Accident while on EAP...

[trident]

Glad your ok and no one hurt. I didn't read all the post, but here is the thing; my old 2018 Mercedes S had a system that monitored you when their version of AP was engaged and would shut the vehicle down after X amount of time for non response, probably not quick enough in your case, but never the less it was in the system. Cadillac with Super Cruise has a camera on your face all the time and shut down if you don't respond, facial recognition. The model 3 has a pin hole camera above the mirror, what is it's purpose? Seems the stuff is there to provide assistance, but maybe in the next update.

 

[whatthe2]

Glad your ok and no one hurt. I didn't read all the post, but here is the thing; my old 2018 Mercedes S had a system that monitored you when their version of AP was engaged and would shut the vehicle down after X amount of time for non response, probably not quick enough in your case, but never the less it was in the system. Cadillac with Super Cruise has a camera on your face all the time and shut down if you don't respond, facial recognition. The model 3 has a pin hole camera above the mirror, what is it's purpose? Seems the stuff is there to provide assistance, but maybe in the next update.

As of now, nothing. Yes, maybe in a later update.

 

[dsnows]

Seems that AEB failed as well....

AEB doesn’t activate a low speeds. It’s only designed to slow the car when moving fast to reduce impact.

 

[JasJ]

Autopilot will not only nag you like crazy, but it will stop the car when it shuts off with the hazard lights on

Jump to the 2:14 part of the video

 

[dsnows]

Are you sure you still don't get AP after NoAP disengages? I thought that was the case. I'm not near my car so can't test, but could have sworn once NoAP disengages, AP kicks in.

That is correct. At some point on the exit ramp the car will automatically switch from NoAP to AP. I’ve done this many times. AP continues until you steer, brake, or disengage.

 

[whatthe2]

That is correct. At some point on the exit ramp the car will automatically switch from NoAP to AP. I’ve done this many times. AP continues until you steer, brake, or disengage.

That's what I thought. I am thinking that if the OP was using NoAP (not AP), that AP would have kicked in and there wouldn't have been enough time to nag the OP several times and shut off AP before the accident.

However, if the OP was using AP (not NoAP), that there would have been several nags and AP would have continued (when the car slowed and sped up with the car in front), but then shut off just before impact.

My theory anyway.

 

[Tam]

Are you sure you still don't get AP after NoAP disengages? I thought that was the case. I'm not near my car so can't test, but could have sworn once NoAP disengages, AP kicks in.

NoA does switch to AP automatically except this AP switch is modified in 1 aspect.

A real AP mode will not brake or reduce speed to 0 mile per hour if there's no lead car in front.

When NoA switches to AP and if there's no input from a driver, the car is now on AP mode but its speed becomes 0 even when there's no lead car in front.

 

[Tam]

...Tesla and other manufacturers can make this technology more reliable going forward.

That's why others advocate for LIDAR because RADAR is still unreliable to brake for dangerous obstacles and Tesla's camera system is not well developed enough to brake for dangerous obstacles.

 

[Krazaak]

Hard to know for sure, but as mentioned by others, it looks like foot on accelerator, which completely overrides AP braking. The only other reasonable option is it thinking the lead car changed lanes, but there's no reason to suspect that from the road markings.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Since I dozed off and there isn't an internal cam, I can't be 100% sure it was still on, but I know that it was on before I dozed off.

Actually, there IS an internal cam . . . would be interesting to see what it shows.

Elon: This is a pretty pathetic AP failure if, indeed, it was on and not being overridden.

Please, fix it, especially as I just dropped the $2k for FSD . . . .

 

[McFlurri]

You are surely mistaken as I'm sure the logs will show. The chances of him dozing off and touching the accelerator are FAR greater than the chances AP failed, AEB failed, and TACC failed. All you have to do is touch the accelerator a few millimeters for the message that pops up saying "Cruise will not brake", but it won't be enough to accelerate faster than the speed TACC was set to.

I don't see how i'm "surely mistaken".

I reviewed the evidence provided thus far, and the video does not indicate even the slightest increase in speed as would indicate that the driver of vehicle 1 pressed the accelerator.

I could be mistaken.. but.. "surely mistaken"... idk about that.

