A yoke or a joke?

[roblab]

Nearly everything new meets resistance. When the automobile first came out it used a lever on the floor for steering, and everyone complained when they changed it to a wheel.

Not saying the yoke is good or bad, because it isn't. It's just different, and many many people have difficulty changing, needing things to always be the way they were "back when". My take is that I will learn to use it and it will become normal to me. A lot of things have changed since I was a kid. Corded phones come to mind, and this computer on my desk. I had to practice my keyboarding, and I'd never used a "mouse". Now it's just natural. I figure the yoke will also become second nature.

 

[2101Guy]

Nearly everything new meets resistance. When the automobile first came out it used a lever on the floor for steering, and everyone complained when they changed it to a wheel.

Not saying the yoke is good or bad, because it isn't. It's just different, and many many people have difficulty changing, needing things to always be the way they were "back when". My take is that I will learn to use it and it will become normal to me. A lot of things have changed since I was a kid. Corded phones come to mind, and this computer on my desk. I had to practice my keyboarding, and I'd never used a "mouse". Now it's just natural. I figure the yoke will also become second nature.

good points, but in every non-yoke example you listed, there were very clear problems that were solved by the solutions you mentioned...

 

[Sbaimo]

My personal opinion is that this yoke will not do a 365 degree turn. It may be limited to how a toy car works where about 45 degrees either direction turns the wheels completely one side to the other. May be one of those things that strange at first like “one peddle driving” then we start to prefer it.

Wrong. Guys that have received Ed their new models have shown that to make a u-turn or similar need to turn the yoke more than 1 full rotation. 360 degrees plus a half of a turn of the yoke

 

[Tam]

...new...

I would say the yoke steering wheel is retro to the classical age and not the new or modern age.

It has been around on aircraft and race cars for years.

Racecar drivers have been driving race cars with yoke steering for years.

However, with the Tesla Model S Plaid, he removed it and is still using rounded steering even on this very day.

As of Day 3 Pikes Peak, the 6/23/2021 videos still show the round steering wheel, and the yoke is no longer shown.

On the previous day, day 2 on 6/22/2021 shows the same round steering wheel:

Yes, we can get used to it but when it comes to roads outside of the race track, it looks like the advertisement from a famous racecar driver is not with a Tesla Yoke wheel but it's a rounded steering wheel in the Tesla Model S Plaid that keeps sticking out into our faces with the speed of 121 MPH.

Choosing a yoke steering wheel is just like choosing a horse that people can learn how to ride instead of a fast car. It brings back the old and not "new".

 

[sonofagunn]

I know your joking and this and the stupid yoke.

I'm not joking. My preference would be:

1. Round steering wheel
2. Yoke with a knob/disc
3. Yoke

 

[whitex]

Nearly everything new meets resistance. When the automobile first came out it used a lever on the floor for steering, and everyone complained when they changed it to a wheel.

Not saying the yoke is good or bad, because it isn't. It's just different, and many many people have difficulty changing, needing things to always be the way they were "back when". My take is that I will learn to use it and it will become normal to me. A lot of things have changed since I was a kid. Corded phones come to mind, and this computer on my desk. I had to practice my keyboarding, and I'd never used a "mouse". Now it's just natural. I figure the yoke will also become second nature.

While most changes meet resistance, most changes don't become the new normal. Even better technologies don't always win out in the end (example circa same time as yours - BetaMax video tapes were smaller, held more recordings at higher quality, yet people continued to use VHS). The yoke for consumer road cars could just as well end up similarly to this automotive innovation (which also had its die hard fans):

 

[01001010]

I've been a pilot since the late 60s and every airplane save one that I've flown has used a yoke. I like yokes and don't really see a problem having them in what I drive on the ground. I like both of my current Ss so don't anticipate buying a yoke model anytime soon but do hope I get to test drive one just to see what it's like.

Flying and driving are very different. Yokes are for control on three axis. You can’t pitch or roll a car. An airplane yoke controls roll when turned like a car. A cars wheel controls yaw. Airplanes don’t make three point turns. The Tesla yoke turns about 800 degrees. Airplane yokes turn 180 degrees lock to lock. Nothing about these controls are the same.

 

[FreqFlyer]

This is when you will know that Tesla actually believes in the yoke. When the mainstream 3 and Y go to the yoke. I bet the Truck comes with an option since it will have competition in a couple of years.

