After 5-weeks, I turned FSD Beta off!

After years of waiting I finally got my FSD Beta! After 6-weeks I turned it off.

I found the promise of the FSD Beta to be overblown. Yes it is very cool that the car will navigate on city streets to a destination. But the car is far too timid to be usable. It is worse than driving with a student driver. Also, the car’s hesitation causes a lot of problems with other drivers who get confused when they see the car stop or slow, when it should not. But that is not what made me turn it off.

I turned it off because it made the overall driving experience annoying, and more dangerous.

With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled.

And then there is a notice at nearly every traffic light that one is coming, even when running only on TACC. I find I am spending time clearing nuisance alerts instead focusing 100% of my time on driving the car. And the sudden speed changes, if you miss one of the alerts, is just another version of the phantom breaking problem with the same set of issues for the cars behind. Note that I have this feature disabled under AP. This does not occur if FSD is disabled.

Next we have speed based lane changes. I disabled this under AP and the FSD stack just ignores this as well, and there is no way to tell it not to do so.

So overall, the benefit of having FSD is very minimal, while the negative impact to quality and enjoyment of driving is very real. I definably will not be buying FSD on a future car, unless these problems are fixed.

"Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[johnnycnote]

As someone looking to purchase a Tesla it seems that fsd is not worth it. Which car would you recommend I look for - one that has enhanced auto pilot or just ap 1 is good enough ?

I decided on Tesla without taking FSD into consideration. The biggest deciding factors were the Supercharger network and the software. IMHO, Tesla is miles better than anything else I've driven. I'm currently renting FSDb and I think it's fantastic driver assist tool well worth the $200/mo. I miss when I drive any other vehicle that doesn't have it

Test drive as many EVs as you can and see which one fits your needs better. Keep us posted!

 

[Dewg]

As someone looking to purchase a Tesla it seems that fsd is not worth it. Which car would you recommend I look for - one that has enhanced auto pilot or just ap 1 is good enough ?

Mercedes EQS with Drive Pilot

 

[drtimhill]

With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled.

And then there is a notice at nearly every traffic light that one is coming, even when running only on TACC. I find I am spending time clearing nuisance alerts instead focusing 100% of my time on driving the car. And the sudden speed changes, if you miss one of the alerts, is just another version of the phantom breaking problem with the same set of issues for the cars behind. Note that I have this feature disabled under AP. This does not occur if FSD is disabled.

Not sure about all this. First, FSD is beta, so by definition is WILL be rough around the edges (and more!). Second "when running only on TACC" means FSD is disabled, so what has that got to do with FSD? Are you sure you know what FSD is? I think you may be mistaking the simple "FSD purview" which just did some traffic light tricks, with the full FSD beta, which is a very different animal.

 

[ATPMSD]

As someone looking to purchase a Tesla it seems that fsd is not worth it. Which car would you recommend I look for - one that has enhanced auto pilot or just ap 1 is good enough ?

Personally I find the Autopilot , which is included, to be good enough as I am very capable of executing turns. I feel it is many years off before FSDb, or anyone’s self-driving system will be truly usable. Tesla’s is still the best, I just would not bother with FSD. BTW, you can have FSD as a monthly subscription so you can play with it as you wish.

 

[ATPMSD]

First, FSD is beta, so by definition

Tesla abuses the term "beta," they have no idea what that word actually means. Did you know that "Autowipers" is still listed a "Beta?" Why?

when running only on TACC" means FSD is disabled, so what has that got to do with FSD?

Please re-read my post more carefully; if only your statement was true! Although FSDb may not be "active," if it is installed and enabled in the menu it impacts the behavior of both TACC and AP, and that is my issue.

 

[BrendonHolt]

As someone looking to purchase a Tesla it seems that fsd is not worth it. Which car would you recommend I look for - one that has enhanced auto pilot or just ap 1 is good enough ?

I for one purchasing used because of the cost of Enhanced Autopilot, which gives you features in most new automobiles. Lane Keeping, Traffic Aware Cruise Control and some advanced features.
Without the Enhanced Auto Pilot it is an Electric Car with less features then many much cheaper cars, in my humble opinion. Lots of great cars that provide lane assist/keep, TACC and you can buy a lot of gas with 30K in your pocket.

