About time to unveil the D and something else

[pete8314]

Long thread. I agree it'll either be dual-motors or a deluxe version, though I'd be more surprised by the latter, it tends to go against the 'simple and clean' ethos that Elon has previous preached, but then again, China wants luxurious interiors, and the margins are much higher.

Not going to be the X announcement though, no way. That'll be a stand-alone deal, and with a lot more fanfare.

Of course, historically we (as a group) have been quite disappointed by the eventual announcement that follows an Elon tweet, so I'm not blocking out the 9th!

 

[Bunky]

I have doubts that it would be a Deluxe model for the Chinese market. I think it would be a bit out of touch to tease a luxury limousine model, on twitter, in the US if that was the case. There would be a pretty small market for such a model over here. Certainly on the individual level.

Anyone know if Elon also posted this or anything similar on Weibo?

Seems more realistic that they have developed the AWD/Dual Motor platform for the X and they just plonk a Model S body on top.

 

[apacheguy]

WSJ:
In this case, the tweet is likely referring to an equipment upgrade instead of a new vehicle. In an interview with The Wall Street Journal last month, Mr. Musk said the company isn't working on any other vehicles currently besides those announced. However, he said the company was going to make "significant" product news.
All-wheel drive is an important feature for cold-weather climates. Luxury car brand Jaguar didn't offer it on its models until a few years ago and executives felt it limited sales in snowy regions.
A spokesman for Mr. Musk and Silicon Valley-based Tesla couldn't be reached. Shares of Tesla traded up 3.2% in the premarket, or $7.64 higher to $247.88.
Tesla - WSJ

Sorry, WSJ, I think you're wrong. AWD being retrofittable? Get outta here.

Actually, on second thought, possibly retrofittable but at > 40 k price tag.

 

[SCDrJ]

Sorry, WSJ, I think you're wrong. AWD being retrofittable? Get outta here.

Actually, on second thought, possibly retrofittable but at > 40 k price tag.

I think with the driver assistance upgrades and the likely AWD upgrade, I think we are going to finally see Tesla "drop support" of older cars as time passes, much like Apple's new iOS doesn't work on the iPhone 3G anymore, or how WindowsXP is no longer updated. Using Windows as the example, along the way the software got so bloated because everything had to be backward-compatible. I imagine the days of expensive retrofits will soon be over, and the answer will have to be "buy a new car" if you want the newest stuff. Tesla will likely seek to make as many of its software improvements scalable to older models, but it will have to end somewhere with hardware. I don't imagine Tesla service centers are going to want to maintain Signature cars with parking sensor retrofit, mirror retrofit, 2015 AWD retrofit, and so on forever - it'll get too complicated to keep the versions straight. Early adopters have missed out on a lot of hardware upgrades along the way, but they have found their cars get better over time, which just doesn't happen with other makes. What does make sense though, is to take the plunge right after a major refresh, so that you have the most time with the newest kit.

 

[jvonbokel]

It's Dual Motor and Drive Assist:

ftp://ftp.nhtsa.dot.gov/mfrmail/org9130.pdf

Is anybody else having trouble with this link? I keep getting a 0KB file. Hopefully somebody can upload it here.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Sorry, WSJ, I think you're wrong. AWD being retrofittable? Get outta here.

Actually, on second thought, possibly retrofittable but at > 40 k price tag.

I have no idea how you get "retrofit" from the WSJ article.

There's no doubt in my mind that not only is an AWD retrofit not going to be offered, but it's not even possible.

 

[Seattle]

As far as the D for Deluxe thinking goes, they previously announced a long wheel base version for China, or at least I read about it in several places.

I sure hope it means D for Dual. My most hoped for plan would be one with a new AWD choice slotted between regular and P, just to save a little money.

This morning my wife said "Hey, if it is AWD, you can get the D and I'll get your model S". So I've got that going for me. AWD, driver assist, heated back seat for the win. What future options could they offer that would make me gnash my teeth again? Is such a thing even possible

Wait, I know, faster damn computer system running their web browser / console That would be worth money. Since you can buy a fast laptop for $1000, they should offer upgraded console computer system for $1000.

 

[malcolm]

I was expecting A for "Autobahn"

 

[austinEV]

I think "DD" was the double entendre Elon had in mind.

D: AWD model S available immediately.
D: Driver assist features.

But, I HOPE it is a Deluxe trim for the Asia market and others. As others have said, the luxury has been lacking for the price range. All of these things help the gross margin.

 

[SCDrJ]

I sure hope it means D for Dual. My most hoped for plan would be one with a new AWD choice slotted between regular and P, just to save a little money.