Do you have any additional insight/ evidence to provide?

AP fails quite a bit to be frank. I have personally experienced AP failing and almost rear ending vehicles on multiple occasions. I was attentive and intervened in each of those situations, but it does make your heart skip a beat...

 

[Tam]

...Elon: This is a pretty pathetic AP failure if, indeed, it was on and not being overridden.

Please, fix it, especially as I just dropped the $2k for FSD . . . .

I hope people knew what they paid for.

Normally, companies would pay you, give you incentives or just give you free their beta products.

But Tesla is different: It charges you for its unproven beta product!

Autopilot is a beta product and it has consistently performed according to its classification: It works sometimes and at other times not so much.

Tesla is working hard at it but when will it graduate from a beta status is still unknown.

 

[Freewilly]

Agree with what you have said. (Former Police Officer and Level III Accident Investigator here as well, FWIW).

OP, curious if you can answer the question if you were using NoAP or just AP? I think it makes a difference if the nag alert would have happened in time or not.

NoAP, I want the neural net to learn as much as possible.

 

[Freewilly]

Something strange:
You car is perfectly centered (as opposed to the one in front which is a little bit off to the right)...hard to do without AP on.

Only scenario; AP is ON but OP has the foot on accelerator.

I'm not denying that this could be a possibility.

 

[Dre78]

I'm glad that you and many others feel the same way. I've had this problem before (especially after long hours of work and little sleep the night before) and it's one of the main reason's that led to me being a Tesla owner because I don't want to endanger anyone else on the road. I recently read something from the CDC that states that 1 in 25 people on the road doze off behind the wheel. Hopefully, Tesla and other manufacturers can make this technology more reliable going forward.

Word.

 

[fbitz777]

Autopilot will not only nag you like crazy, but it will stop the car when it shuts off with the hazard lights on

Jump to the 2:14 part of the video

I am in AP jail about once every trip I make and never seen the car make any attempt to stop...but again I always take over the steering right away and TACC mode still is working. Not a case where I am asleep though...will try that next as it seems like a cool feature.

 

[RoBoRaT]

My guess is that when the Driver OP dozed off, TACC was limited due to the curved road (as mentioned in the owner's manual).

Emergency braking was activated as designed to reduce the speed of the car, but can't totally avoid the collision (by veering off the road since it must drive within the confines of the lines).




From Model 3 manual Feb 2019 edition:

" Limitations:

Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is particularly unlikely to operate as intended in the following types of situations:

• The road has sharp curves.

• Visibility is poor (due to heavy rain, snow, fog, etc.). • Bright light (such as from oncoming headlights or direct sunlight) is interfering with the view of the camera(s).

• The radar sensor is obstructed (dirty, covered, etc.). • The windshield is obstructing the view of the camera(s) (fogged over, dirty, covered by a sticker, etc.)."

 

[mswlogo]

NoA does switch to AP automatically except this AP switch is modified in 1 aspect.

A real AP mode will not brake or reduce speed to 0 mile per hour if there's no lead car in front.

When NoA switches to AP and if there's no input from a driver, the car is now on AP mode but its speed becomes 0 even when there's no lead car in front.

Switching from NoA to AP has no nag. It just happens when you drive in conditions (bad weather for example) or locations not supported. All NoA is AP with lane suggestions. But it doesn’t mean all that much. It will still steer and control speed. And if you get nagged on auto steer it will still run ACC. Not sure what you mean by speed becomes 0.

Since I don’t ignore nag often, if you break out of AP (or NoA) with the steering wheel. Is that the same as ignoring the nag?

I think the car was still steering and foot was touching throttle (which won’t cancel the auto steer). Just a hunch.

We all agree NoA / AP has issues. But this was not such an example.

 

[dailo]

I have seen this happen to me a few times when a car is not directly in front of me and the car would accelerate thinking there is no car in front of me. If I had not hit the brakes, I definitely would have gotten into an accident. This typically only happens when the car in front of me moves far to the left to make way for a motorcycle and maybe only half the car is still in the lane.

 

[Magnets!]

AEB doesn’t activate a low speeds. It’s only designed to slow the car when moving fast to reduce impact.

AEB works between 7-90 mph. There was no AEB slowing in this collision.