2021 M3LR Range only 330

[init6]

I think the manual is referring to the range you'll get when driving - not charging. JibJab's logic is correct. If the figure shown at the end of a full charge is not impacted by external factors then it should match the EPA figure - that's what the manual says should happen. But as anyone who has charged a battery in the cold knows, you'll not get the maximum capacity from the battery. The manual could be clearer at expressing the external factors that limit the charging capacity.
Although if JibJab hasn't actually charged to 100% then we may find that the charging curve is not linear...

 

[Jibjab]

The manual is spot on. It clearly states that the range achieved will vary with driving behaviour and external conditions. It also states clearly that it's like other cars in this respect. As mentioned in other threads on this topic, the car systems have no way of knowing how the car is going to be driven in future, so the guesstimate displayed is based on the past. There's a good reason that EV owners refer to the range display as a "guessometer", it's because it only roughly guesses what it thinks the range may be, it can't possibly do anything other than guess, just because it cannot see into the future.

It states it doesn’t account for personal driving patterns or driving conditions. Unless I’m looking at the wrong rangeometer?

 

[Jibjab]

I think the manual is referring to the range you'll get when driving - not charging. JibJab's logic is correct. If the figure shown at the end of a full charge is not impacted by external factors then it should match the EPA figure - that's what the manual says should happen. But as anyone who has charged a battery in the cold knows, you'll not get the maximum capacity from the battery. The manual could be clearer at expressing the external factors that limit the charging capacity.
Although if JibJab hasn't actually charged to 100% then we may find that the charging curve is not linear...

Absolutely guilty as charged, I’ll do that first before I whinge again

 

[MrBadger]

It states it doesn’t account for personal driving patterns or driving conditions. Unless I’m looking at the wrong rangeometer?

Its easy to compensate for the effects of temperature on the charge bar indicator. If you change the setting to % the slide it full right, if the display says 100% then no temperature compensator is at work. If it says less than 100%, then for every 1% less than 100%, then it is possible that you mileage range may be out by as much as 3-1/2 miles per 1%. But I don't think that is what you are seeing here.

Hopefully another person with a 2021 model car can confirm their 100% mileage reading.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

It states it doesn’t account for personal driving patterns or driving conditions. Unless I’m looking at the wrong rangeometer?

Range is dependent on the environmental conditions set in the test cycle, so will vary with temperature, humidity, air density, etc. Unless the car is sitting at the exact conditions specified in J1634 the indicated range may be out, by an amount that depends on the difference between environmental conditions the car measures and those specified in J1634. The car does seem to adjust the indicated range based on what it knows, so things like temperature make a difference.

 

[Jibjab]

Range is dependent on the environmental conditions set in the test cycle, so will vary with temperature, humidity, air density, etc. Unless the car is sitting at the exact conditions specified in J1634 the indicated range may be out, by an amount that depends on the difference between environmental conditions the car measures and those specified in J1634. The car does seem to adjust the indicated range based on what it knows, so things like temperature make a difference.

Thanks for the reply. I guess there’s an EPA upper and lower range of sorts then? It seems odd that the manual just states that the range (obviously the fictional figure) isn’t affected, or more accurately doesn’t take into account, by temperature and driving behaviour.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

I've just written to Tesla and suggested that they stop advertising the M3LR range as 360 miles and instead say the range is 100%

Of course, saying range is 100% is meaningless, but it seems saying range is 360 miles is also meaningless.

If it wasn't for BEV's (in Europe)being forced to advertise WLTP mileage, they'd be possibly subject to accusations of false advertising.

At least it is better than the magical thinking on BEV range from marketing departments, for example Audi and Porsche: where they claimed they'd have 300 miles range and still struggle to get just over 200 miles on the EPA test.

 

[RabC63]

Absolutely guilty as charged, I’ll do that first before I whinge again

I have filled my one week old M3LR to 100% twice now for longer trips. It maxed out at a forecast range of 330 miles as you predicted; I too wondered why it doesn’t at least start from the claimed EPA max range; yes, we know it won’t actually do it in the real world. I was encouraged though that on my 140 mile trip outbound on Thursday, after losing 5 miles from the range predicted after about 15 miles travelled, I arrived with no more missing miles - still just 5 miles missing from the starting range, off the distance travelled. I did drive very gently though, including sitting in the slipstream of a few HGVs going my way... I’m fairly sure that could have got back without a top up, but chickened out and sipped an extra 30 miles at a supercharger just in case!

 

[MrBadger]

I have filled my one week old M3LR to 100% twice now for longer trips.

When you charge above a certain SoC, iirc around 92%, you lose regen so the car is much less efficient. If you charged to around 95%, you would probably get the same driving range, but be a bit kinder on the battery too. And as your regen is free energy, you will have saved energy by not unnecessarily topping up the final 5%.

 

[MrJaffro]

I also charged to full today, few weeks new M3LR 2021, came out as 330 miles. Trying to get used to not paying attention to mileage, and looking at percentage and weather conditions as the indicator. It's a new world!

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I would guess that most drivers have almost always used rough percentage fuel remaining as a range indicator for decades, so using the same display on an EV seems exactly the same as using a fuel gauge - after all, that's pretty much exactly what the percentage capacity remaining is, a fairly accurate fuel gauge.