 

[Shinobi'sZ]

I've been a pilot since the late 60s and every airplane save one that I've flown has used a yoke. I like yokes and don't really see a problem having them in what I drive on the ground. I like both of my current Ss so don't anticipate buying a yoke model anytime soon but do hope I get to test drive one just to see what it's like.

Yeah me too since 4th grade and it's fine in a plane that uses yoke, because most likely it is not a high performance plane to begin with. Most high performance aircraft use a stick...not a yoke. Plus making U turns in traffic and slow speed the yoke is not ideal when turning past 90* which is unlikely you will ever do in a plane with a yoke...even if doing a full roll. I have raced many cars at drag strips and on road courses and the although Randy Prost managed using the yoke well at Laguna Seca, it does not mean that most people who barely know how to drive correctly will manage it on the street. I suspect that the NHTSB will weigh in on the matter sooner or later and Tesla will offer a replacement. Tesla should incorporate a design similar to the C8 Corvette..which is one of the best steering wheel designs I have used on the street and track.

 

[mark95476]

Congrats to Randy and UP for the win this year!

Just remember: The big boys, like F1, IndyCar, and Pikes Peak record holder VW IDR, all use yokes.

I would say the yoke steering wheel is retro to the classical age and not the new or modern age.

It has been around on aircraft and race cars for years.

Racecar drivers have been driving race cars with yoke steering for years.

However, with the Tesla Model S Plaid, he removed it and is still using rounded steering even on this very day.

As of Day 3 Pikes Peak, the 6/23/2021 videos still show the round steering wheel, and the yoke is no longer shown.

On the previous day, day 2 on 6/22/2021 shows the same round steering wheel:

Yes, we can get used to it but when it comes to roads outside of the race track, it looks like the advertisement from a famous racecar driver is not with a Tesla Yoke wheel but it's a rounded steering wheel in the Tesla Model S Plaid that keeps sticking out into our faces with the speed of 121 MPH.

Choosing a yoke steering wheel is just like choosing a horse that people can learn how to ride instead of a fast car. It brings back the old and not "new".

 

[vapor trail]

Congrats to Randy and UP for the win this year!

Just remember: The big boys, like F1, IndyCar, and Pikes Peak record holder VW IDR, all use yokes.

View attachment 683804

That's an absurd comparison.

Congrats to Randy and UP for the win this year!

Just remember: The big boys, like F1, IndyCar, and Pikes Peak record holder VW IDR, all use yokes.

View attachment 683804

I think this bears negligible if any relevance to implementation of the yoke in the Model S.

 

[Tam]

...Just remember: The big boys, like F1, IndyCar, and Pikes Peak record holder VW IDR, all use yokes...

Thanks for the reminder.

It's very interesting that when the arms were twisted like a knot: Left hand at 3 o'clock position and right hand at 9 o'clock position, the driver didn't switch the hands or untwist their arms. I guess they are pros so they have the capability to hold one hand to only one particular wing of the yoke even when that would result in arm twisting. It's like driving when each of your hands is tied with duct tape so you can't move your hands out of the original positions. It's like fighting in a tournament with hands tied. It's like PROS!

 

[mark95476]

It's simple biomechanics.

Try holding the top of the steering with both hands and you can turn about 90deg to the right or left. It's arguable the worst place to hold a steering wheels as you have the most restricted range of motion.

That's why every driving school teaches to hold the steering wheel in the 3 and 9 o'clock positions. Now you can turn ~180deg to the right or left without taking your hands off the wheel/yoke.

Two hands are always better than one. You have more strenth/control and can turn/adjust quicker.

Thanks for the reminder.

It's very interesting that when the arms were twisted like a knot: Left hand at 3 o'clock position and right hand at 9 o'clock position, the driver didn't switch the hands or untwist their arms. I guess they are pros so they have the capability to hold one hand to only one particular wing of the yoke even when that would result in arm twisting. It's like driving when each of your hands is tied with duct tape so you can't move your hands out of the original positions. It's like fighting in a tournament with hands tied. It's like PROS!

View attachment 683830

 

[mark95476]

Yeah...

- VW IDR did the entire Pike's Peak course faster with a yoke.
- Randy/UP only did part of the course with his steering wheel due to bad conditions.

That's an absurd comparison.


I think this bears negligible if any relevance to implementation of the yoke in the Model S.

 

[Cheburashka]

So true. Randy Probst would have obviously smoked that VW ID.R if only he kept the yoke for his entire run.

 

[TessP100D]

So true. Randy Probst would have obviously smoked that VW ID.R if only he kept the yoke for his entire run.

