-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
3 LR RWD - 325 mile Test
- Thread starter ratsbew
- Start date
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
All available evidence and common sense. They de-rated the EPA numbers of the LR RWD at release, and have decided they can bring them back up now after observing fleet data. There's zero evidence to suggest there's ever been a software lock or other artificial limit on the battery.
The simplest answer is usually the correct one.
fwiw, I think there's a relatively simple way to almost certainly determine if range has really been added, or, Tesla has just taken the range dial "from 10 to 11" so to speak.
The test is to determine if the watt hours per mile to hit Tesla's rated range has been changed or not with the update.
You easily can do (easily, as in, without worrying about varying conditions- wind, speed, temp, elevation etc.) this by taking your car for a run before and after doing the update as follows...
After you unplug, start driving, and just as your car's remaining miles drops to any next round mile... i.e. drops from 278 to 277, reset one of your trip counters to 0 miles. Then drive for a decent sample, something like 30 miles is plenty I think, with the goal of getting the amount of miles added to the trip counter to match the amount of miles taken off the remaining miles count. That is, drive somewhere that you can vary your speed to get these two counts to match up, so you're trip counter ticks up to say 30.0 miles, just as your remaining miles drops to show you've used 30 miles of range.
I've done this a number of times myself... it effectively tells you what the number of watt hours per mile it takes to hit the rated range of your car.
If this number is virtually the same before and after the update, any added range showing on your car is almost certainly real, unless Tesla really gamed something and is now varying the watt hours per mile to hit rated range depending on state of charge (or some other trickery I haven't thought of).
The test is to determine if the watt hours per mile to hit Tesla's rated range has been changed or not with the update.
You easily can do (easily, as in, without worrying about varying conditions- wind, speed, temp, elevation etc.) this by taking your car for a run before and after doing the update as follows...
After you unplug, start driving, and just as your car's remaining miles drops to any next round mile... i.e. drops from 278 to 277, reset one of your trip counters to 0 miles. Then drive for a decent sample, something like 30 miles is plenty I think, with the goal of getting the amount of miles added to the trip counter to match the amount of miles taken off the remaining miles count. That is, drive somewhere that you can vary your speed to get these two counts to match up, so you're trip counter ticks up to say 30.0 miles, just as your remaining miles drops to show you've used 30 miles of range.
I've done this a number of times myself... it effectively tells you what the number of watt hours per mile it takes to hit the rated range of your car.
If this number is virtually the same before and after the update, any added range showing on your car is almost certainly real, unless Tesla really gamed something and is now varying the watt hours per mile to hit rated range depending on state of charge (or some other trickery I haven't thought of).
I too believe in Occam's razor. It would have been very easy for Tesla to limit the RWD batteries to 72kWh and then release the AWD batteries at 75kWh. Now if they made them both equal, the RWD cars gain 15mi.
This appears to be what this reddit post claims, although it's from the energy page not the trip computer.
Evidence that Tesla "uncorked" the Model 3 LR RWD's battery to increase the range with 2019.5.15 : teslamotors
It seems like concluding this is already determined via "all available evidence and common sense" is myopic. I have yet to see anything convincing for any of the arguments, hence my question.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
If no additional battery capacity was unlocked and efficiencies were not increased, then you will start using more miles of range for the same commute.
If all the added range was due to unlocking extra battery capacity or increasing efficiency then the same commute will consume the same number of miles of range.
It's possible the truth is somewhere in the middle. Unlike some people who have written this off as a simple numerical recalibration, I'm keeping an open mind. Because I've seen a number of credible reports on different forums reporting numbers that indicate there are either increases in efficiency or more available battery power. Nothing is definitive until it's definitive.
I'm a firm believer in the concept that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. But the word "usually" is not inserted without good reason.
If all the added range was due to unlocking extra battery capacity or increasing efficiency then the same commute will consume the same number of miles of range.
It's possible the truth is somewhere in the middle. Unlike some people who have written this off as a simple numerical recalibration, I'm keeping an open mind. Because I've seen a number of credible reports on different forums reporting numbers that indicate there are either increases in efficiency or more available battery power. Nothing is definitive until it's definitive.
I'm a firm believer in the concept that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. But the word "usually" is not inserted without good reason.
Last edited:
My charging data pre- and post-update seem to support the exact numbers you are suggesting. I took an average of 15 or so charges before the update, and in those charges, about 7.2 kWh of energy was added for every 10% increase in SOC of the battery. This would equate to 72 kWh for 100% of the usable battery capacity.
After the update, my charges so far are showing about 7.5 kWh added for every 10% SOC, which would mean 75 kWh for 100%.
This data, both kWh charge energy added and SOC, was read from the vehicle itself via Tesla’s API and logged.
