a perfectly reasonable thing to expect and tbh, that is how it should be.
I suspect at some point, as has happened in the past, Tesla will push out a software update to reflect this for newer models if the range you are seeing at 100% is not the EPA range. An example of this occurred for recent Model S,X and Y on 2020.28.x.
Release notes 2020.28.x said:
However, what will occur over the life of the car as the battery calibration drifts and/or battery deteriorates is that 100% will no longer reach the EPA range when driven in exact same circumstances, and this change in range will be reflected in the displayed mileage at 100%. But on a brand new car, this should not be the case.
As for driving the car and not getting the EPA range, then yes, that is down to many things, but your mileage display at 100% should reflect the EPA range, which it does not.
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Glan gluaisne
Active Member
The manual is spot on. It clearly states that the range achieved will vary with driving behaviour and external conditions. It also states clearly that it's like other cars in this respect. As mentioned in other threads on this topic, the car systems have no way of knowing how the car is going to be driven in future, so the guesstimate displayed is based on the past. There's a good reason that EV owners refer to the range display as a "guessometer", it's because it only roughly guesses what it thinks the range may be, it can't possibly do anything other than guess, just because it cannot see into the future.
I just wish they wouldn’t make a statement of fact that the epa range is displayed regardless of external factors and driving behaviour. I understand actual range is affected by many factors, just as it is with an mpg figure. I don’t believe ICE manufacturers state range though, only mpg which they have then caveat dependent upon driving conditions. I make my living on requirement elicitation and design of business process and software so it just winds me up that a requirement had just not been met
The requirement from someone has stated (paraphrasing) “The Epa certified range MUST be displayed regardless of external factors”. That requirement must have been tested and has obviously failed. It’s either a requirement or it isn’t, it passes or it doesn’t. It’s gone into design with a failed, possibly caveated, outcome.
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