Hahahah. The yoke is a joke.

 

[kizamybute']

I've constantly paid attention to where my hands are on the wheel since the yoke was announced. My hands are constantly on the top half of the wheel. Especially when turning and making 3-point turns. I've tried a few times to pretend the top was gone and was so unnatural for my driving style. No to mention, stumbling to turn the wheel with only half of it. Yoke is different, Elon loves different, but not practical and whether it's unsafe or not is not for me to decide. It's certainly not as safe as a full wheel, that much I can say. Taking away half of the real estate on the wheel in no way could make it more safe.

Between that and having to use the screen to shift, not a chance I'll be buying a new one. I actually saw a new one on the road today. Wasn't able to get in front of it to see the front end. But from the rear and side, couldn't tell a difference between my 2019. I know there are subtle changes, but I wasn't able to spot them, despite having owned a Model S for going on 9 years now. Was already likely out the door as I'm simply ready to look at something new after 9 years. The fact that the Model S went the way of the Model 3 with all controls on the screen simply cemented the chance of me not buying one. Add that to the yoke and shifter, and the cement has been dropped to the bottom of the ocean. I love my current car, but unless something changes back in the "driver friendly" direction, this one will sadly be my last.

 

[CBGPE]

I have had my Plaid for about a week and 500 miles. The first 100 were awkward for tight turns. After that it became more natural. The reality is most steer inputs are pretty small. Large steer inputs are done mainly at low speed. What I find myself doing in a tight turn is to grab one of the "spokes" or the lower section of the yoke near the hub. Since it has power steering the lack of mechanical advantage is not a problem and large steer angles can be inputted easily. With a round wheel I use shuffle steer or some people in NYC TA call push pull steering which is the same thing. So the change to the Yoke was a big one. I bounce between a model X & S so far adjusting seems to be pretty automatic.
BTW about a 1/2 century ago when I worked for Bendix Brake and Steering we had a power variable ratio rack and pinion that was about 3/4th of a turn each way. It was fun to watch people get in and drive it for the first time as they Zig Zagged down the isle in the garage. It was amazing how fast they got used to it.
It would be ideal for the yoke.

 

[TessP100D]

I've constantly paid attention to where my hands are on the wheel since the yoke was announced. My hands are constantly on the top half of the wheel. Especially when turning and making 3-point turns. I've tried a few times to pretend the top was gone and was so unnatural for my driving style. No to mention, stumbling to turn the wheel with only half of it. Yoke is different, Elon loves different, but not practical and whether it's unsafe or not is not for me to decide. It's certainly not as safe as a full wheel, that much I can say. Taking away half of the real estate on the wheel in no way could make it more safe.

Between that and having to use the screen to shift, not a chance I'll be buying a new one. I actually saw a new one on the road today. Wasn't able to get in front of it to see the front end. But from the rear and side, couldn't tell a difference between my 2019. I know there are subtle changes, but I wasn't able to spot them, despite having owned a Model S for going on 9 years now. Was already likely out the door as I'm simply ready to look at something new after 9 years. The fact that the Model S went the way of the Model 3 with all controls on the screen simply cemented the chance of me not buying one. Add that to the yoke and shifter, and the cement has been dropped to the bottom of the ocean. I love my current car, but unless something changes back in the "driver friendly" direction, this one will sadly be my last.

Well said. Im with you.

 

[TessP100D]

I have had my Plaid for about a week and 500 miles. The first 100 were awkward for tight turns. After that it became more natural. The reality is most steer inputs are pretty small. Large steer inputs are done mainly at low speed. What I find myself doing in a tight turn is to grab one of the "spokes" or the lower section of the yoke near the hub. Since it has power steering the lack of mechanical advantage is not a problem and large steer angles can be inputted easily. With a round wheel I use shuffle steer or some people in NYC TA call push pull steering which is the same thing. So the change to the Yoke was a big one. I bounce between a model X & S so far adjusting seems to be pretty automatic.
BTW about a 1/2 century ago when I worked for Bendix Brake and Steering we had a power variable ratio rack and pinion that was about 3/4th of a turn each way. It was fun to watch people get in and drive it for the first time as they Zig Zagged down the isle in the garage. It was amazing how fast they got used to it.
It would be ideal for the yoke.

Yea. no.


I drive in the mountains and I need a full real round steering wheel. Not some toy. not some young engineers dream. Including Elon’s dreams.

now…. If Tesla releases new engineered steering ratios. Well maybe. Oh wait …. They haven’t.

so no.