I also have data from the ChargePoint metered EVSE I used, and the kWh added as reported by ChargePoint does correlate with the kWh data reported by the vehicle through the API.
It is a fairly easy experiment to perform, and I would love to see how results from others compare.
Nice! That's some good hard data! I noticed via TeslaFi that my miles per hour of charging hasn't changed which also tells me that there might be actual capacity gained. I'm looking forward to my Saturday test. I'll probably take it easy at 55mph and try to get an actual 325 miles even with the cool temperatures.
Well common sense isn't always so common, and it can be wrong, which is why people like to actually do scientific tests to prove out reality.
Write down the Wh/mile also. That with your traveled miles will give a more granular value of energy used than the rounded kWh value.
ord3r
Member
Verygreen tore open the firmware and confirmed they just changed the wh per mile variable. They must have forgot to update in the energy app.
Tesla increases Model 3 range through software update. : RealTesla
Tesla increases Model 3 range through software update. : RealTesla
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
ConcordeSST
Member
The link is referencing the comment by greentheonly on that post, not the Electrek article. That is a user known for digging deep into Tesla's firmware updates and is also the user that often posts detailed videos on what autopilot sees.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I understand that. My point is simply that he didn't actually say that he reverse engineered the firmware to the degree necessary to confirm his suspicions.
In otherwords, at this point it's still not hard evidence, just people posting opinions. I'm going to keep an open mind until I see evidence one way or the other.
Actually, the little evidence we have so far, does point to some amount of actual increase in range.
ord3r
Member
This is why technical folks like wk507 and verygreen get frustrated and quit this forum. Don’t project your lack of technical understanding onto others, verygreen has a good enough grasp on the Tesla software stack to make this conclusion. This isn’t a PhD thesis he’s working on don’t expect a formal writeup. That variable change is pretty hard evidence. The only contrary ‘evidence’ in this thread is pretty much just magical thinking
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I didn't say he doesn't have enough expertise to make a valid scientific conclusion. I'm simply saying that the link you provided does not have him claiming that.
I agree the evidence we have (either way) is very soft evidence. Which is why I'm not willing to come to a hard conclusion yet. Your link does not contain any claim that he identified a changed variable that proves his opinion.
Bobbo8
Member
I just looked at my TeslaFi records and it looks confirmed that we have an actual kWh bump on the car from 73 to 77kWh!!
I took my daily charge records and divided the "kWh added" value by how many percent was gained. Previous to the 2019.5.15 update the math consistently comes out to ~73kWh for 100% and now after the update it's ~77kWh. The difference is consistent and too large to be a fluke. I was only getting +/-.5 kWh based on the rounding error of using whole percents when doing the math.
Based on this, I think I can confirm that we gained about 3.5kWh of usable capacity which is right in line with +15 miles of rated range.
I will still plan on doing my road test to see what the car shows on the trip.
Please see this post: Model 3 LR usable battery capacity? for a test that I ran in August of 2018. My math then came out to 73kWh usable which exactly matches my TeslaFi math from before the update.
I took my daily charge records and divided the "kWh added" value by how many percent was gained. Previous to the 2019.5.15 update the math consistently comes out to ~73kWh for 100% and now after the update it's ~77kWh. The difference is consistent and too large to be a fluke. I was only getting +/-.5 kWh based on the rounding error of using whole percents when doing the math.
Based on this, I think I can confirm that we gained about 3.5kWh of usable capacity which is right in line with +15 miles of rated range.
I will still plan on doing my road test to see what the car shows on the trip.
Please see this post: Model 3 LR usable battery capacity? for a test that I ran in August of 2018. My math then came out to 73kWh usable which exactly matches my TeslaFi math from before the update.
Last edited:
From TeslaFi:
I believe that the gain is entirely at the bottom of the pack since I gained 13 miles of range after the update without charging.
- 3/14/2019: 16.14 kWh added, 21 percent gained - 76.85 kWh
- 3/12/2019: 17.75 kWh added, 23 percent gained - 77.17 kWh
- 3/11/2019: 20.70 kWh added, 27 percent gained - 76.66 kWh
- 3/09/2019: 20.5 kWh added, 28 percent gained: - 73.21 kWh - last day with old firmware
- 3/08/2019: 35.1 kWh adedd, 48 percent gained: - 73.12 kWh
- 3/04/2019: 24.2 kWh added, 33 percent gained - 73.33 kWh
I believe that the gain is entirely at the bottom of the pack since I gained 13 miles of range after the update without charging.
Mine was built June 19th, delivered July. After getting 5.15 I charged to 100%...no range difference- 309. This weekend will charge back up (takes a few days for me to run battery down, lol) to see if I get 325. I’m in Texas and drive in a manner where I typically actually get rated mileage range.
Similar threads