EAP should be standard, FSD Option, and since Beta, a lot cheaper then 15K or $199 per month, again in my humble opinion.
AP1 is good enough, but in reality it means every time you change lane you are more active with engage and disengage of Lane Keeping. PIA on a long trip, but not intolerable. Still a great EV, just seems EAP is what makes Tesla Technology so great.

 

[ATPMSD]

Enhanced Autopilot, which gives you features in most new automobiles. Lane Keeping, Traffic Aware Cruise Control and some advanced features.

TACC and AP (lane-keeping) are not part of EAP, they are standard in the car. EAP is

1. Navigate on Autopilot
2. Auto Lane Change
3. Autopark
4. Summon
5. Smart Summon

 

[BrendonHolt]

TACC and AP (lane-keeping) are not part of EAP, they are standard in the car. EAP is

1. Navigate on Autopilot
2. Auto Lane Change
3. Autopark
4. Summon
5. Smart Summon

Correct, let me clarify. Lane Keeping needs to be re-engaged, not just hit the turn signal and let the car do it and stay in lane. So if you change lanes that will disengage the Lane Keeping on change. That is standard on a lot of Automobiles.

 

[SilverStar]

We were going 55 in a 40 and he was tail gating me.

A lot to unpack there.

What do you see as FSD errant role here outside it's willingness to allow manual setting of whatever the driver wants, at least until it spots a speed limit street sign?

 

[DWtsn]

Not sure about all this. First, FSD is beta, so by definition is WILL be rough around the edges (and more!). Second "when running only on TACC" means FSD is disabled, so what has that got to do with FSD? Are you sure you know what FSD is? I think you may be mistaking the simple "FSD purview" which just did some traffic light tricks, with the full FSD beta, which is a very different animal.

That's not really true. There are many times when I am trying to "disable" FSD by deselecting via the "button" on the screen and reducing the technology to TACC and I still have the FSD "solid blue line" on my screen, I still have the car automatically changing lanes "to stay out of rightmost lane", although that is the lane I should legally be in, etc. So these two systems (TACC, FSDb) are so entwined that while you can turn it off sometimes when you wish, but other times it overrides your wishes. This is problematic in itself because the other day my car was acting so quirky that I tried to detriment to TACC and it refused to come out of FSD. I had to go into the menus and disable the entire thing. This caused so many issues with the car that only a hard reset got my car back to normal again. Telling me that FSDb is so integrated into every system (TACC/AP/FSD) that they are reliant upon one another.

 

[ATPMSD]

That's not really true. There are many times when I am trying to "disable" FSD by deselecting via the "button" on the screen and reducing the technology to TACC and I still have the FSD "solid blue line" on my screen, I still have the car automatically changing lanes "to stay out of rightmost lane", although that is the lane I should legally be in, etc. So these two systems (TACC, FSDb) are so entwined that while you can turn it off sometimes when you wish, but other times it overrides your wishes. This is problematic in itself because the other day my car was acting so quirky that I tried to detriment to TACC and it refused to come out of FSD. I had to go into the menus and disable the entire thing. This caused so many issues with the car that only a hard reset got my car back to normal again. Telling me that FSDb is so integrated into every system (TACC/AP/FSD) that they are reliant upon one another.

I suggest you are confusing FSD with NoA. NoA operates on highways and major roads while FSDb operates on “city” streets. Everything you have referred to is either AP or NoA, and not FSDb. Also, they are building blocks: TACC manages speed, AP manages lane keeping, NoA manages basic navigation, and FSD extends navigation to city streets.

Before FSDb each function was isolated in that any settings made within on area did not impact another. My issue is that if you enable FSDb it disregards many of those settings even when not actively using FSDb. If you “disable” FSDb these settings are then not disregarded.

 

[BrendonHolt]

I suggest you are confusing FSD with NoA. NoA operates on highways and major roads while FSDb operates on “city” streets. Everything you have referred to is either AP or NoA, and not FSDb. Also, they are building blocks: TACC manages speed, AP manages lane keeping, NoA manages basic navigation, and FSD extends navigation to city streets.

Before FSDb each function was isolated in that any settings made within on area did not impact another. My issue is that if you enable FSDb it disregards many of those settings even when not actively using FSDb. If you “disable” FSDb these settings are then not disregarded.

As a long time Software CEO I see this post as the problem. An end user is supposed to understand which system is failing causing them to have to reboot the entire computer to resolve the issues with one system or the other.

