3rd Party HEPA Filter

[vandacca]

Three. The big one is hospital grade HEPA. The other two are both activated carbon - one set up to grab acidic, the other to grab basic.

I have read discussion (speculation?) that the other two are packaged as a single unit, with one filter on one side of the carrier media and the other on the opposite side of the same carrier.

Do you have a source for the belief that all Xs have the same carbon filters?

I would have expected that filters optimized for BDM would choke up with dust very quickly without the HEPA in front, while filters designed not to have that would be inefficient in a Bioweapon car.

I guess there could be two carbon-activated filters (acidic & basic) glued together, but if they're glued together, I'd would consider that as one filter.

Anyway, 2 years ago at the Sept 2015 reveal, Elon referred to the big bioweapons filter as the primary filter and the smaller "carbon" filter as the secondary filter. He never mentions a 3rd filter. He did mention that the carbon filter has 3 layers:

• Universal Absorbent (Hydrocarbons)
• Acidic Gases (Sulfur)
• Alkaline Gases (Ammonia)

He did say that the secondary filter is larger than the filter in most cars. We know that the primary filter is only available with PUP, so I just assumed that the X would come with at least 1 filter, and that would mean the 3-layer carbon filter.

I have no idea where the 3-layer carbon filter is located, but judging by it's shape (it's curved on one corner), I would guess it would be butted up next to a body panel.

The filter discussion start at 8:28...can't seem to get TMC to save the correct link with timestamp.

 

[boaterva]

My understanding is that the charcoal filters are standard. The wording on the website for the cars is horrible and makes you think that standard cars without BDM get raw air and BDM is all the cool stuff. It looks like all it really adds is the HEPA filter and the software from many months of reading many threads. BDM software appears to be just a shortcut for high fan external air to pressurize the car through the filter (to keep biohazards out).

One reason they stopped selling BDM separate, it was cutting down on PUP sales!

 

[Peteski]

Website description clearly states 2 activated carbon filters and 1 HEPA air filter in the PUP description. Even lists HEPA and carbon filters as 2 separate features of PUP. What isn't clear is what the standard spec actually is, but surely it doesn't have the carbon filters if they are listed as a specific PUP upgrade feature? I expect it simply has a standard air filter wherever the carbon filters are located. That would then make sense.

 

[GWord]

3rd party, legacy Tesla S charcoal filter on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Topfit-Filter-Activated-Carbon-2012-2015/dp/B01HPWE6PA

I wonder if the cars have been coming with a charcoal cabin filter from day 1?

 

[Brandon332]

According to Tesla's service checklist, they change the HEPA filter for you at the annual service appointment on I believe the 3rd year. And that's included in the price of the annual service so buying a new one on eBay on our own doesn't seem worth it, unless you're a non-PUP wanting to add the HEPA filter.

 

[Peteski]

3rd party, legacy Tesla S charcoal filter on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Topfit-Filter-Activated-Carbon-2012-2015/dp/B01HPWE6PA

I wonder if the cars have been coming with a charcoal cabin filter from day 1?

Why would they if the carbon filters are specifically listed as part of the PUP upgrade? That would amount to fraud I would have thought i.e. advertising an upgrade that was actually standard fitment anyway. I suspect the reality is that they just throw in a cheap standard filter unless you pay for the upgrade.

 

[Saghost]

3rd party, legacy Tesla S charcoal filter on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Topfit-Filter-Activated-Carbon-2012-2015/dp/B01HPWE6PA

I wonder if the cars have been coming with a charcoal cabin filter from day 1?

Not all "carbon filters " are the same. There's absolutely nothing in that advertisement to suggest it has multiple layers like the two or three Bioweapon filters.

 

[GWord]

Not all "carbon filters " are the same. There's absolutely nothing in that advertisement to suggest it has multiple layers like the two or three Bioweapon filters.

If you read my post carefully you will notice that I make no claims or commentary about the product other than it exists.

 

[Saghost]

If you read my post carefully you will notice that I make no claims or commentary about the product other than it exists.