All the cars I've owned in the past that have had some sort of range remaining display have been pretty hopelessly inaccurate, for exactly the same reasons as with an EV - the car has no way of knowing how it will be driven for the rest of the time before being recharged, nor does it know the weather conditions that will prevail at the time.

 

[SpareHeadOne]

I would guess that most drivers have almost always used rough percentage fuel remaining as a range indicator for decades, so using the same display on an EV seems exactly the same as using a fuel gauge - after all, that's pretty much exactly what the percentage capacity remaining is, a fairly accurate fuel gauge.

That's more or less how I've always done things, the trip computer gives me an idea of range, but I combine that mentally with where the fuel gauge is and the journey I'm doing - so on a long run I would use it to decide if I need to full up before I get to my destination.

I find the range figure more useful when the weather conditions are particularly bad for my drive (e.g. very strong headwind), so when I would normally know I have say 100 miles of fuel to do 40 miles, but my range drops 50 miles in 20 driven because of the conditions, then I might do a splash and dash just to be safe.

I kind of expect to drive the Tesla in a similar way, once I get used to the car these calculations will become second nature, so it's only going to be a small worry for the first couple of thousand miles I think.

 

[Adopado]

I kind of expect to drive the Tesla in a similar way, once I get used to the car these calculations will become second nature, so it's only going to be a small worry for the first couple of thousand miles I think.

There's a real-time energy graph you can call up onto the screen that shows how your doing ... and it gives a pretty good indication of how things are going if you have any worries. (This is different to an overall estimate of total range as it responds to the variables as you drive along.)

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

I have filled my one week old M3LR to 100% twice now for longer trips. It maxed out at a forecast range of 330 miles as you predicted; I too wondered why it doesn’t at least start from the claimed EPA max range; yes, we know it won’t actually do it in the real world. I was encouraged though that on my 140 mile trip outbound on Thursday, after losing 5 miles from the range predicted after about 15 miles travelled, I arrived with no more missing miles - still just 5 miles missing from the starting range, off the distance travelled. I did drive very gently though, including sitting in the slipstream of a few HGVs going my way... I’m fairly sure that could have got back without a top up, but chickened out and sipped an extra 30 miles at a supercharger just in case!

IMHO: On road trips always use the Navigator. It'll give to an expected arrival charge level which it dynamically updates, plus warnings to slow the f*** down if you are projected to arrive with less than 5%.

Note: The Navigator uses your recent driving patterns, so sometimes takes 20 or 30 miles to forecast an accurate arrival percentage.

 

[Drew57]

Yes as @Adopado mentions above, the energy graph is a useful indicator. During the past week & using its 'most recent' 30m average, I've seen on a 90% charge:

1. After driving Cheshire-Heathrow-Cheshire & two supercharger stops, 2-4º & rain with climate set at 20º + seat heater - range of 226m (extrapolate 251m @ 100%)
2. After overnight charge at home, local driving 30-50mph, 8-9º & dry, climate off + seat heater - range of 288m (extrapolate 320m @ 100%)

Same car a few days apart, 2020 Long Range.

 

[MrBadger]

I suspect at some point, as has happened in the past, Tesla will push out a software update to reflect this for newer models if the range you are seeing at 100% is not the EPA range. An example of this occurred for recent Model S,X and Y on 2020.28.x.

Showing in the 2020.48.12.1 release notes.

 

[Jibjab]

Showing in the 2020.48.12.1 release notes.
View attachment 618771

Thanks vanilla, getting closer then

From what I’ve read there seems to be two batteries that have been installed in the European LR. The existing Panasonic one and a new LG one. Seems the LG one is lower capacity, well lower usable capacity at the moment. With updates I think it will be very close to the existing Panasonic pack. At the moment the LG pack doesn’t seem to charge as fast either. One theory being that Tesla are beta testing on users I belibe they have down this before, release a new battery, monitor and analyse the data, once deemed safe push an update out to allow faster charging.

Incidentally it seems the performance version has an 83kwh (might be 82) battery.

On the face of it the LG battery doesn’t seem quite as ‘good’ (based on usable capacity and charge speed) as the Panasonic...but perhaps if the degradation is less and with software updates it might equal out and/or exceed the existing Panasonic. All TBC at the moment o believe.

Epic thread below for anyone (most) cleverer than me

2021 Model 3 - Charge data

 

[scs8]

Showing in the 2020.48.12.1 release notes.
View attachment 618771

My M3P (picked up yesterday) was updated last night. This morning 2020.48.12.1 was installed. If anyone wants any screenshots happy to provide.

 

[TheManofMead]

I always remember when refuelling my old ICE Audi S5. Fully fuelled the "miles remaining" often said around 320 miles.

After driving it for around 250 it was generally empty. 70 miles of phantom drain you might say.

Yet when people buy a battery car and the same thing happens they aren't happy. Baffling.

 

[Jibjab]

I always remember when refuelling my old ICE Audi S5. Fully fuelled the "miles remaining" often said around 320 miles.

After driving it for around 250 it was generally empty. 70 miles of phantom drain you might say.

Yet when people buy a battery car and the same thing happens they aren't happy. Baffling.

That’s not the question or concern that’s being posed. It’s the statement that the EPA rating (regardless of driving patterns or external factors) should be displayed when fully charged, it isn’t at the moment. Mine is epa rated at 353, it’s showing 331-336. No one is expecting to get that range I would imagine, but a fully charged battery should be showing it according to a Tesla.