+1. Exactly.

 

[Seattle]

Is anybody else having trouble with this link? I keep getting a 0KB file. Hopefully somebody can upload it here.

It's a government form for VIN encoding for the Tesla and one of the digits encodes drive motor. It says (1) for single drive motor, (2) for dual drive motor. The D for Dual seems like a clear match.

 

[nrcooled]

Done!
View attachment org9130.pdf

Personally, my money is on the deluxe AWD but I heavilly lean towards the D = Disappoinment

 

[Seattle]

Personally, my money is on the deluxe AWD but I heavilly lean towards the D = Disappoinment

I do wish they only teased us about it a single day ahead of time. I hate early pre-announcements.

 

[MarkoC]

I just hope that D doesn't stand for my Model X is Delayed again.

 

[scaesare]

the Drive Unit is never touched across all the car versions... The difference between the 85 and P85 is the inverter.

The inverter (along with the motor and gearbox/differential) make up the entire sub-assembly known as the drive unit.

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Someone with photoshop should try opening the image up with that and see if there are any left-over layers that were not deleted/removed in the image.

Once an image is exported as .jpg (and no longer a .psd file) the layers are flattened and thus lost.

 

[chickensevil]

Yup, I corrected my post but I do remember a discussion about the drive unit being hand wound (denser windings). Though I haven't seen a specification from Tesla on that.

I know what you are talking about and I think that was just for the Roadsters. None of that language carried over into the Model S, but I think people just kept thinking that was the case. For what it's worth he is a posting from 2012 on the other forums which talked about it a bit back and forth and the following confirmation was made on the subject:

BYT | 25. JUNI 2012
I had to ask a few people but it was confirmed that absolutely ALL motors are now mechanically wound and NOT by hand! They are after all trying to mass produce the Model S as apposed to the hand build Roadsters.

and a second confirmation from another poster:

Timo | 26. JUNI 2012Tesla rep says that all motors are machine-wound.

Humans can adjust on fly, but humans also can't reach same accuracy, and there is not much to adjust in that kind of job. It is all matter of designing the perfect pattern for motor, then building the machine to do the job.

Model S vs Model S Performance (price difference) | Forums | Tesla Motors (sorry for the german link... blame google)

 

[sjoshuaj]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but the D could be a Model S wagon. They are popular in Europe and would not require a whole lot of effort to make since it's mostly all the same parts just a bigger rear end. Might also explain why the top part of the vehicle is obscured in the image as that might have slightly changed near the top on the sides.

Think about it a Model W is difficult to say but what other letter do you say when you say the letter "W". Yup it's a "D" sound. So it's could be a Model D or it could just be a Model S D85 with the "D" standing for Wagon.

 

[scaesare]

Yup, I corrected my post but I do remember a discussion about the drive unit being hand wound (denser windings). Though I haven't seen a specification from Tesla on that.

I've heard that rumor, but never an authoritative source for it. I've also seen just as many claims that the motor is the same (even folks who have seen motors destined for both models having the same part number).

Tesla doesn't seem to claim it anywhere, yet they do specifically call out "High performance drive inverter" on the ordering page.

Thus I tend to believe that it's only the inverter that's the differentiator, not the motor.

 

[apacheguy]

I have no idea how you get "retrofit" from the WSJ article.

Ah, you're right. On second read through, they said "equipment upgrade" which I parsed as "retrofit" in the context of the thread.

 

[chickensevil]

The inverter (along with the motor and gearbox/differential) make up the entire sub-assembly known as the drive unit.

Once an image is exported as .jpg (and no longer a .psd file) the layers flattened and thus lost.

Sorry, poor wording on my part, I meant the motor not the drive unit. Does help to get the words correct when discussing such things. Actually looking over the Model X skateboard it does look like it has two full drive units (which would include the drive inverters). They have always talked about the lower power unit going in the front though to give you the most power in the rear and then the front unit would be geared at a different ratio to provide more optimal performance at high speeds.

I don't see why they wouldn't follow this exact same model in the MS. Based on the MX pictures provided there is also a distinction between normal and performance, and it marks both the front and rear drive units in red on the photos to signify that they are beefing up both of them with the higher performance. But my point still stands that the AC Induction Motors (hopefully that term is more than clear enough) is the same across all current platforms. This is not the thing that is changed. At least to the best of my knowledge and Googling skills.

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Oh and scaesare, about the the image file, thanks, I didn't even check to see what format it was... I thought it might have been a PNG which has the chance to not have been flattened before being published. So there goes that...