980 vs 990 motor settled

[ZOMGVTEK]

Most likely, what that box is doing is 'tricking' the car into thinking its a performance variant. This likely inst possible with the 990 motor since its not a supported config. So it's very possible they really have no clue if the 990 is different, they just know it won't work.

It's possible they 'hacked' the car and have total control over power output. I'd put this at unlikely at this time. It sure looks like they're just tricking the car into being a AWD+ and P versions.

 

[M109Rider]

Most likely, what that box is doing is 'tricking' the car into thinking its a performance variant. This likely inst possible with the 990 motor since its not a supported config. So it's very possible they really have no clue if the 990 is different, they just know it won't work.

It's possible they 'hacked' the car and have total control over power output. I'd put this at unlikely at this time. It sure looks like they're just tricking the car into being a AWD+ and P versions.

So what would be the reason, or your theory on why the 990 wouldn’t work....?

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

So what would be the reason, or your theory on why the 990 wouldn’t work....?

Tesla has never offered a performance variant of the Model 3 equipped with a 990 rear motor. Most likely, the hardware identifiers they use would have a different string on the 990 vs the 980, or call out the motor part number directly. Most likely telling the car its a performance model is much easier than creating a custom config. I'd assume if you said its a performance model with the 990 rear motor, either the car wont move at all, the rear motor will be disabled, or the rear motor power electronics will fail. But of course this all depends on how Tesla coded this in the software and if hardware differences exist. All signs indicate its a pretty simple ordeal to tell the car 'dude paid for performance, so send it'. Whereas nobody has yet appeared to been able to have complete control over the drive units and been able to just turn the power limits up. This might be possible the old fashioned way by just screwing with the current sensing to 'lie' about incoming and outgoing power. Nobody appears to have been brave enough to try that just yet. Best guess is the performance model is running the max sensible power that's reliably achievable at current production. It's also possible they made hardware changes that make current production more capable than older models, but they're waiting a bit before doing anything about it. Not to say it can't handle more power, I have no doubt it can. The question is how close to the edge are they running it now, and how much overhead do you want to have in a mass produced vehicle?

 

[Dolemite]

In any case, I'm good. I stopped chasing yellow lights after blowing through a couple of intersections @ 80+. I'd much rather them figure out how to make power more consistent across SOC than just having more raw power.

 

[T3SLAROD]

So if my April 2018 build LR RWD has the good 980 motor, then why doesn't Tesla offer me a boost pack for it?

And all the motors should have been made the same, barring improvements that come over time. Having 2 motors in the parts bins is extra inventory, extra cost, and less efficiency.

Elon doesn’t give a crap about the LR RWD crowd..... bunch of has beens

 

[Sam1]

In any case, I'm good. I stopped chasing yellow lights after blowing through a couple of intersections @ 80+. I'd much rather them figure out how to make power more consistent across SOC than just having more raw power.

For that you would need an unbinned, 980.5 motor. I know a guy that knows a guy that has insider info on these things, so you can bet it's legit!

 

[TwoK4drSi]

You rang?


And of course there continues to be no evidence for (and a good bit against) the idea they "binned" anything on the 980 other than a vague Elon tweet from before they ever built any Ps, and a couple people "sure" they did it with no hard evidence.


Meanwhile folks got as-delivered LR AWDs flashed to Ps at the delivery center (because Tesla delivered a LR AWD but they ordered a P) without anyone caring about some sooper-sekrit hidden BINNING designation.... and if you check the parts catalog there's only 1 version of the 980 in there- it's buyable over the counter, and they don't require your VIN to see if you need the SPECIAL MAGIC BINNED version nobody can show exists.

I also love the fact that tesla couldn’t even keep up with production In 2018-2019 despite ONLY 2 interior color choices and a handful of exterior choices let alone trying to keep track of “special” burned in motors versus normal motor rocking the same part number. Seriously mind numbing.

 

[SammichLover]

I also love the fact that tesla couldn’t even keep up with production In 2018-2019 despite ONLY 2 interior color choices and a handful of exterior choices let alone trying to keep track of “special” burned in motors versus normal motor rocking the same part number. Seriously mind numbing.

Not a big deal “keeping track” of DU you’re individually walking over on a trolly from benching/burn-in to the car frame you’re about to drop it into.

The line had regressed to somewhere near bespoke in a tent for the P.

When your process is in the range of an adhoc assembly only a few weeks behind R&D engineering of the vehicle design that juxtaposition makes a lot of sense.

 

[Dolemite]

For that you would need an unbinned, 980.5 motor. I know a guy that knows a guy that has insider info on these things, so you can bet it's legit!

The customer chat line rep making $12/hr told me it’s true! I have insider info to share guys!

 

[1.21GW]

It is most likely that Tesla removed some of the Silicon Carbide MOSFETs in the 990 inverters. SiC is expensive and if its not needed, it is a very easy cost out.

However, that means that the inverters will never be capable of putting out the peak power of the 980’s.