Granted. In the context, I felt it was important to clarify since prior posts had been suggesting that the only filter added by BWDM was the HEPA and that every car had the same secondary filter from the factory, which I do not believe to be the case.

 

[boaterva]

BWDM is the software. There is nothing that says the charcoal filters aren’t standard on non-PUPs also. It says that they come with the PUP. Yes, because they are in the car.

Even the linked blog post described ‘turning BWDM on’ which is just full speed fan, external air, to pressurize the cabin and clean the air. All is true. It’s just not 100% clear or exclusive to the PUP package that includes the added HEPA filter and the software.

This is more ‘unclarity’ like the 40 Amp charger for the Model 3 LR version which everything ‘understood’ from the Press Kit language (which was later confirmed to be 48 or the heated front seats standard on the 3.

Now, what actual particle ‘filter’ (without the HEPA) is present, that isn’t clear. I assume there is a smaller filter in non-PUP, but we’d need a non-PUP owner to pull the frunk panel and see what’s in place of the HEPA (and perhaps put this to bed and verify that the charcoals are there also!).

 

[boaterva]

Okay, this thread from a while back may put this to bed..... happy to hear if anyone has newer data!

If you look down a bit, it describes, among other things, that after-sales option for BWDM that Tesla had for a few seconds (since it killed sales of PUP...).

It says categorically that all they did was install the HEPA filter, and software-enable BWDM. No install of charcoal filters for non-PUPs, which is why it took only a few minutes to install.

This is where I think I recalled this whole thing from earlier this year, and that the charcoals are standard even though it’s never stated.


HEPA Air filter for everyone...

 

[Peteski]

I don't think that puts anything to bed. Okay, so this is exactly what the PUP upgrade states on the website today:-

1. Prevent viruses and bacteria from entering the cabin with a medical grade HEPA air filtration system (includes BWDM)
2. Block offensive odors, nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbon exhaust fumes from polluting cabin air with two activated carbon purification filters

So the above PUP upgrades are listed as 2 separate items i.e. HEPA filter + BWDM as one item and 2 carbon filters as a second item. If the latter carbon filters are in fact standard fitment on theses cars, then the website is totally misleading in stating them as a PUP upgrade feature. You don't state standard items when specifically describing features of an upgrade package!

Now there could well have been an historic option to carry out the first upgrade i.e. HEPA filter + BWDM alone without adding the special carbon filters. So that doesn't prove it either way. Maybe the carbon filters are fitted as standard (in which case the website is fraudulent in specifically advertising them as an upgrade) or a lower spec of filter is fitted as standard and the PUP ones are an upgraded spec. I hope the latter is true, otherwise many of us have been totally misled over this.

As mentioned above, someone needs to confirm this by taking a look at all the filters (not just the HEPA filter) on both standard and PUP cars.

 

[boaterva]

I agree it won’t be settled until we have a non-PUP car with the frunk panel removed to see if the charcoal filters are there. But I submit that the text in the PUP description only says what PUP cars have, not what only PUP cars have. And the short-lived HEPA add-on accessory had to bring you to parity to the HEPA/BDWM included with PUP, or it really would have been a difference.

From an assembly streamlining point of view, also, this makes the most sense. The charcoal filter assemblies are harder to add, and we’ve seen how easy the HEPA is to do. Slide in the filter, and program the BDWM, which isn’t even needed for DIY: full fan, external air, done!

 

[Peteski]

But I submit that the text in the PUP description only says what PUP cars have, not what only PUP cars have.

Using that logic you could say exactly the same for all the other PUP upgrades stated on the website. I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense to me. The PUP upgrade package lists what the upgrades are supposed to be. It would be total nonsense for Tesla to list standard car features as part of the PUP. It's not even as if the carbon filters are mentioned as part of the HEPA upgrade, they are considered by Tesla as an upgrade in their own right. So we are talking about 2 separate upgrades here. If Tesla really are fitting these very same carbon filters to all cars, then that is most definitely a rip-off.

