We have it from @wk057 that the rated range calculation is simply pack capcity divided by a constant. For my pack that constant is ~302 Wh/mi
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We have it from @wk057 that the rated range calculation is simply pack capcity divided by a constant. For my pack that constant is ~302 Wh/mi
The definition of rated range is the range on the EPA test cycle. Period. Full stop. The rated range that is displayed may vary at times because it's not possible to calculate the state of charge of the battery exactly, but that doesn't change the actual rated range. If anyone has written documentation from an authoritative source that says otherwise, please share it. What someone heard from someone doesn't qualify.
Thanks, @msnow for further explanation.
BTW I didn't include units so my post wasn't clear enough. I wanted to mention the RR constant is different from models and vintage:
"after D models are introduced RR constant number seems to be too lower, 273Wh/mile. Previously Classic cars had 300Wh/mile. And European/Japanese Classic as 320Wh/mile, so my Classic had only 246 miles RR at delivery, @320Wh/mile, so equivalent to 262 miles of RR. It seems Euro/Japanese D models have something like 290Wh/mile, even though PD models consume more energy than Classic RWD models, so it is harder with PD models to reach RR than with Classic RWDs.
Boatguy
Active Member
I think the Tesla personnel confused Estimated Range with Projected Range. And I agree that a Tesla white paper would be useful. I think I've basically reverse engineered what's happening with RM vs Projected Miles.
The displayed RM is battery capacity available for driving divided by a constant. In the case of the S90D, that constant is 273 Wh/RM.
Projected Miles is an adjustment to RM based on driving style/conditions for the last 5/15/30 miles (or the appropriate km). However, for reasons known only to Tesla, on my S90D the constant used is 290Wh/mi. So for example if your consumption over the last 30 miles was 310 Wh/mi, then Projected miles will be 290/310 = 6.5% less than RM. It's an essentially useless number since it doesn't use the same 273 Wh/mi as is used to calculate the displayed RM.
Ideal Range is some marketing fantasy land that I believe is of no use to an owner.
Seasonally could affect RM by changing available battery capacity. Cold weather does reduce available battery capacity and I see this in my i3 each year, so I would not be surprised to see Tesla RM reduced in winter, but obviously a function of how cold it is where you live. Worse in Finland than Santa Monica!
Mike Tuccelli
Member
FYI. 10,500 miles .... Stopped charging to 90% at 5,000 miles, charging to 80% and get 282 mile range projection. Steady at 282 for the past 6 months. I'm happy.
Boatguy
Active Member
Just to clarify, you get 282 rated miles @ 80% charge? That translates to 352 RM at 100%. I think that's a record and certainly a good reason to be happy!
I think he means he "projects" 282 RM at 100% which is about normal for a 2015 90D. It also means 253 at 90% and 225 at 80%.
Boatguy
Active Member
In Europe the names are different. We have rated range, which presents the highest range number. Then we have typical, which is close to the EPA rating (this is called Ideal in the US i think?
Rated and typical are the ranges projected on the dash behind the steeringwheel if you choose range as indicator for SOC.
Rated and typical (ideal) are based on fixed consumptions. They might be adjusted through sw-updates, but not dynamically.
I.e. I get about the same numbers when driving like a madman for a period in winter (-10 degrees celcius) as I do in periods with very sparse consumption in 25+ celcius. If the numbers were in any way affected by the driver, they would vary greatly.
However - the Energy app on the big screen projects range based on real consumption. You can switch between 10/25/50km average and instant/average consumption to project range. In addition, the trip planner gives quite good estimates for remaining SOC at destination.
So there`s no doubt the car can show range based on your driving habbits. And range based on model (60D has different consumption as base for the rated/ideal (typical) than a P90D). But the numbers are not dynamical. I`ve driven 2 Model S` for three years, following Tesla and forums closely since 2012......
And then - topic:
When I received the car brand new in March it showed 574/459 (rated/ideal) km.After about 7500km/4 months it showed 455tkm (deal). So less than 1% drop first 4 months/7500km.
In conclusion - my 90D does not suffer from the initial serious drop in range.
All you have to do to balance the battery is to drive it down to under 10-20% then do a full 100% charge which triggers the process. You should pick up some more *displayed* Rated Range by doing that. I do this periodically every couple of months or if there's a firmware update that impacts the algorithm such as a BMS module update. I think my 80% is 224 or 225 so you're probably fine, you just need to recalibrate the algorithm like I said.
Agree, I know they have different terminology in Europe than we do for EPA Rated Range but I think he's confusing the different metrics of rated, estimated and ideal range.
Euro and Japanese cars:
Typical = a bit higher than US rated, for older cars 320Wh/m, newer cars 290Wh/m
Rated = very similar to US Ideal, possibly NEDC at 250Wh/m
I've had my MS 90 2016 classic for 2 1/2 months. It was an inventory car with 3k+ miles and the rated range was 294 when I took possession.
Just around a month in to my ownership, the rated max dropped to 290.