For a little more nerding you can read this Charged EVs | Here’s why Tesla transitioned to a semi-custom power module design in Model 3 inverter

The 980 motors have 24 ST Micro SiC modules, which when divided by the 6 switches leaves 4 in parallel (this is well known in the industry through many teardwons) My assumption is that the 990s have 18 ST Micro SiC modules which means 3 in parallel. (I have yet to see a teardown of the 990s)

 

[MagnusMako]

It is most likely that Tesla removed some of the Silicon Carbide MOSFETs in the 990 inverters. SiC is expensive and if its not needed, it is a very easy cost out.

However, that means that the inverters will never be capable of putting out the peak power of the 980’s.

I feel like that's pretty apparent as well when you look at the way they are listed in parts catalog. It goes "3DU-Rear 800 MOSFET", and then "3DU-REAR 630 MOSFET". This should be a pretty clear indication that the mosfet's are the main factor in the current that can be pushed, and thus maximum power, and thus what's primarily different between them. It also makes sense to me that it saves enough money that it's worth it to have the two types of motors on the line. Tesla removes things that I'm sure cost way less from interior creature comforts so this move seems pretty logical. It also came around a time when Tesla was doing a lot of their hardcore cost cutting since Q1 2019 was pretty rough for sales numbers after the $7500 credit fell off, despite numerous price cuts.

 

[1.21GW]

Makes sense. It is likely 800 Amp vs. 630 Amp MOSFET ratings.

So that means that 990 with acceleration boost is maxed out and 980 is capable of Performance numbers. It is unlikely that Tesla will ever offer an upgrade for the AWD 980 motor crowd to get to full Performance version.

 

[Dolemite]

It is unlikely that Tesla will ever offer an upgrade for the AWD 980 motor crowd to get to full Performance version.

y?

 

[1.21GW]

y?

Because many people purchased the AWD version and Tesla randomly made the switch between 980 and 990 at no fault of the person who purchased it.

The only way I could see them doing it is similar to FSD. If you purchase the performance upgrade then you will get the upgraded motor included (if you don’t already have it). However, there are now more AWD cars out there with 990 motors, so either Tesla would need to charge an exorbitant amount for the upgrade, or not offer it at all.

 

[SammichLover]

However, there are now more AWD cars out there with 990 motors, so either Tesla would need to charge an exorbitant amount for the upgrade, or not offer it at all.

That I don't follow on. They can't mine as much cash flow out, it is inherently limited by AWD sales made from the beginning until somewhere in the first half of 2019.

I'm running off vague recollection, I'm not a Model S archivist, but I think stuff like this has happened with the Model S where they had a unlock option available but only for certain vehicles that happened to have correctly matching hardware. And providing a happy bonus after-the-fact reward to earlier adopters is historically very much a thing for Tesla.

A great deal offered in exchange for the moment cash flow purposes. That's how I ended up with FSD for only $2,000 on top of EAP, after all.

Sure it very well might not happen but it wouldn't be particularly ahistorical or out of character for Tesla.

 

[qdeathstar]

I would think the “Hack” is designed to work around what the car normally wants to do.
If they can Hack the 980 and trick/program it to be a “P”, why couldn’t they also Hack the 990 and trick/program it to be a “P” ?
I suspect they could...

What makes more sense,;

“A”. they can figure out how to hack the 980, but just can’t quite figure out how to hack the 990?
Or
“B”. They don’t hack the 990 because it can’t handle it ?

My logic says option “B”...

Do you think they care if your cars motor can handle it??

 

[MagnusMako]

I'm running off vague recollection, I'm not a Model S archivist, but I think stuff like this has happened with the Model S where they had a unlock option available but only for certain vehicles that happened to have correctly matching hardware. And providing a happy bonus after-the-fact reward to earlier adopters is historically very much a thing for Tesla.

Our resident historian might be here shortly but that particular uncork for Model S was for newer versions, so it'd basically be the other way around - where they rewarded 990 motors instead of 980's.

I'm sure there would be a few disgruntled customers if Tesla offered an unlock for us 980's, but I don't personally think it would have any significant impact on PR or otherwise. I know there are people who disagree with that, but I stand by it. Tesla has done plenty to aggravate people in many other ways. Most people probably don't even know anything close to this kind of thing could possibly exist, and I'm sure the general population of buyers are happy with their AWD cars just how it is. I see a lot of Fb posts from people how it has more power than they'll ever need. And it's not even the fast one.

 

[timk225]

Elon doesn’t give a crap about the LR RWD crowd..... bunch of has beens

Well, Elon should care about the early RWD owners. After all, I was forced into paying an additional $14,000 for my 3 because the LR was the only configuration available in spring 2018 when I ordered my car.

 

[1.21GW]

Well, Elon should care about the early RWD owners. After all, I was forced into paying an additional $14,000 for my 3 because the LR was the only configuration available in spring 2018 when I ordered my car.

Your motor is likely maxed out. Unless you get an additional front motor, there isn’t much Tesla could do for you. Your hardware has reached its limit.

I’m sure they could squeeze a bit more out of it, but that would likely increase failure rates beyond what they could accept. They are on the hook for warranty.

 

[M109Rider]

Well, Elon should care about the early RWD owners. After all, I was forced into paying an additional $14,000 for my 3 because the LR was the only configuration available in spring 2018 when I ordered my car.

Amazing. ...
You two have convinced each other, and found company together, to feed your need to believe and willow in the belief that Elon doesn’t care.
All in one thread.
Hats off fella’s.