 

[HappyHappy]

Now, what actual particle ‘filter’ (without the HEPA) is present, that isn’t clear. I assume there is a smaller filter in non-PUP, but we’d need a non-PUP owner to pull the frunk panel and see what’s in place of the HEPA (and perhaps put this to bed and verify that the charcoals are there also!).

In a non PUP car, the space where the HEPA filter goes is completely empty. You can see photos in this thread:

Frunk tub removal

Now in saying that, I have no idea where the carbon filters are or what they look like. No idea if they're missing or simply hidden somewhere else. Next time someone is at a service center, ask a tech!

 

[boaterva]

In a non PUP car, the space where the HEPA filter goes is completely empty. You can see photos in this thread:

Frunk tub removal

Now in saying that, I have no idea where the carbon filters are or what they look like. No idea if they're missing or simply hidden somewhere else. Next time someone is at a service center, ask a tech!

Yep, we know about the HEPA, as people have purchased it and put it in. What the other (normal filter (whatever that means)) and charcoal, we need inspection to determine. I still bet for ease of production, everyone has the charcoals.

 

[Saghost]

Yep, we know about the HEPA, as people have purchased it and put it in. What the other (normal filter (whatever that means)) and charcoal, we need inspection to determine. I still bet for ease of production, everyone has the charcoals.

After going to the trouble of using a massive, low velocity HEPA filter with all the space that takes, I can't imagine that Tesla would settle for the performance compromise required by that decision.

(Remember, they could easily have made a much smaller HEPA filter - it just would have meant more pressure drop/ higher fan speeds for the same airflow and required changing more often. They spent the money, weight, and volume to do it better than any other car instead.)

Carbon filters optimized for life behind the HEPA filter would choke up with dust quickly without it - carbon filter designed for life without the HEPA will be no where near as efficient at handling the gasses (on a per unit area/thickness basis.)

Which is why my bet is that while the non PUP cars likely have a filter element in that space with some activated carbon, it won't be the same part that's in the BWDM cars.

 

[boaterva]

After going to the trouble of using a massive, low velocity HEPA filter with all the space that takes, I can't imagine that Tesla would settle for the performance compromise required by that decision.

(Remember, they could easily have made a much smaller HEPA filter - it just would have meant more pressure drop/ higher fan speeds for the same airflow and required changing more often. They spent the money, weight, and volume to do it better than any other car instead.)

Carbon filters optimized for life behind the HEPA filter would choke up with dust quickly without it - carbon filter designed for life without the HEPA will be no where near as efficient at handling the gasses (on a per unit area/thickness basis.)

Which is why my bet is that while the non PUP cars likely have a filter element in that space with some activated carbon, it won't be the same part that's in the BWDM cars.

We definitely need to see.. they sold the 'drop in the filter' as being the full HEPA BWDM add-on, also, so, something is missing....

 

[Peteski]

We definitely need to see.. they sold the 'drop in the filter' as being the full HEPA BWDM add-on, also, so, something is missing....

But don't you see that Tesla list the active carbon filters as a different and separate upgrade item?

My money is on a cheaper paper filter in place of the double carbon upgrade item. It's like that with many vacuum cleaners too. My Miele has at least 3 different filter options with various pricing to match. They all fit in the same slot, but the all singing and dancing pet odor filter is about 10x the price of the paper one.

 

[boaterva]

But don't you see that Tesla list the active carbon filters as a different and separate upgrade item?

My money is on a cheaper paper filter in place of the double carbon upgrade item. It's like that with many vacuum cleaners too. My Miele has at least 3 different filter options with various pricing to match. They all fit in the same slot, but the all singing and dancing pet odor filter is about 10x the price of the paper one.

Nope. Where? In the PUP? As I’ve said, just because it’s mentioned as being in those cars, doesn’t mean it’s ONLY in those cars.

Again, if the separate BWDM option was only adding the HEPA filter, how would/could that be equivalent to the BWDM in the PUP then?

We’re never going to answer this without a non-PUP owner looking to see if they have the charcoal canisters. No point in going around and around more.