At just around the second month in, it dropped again to 286. I've lost about 8 miles of rated range so far.
The car now has just over 10k miles. I've range charged about 6 times as the car has been on numerous road trips (hence 7k miles driven in 10 weeks.). My lifetime avg is 318 wh/mi and on highways I tend to average 280wh/mi.
I'm not sure if this is what others had seen in their 90Ds but it is slightly disconcerting. It is not impacting my enjoyment or functionality of the car in any way so far.
Just around a month in to my ownership, the rated max dropped to 290.
At just around the second month in, it dropped again to 286. I've lost about 8 miles of rated range so far.
The car now has just over 10k miles. I've range charged about 6 times as the car has been on numerous road trips (hence 7k miles driven in 10 weeks.). My lifetime avg is 318 wh/mi and on highways I tend to average 280wh/mi.
I'm not sure if this is what others had seen in their 90Ds but it is slightly disconcerting. It is not impacting my enjoyment or functionality of the car in any way so far.
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ArtInCT
Always Learning
I have seen my P90D rated range go down here is the data...
90% figures
241 when new on 3/3/16 range mode on
242 5/3/16 range mode on
241 6/3/16 range mode on
236 7/3/16 range mode off
236 8/3/16 range mode off
236 9/3/16 range mode off
234 9/25/15 range mode off
on my car each percentage of charge has about a 3 mile range....
for instance, if I am at 91% charge and watch the console closely when it just goes from 91 to 90,
I can then flip to miles and see 236, then 235, then 234 with all being 90%.
I have set up two driver profiles in my car, one called ARTPCT and the other ARTMILES
With the setting of percent or miles captured with each.
These make it VERY EASY to flip from % to miles and back again.... try it.
So I am just saying that a given 90% charge is somewhat wide in rated miles.
Also in the colder months here in New England I run with Range Mode ON. You will notice that when I
turned Range Mode Off in June that the rated miles began to drop. I just wonder and speculate that perhaps
Range Mode Off somehow tempers the rated miles to account for more aggressive battery cooling/heating and
HVAC. We shall see as I will be turning Range Mode ON again very soon.
I hope this data helps you all.
90% figures
241 when new on 3/3/16 range mode on
242 5/3/16 range mode on
241 6/3/16 range mode on
236 7/3/16 range mode off
236 8/3/16 range mode off
236 9/3/16 range mode off
234 9/25/15 range mode off
on my car each percentage of charge has about a 3 mile range....
for instance, if I am at 91% charge and watch the console closely when it just goes from 91 to 90,
I can then flip to miles and see 236, then 235, then 234 with all being 90%.
I have set up two driver profiles in my car, one called ARTPCT and the other ARTMILES
With the setting of percent or miles captured with each.
These make it VERY EASY to flip from % to miles and back again.... try it.
So I am just saying that a given 90% charge is somewhat wide in rated miles.
Also in the colder months here in New England I run with Range Mode ON. You will notice that when I
turned Range Mode Off in June that the rated miles began to drop. I just wonder and speculate that perhaps
Range Mode Off somehow tempers the rated miles to account for more aggressive battery cooling/heating and
HVAC. We shall see as I will be turning Range Mode ON again very soon.
I hope this data helps you all.
This tells me that your 100% would project to be about 261 Rated Miles. That would be 2.61 miles for every 1% of energy displayed on your dash. In my tests Range Mode only adds .36 miles looking at it on Remote S while toggling between Range Mode On/Off. By the way Remote S shows both miles and energy percentage which might be easier than having to swap driver profiles or changing the setting in Units and Measurements to view it while driving. Based on this the number of miles in any given energy percentage displayed can very as much as 2.61 miles for you and 2.81 miles for me (Range Mode off). Depending on any given firmware version Tesla usually stops charging around the middle of that number. Some versions are slightly higher or lower. That's why you will generally see a higher Miles number if you toggle to Percentage while driving because you are going in the reverse direction of charge which means (depending on how quick you are to toggle) you are seeing the higher end of your 2.61 variance.
This is very informative. Thanks. I generally drive with range mode on unless I know I'm very close to a SC or home, then I drive with range mode off. Also, if it's a very hot and sunny day (above 90 degrees) I'll drive with range mode off so as to have a more comfortable cabin. I noticed in my 24 hours with v8.0, the HVAC is much better at regulating solar intensity even with range mode on so I may drive with that more often.
I am also in New England, my garage is detached, and it dropped to 40 degrees last night and was only 55 degrees this morning driving around. I noticed my 90% this morning was only 255 this morning; it was 264 when I acquired the car back in July.
I haven't looked at ideal mileage at all during my calculations. I expect that this has not changed much.
Looks like I have something similar, but my serial number seems to indicate it is newer. Weird that I have yet to see anything above 260 miles at 90%. But i have yet to do a 100% charge. I hope I have the newer battery that can do the 294 EPA. Sure 8 miles is not much, but I also hear the supercharging is slower on the old 90D pack.
Thanks for the picture.
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