In reality this post is very informative, love it, but in and of itself, it makes the end users point. That the multiple systems are so integrated into the Computer System that it can provide desired effects that require a reboot. The fact it works right once rebooted says this is not only Beta software, but that the Software Manufacture has a long way to go. In irony, it is less complicated to send a rocket to the moon then it is to drive on a City or Highway Street.

 

[ATPMSD]

That the multiple systems are so integrated into the Computer System that it can provide desired effects that require a reboot.

I found this statement odd from a Software CEO. As a former CIO I can tell you all software is built as a stack, each new piece leveraging older software lower in the stack. In fact, if you dig into Windows you will likely find code dating back to Windows 95. This old software is why the Windows Blue Screen of Death is still around. It very time consuming and expensive to replace an entire stack of software.

Tesla is just doing what almost every software manufacturer does. However, it is also my understanding that Tesla intends to replace their current stack with a unified stack.

 

[BrendonHolt]

I found this statement odd from a Software CEO. As a former CIO I can tell you all software is built as a stack, each new piece leveraging older software lower in the stack. In fact, if you dig into Windows you will likely find code dating back to Windows 95. This old software is why the Windows Blue Screen of Death is still around. It very time consuming and expensive to replace an entire stack of software.

Tesla is just doing what almost every software manufacturer does. However, it is also my understanding that Tesla intends to replace their current stack with a unified stack.

Yes my point is the answer in and of itself is the issue. If a Stack, if Class or Module is irrelevant, what is relevant is end user purchases hi-tech automobile and has to reboot it to perform correctly.

As a CIO, surely you did not like to reboot enterprise production servers to get them to just function correctly. A car is more like a Enterprise Data Center Application not a Windows desktop application. Should not require reboot to do core functions.

You do understand this very debate is an issue, do you not. I am sure someone who pays 130K for an automobile and 15K for an upgrade of software surely understands.

 

[ATPMSD]

Should not require reboot to do core functions.

Totally agree, but this is going to continue to happen, especially as Tesla software is far from a finished product. It is nowhere near Enterprise Class Software.

 

[drtimhill]

There are many times when I am trying to "disable" FSD by deselecting via the "button" on the screen and reducing the technology to TACC and I still have the FSD "solid blue line" on my screen, I still have the car automatically changing lanes "to stay out of rightmost lane", although that is the lane I should legally be in, etc

The solid blue line is shared by NoA and FSD beta. If you dont see red lines marking the edges of roadways, then you are using TASS and/or NoA, not FSD beta at all, and in fact FSD beta is NEVER engaged on freeways (the red lines will vanish). It's NoA on freeways that is changing lanes, and that has its own on/off control that is distinct from FSD beta (if you actually have the beta, which I'm unclear about).

 

[DWtsn]

The solid blue line is shared by NoA and FSD beta. If you dont see red lines marking the edges of roadways, then you are using TASS and/or NoA, not FSD beta at all, and in fact FSD beta is NEVER engaged on freeways (the red lines will vanish). It's NoA on freeways that is changing lanes, and that has its own on/off control that is distinct from FSD beta (if you actually have the beta, which I'm unclear about).

I have FSDb, my concern was that ALL was turned off the other day, 3 selections from the menus, yet the system continued to function with the blue line and the edge line markings. This occurred for several miles.

 

[BrendonHolt]

To the poster that asked about LIDAR, Volvo 2024 delivery date, we will see, will depend heavily on LIDAR. It is in the advertisement/marketing, because it is highly reliable.
Mobileye and LIDAR solutions will compete with Elon's Visual Only. They all will have sensor solutions, including video as one option. But don't worry guys, Elon will realize visual only is a huge mistake and he will have to adjust, the market will force this on him, one way or another.

Volvo EX90

https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/ex90-electric/?&msclkid=97d4ba54c5b814d216e0d9bae71cb698&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=us_nat_innovation_consideration-appeal_09_22_masterbrand_other_10026-beyond-safe_brd_phr_eng&utm_term=ex90&utm_content=Brand%20-%20EX90%20-%20Phrase&gclid=97d4ba54c5b814d216e0d9bae71cb698&gclsrc=3p.ds

 

[Thud]

It looks like we now know the precise number of vehicles currently using the FSD beta:

Tesla recalls 362,758 vehicles, says Full Self-Driving Beta software may cause crashes

The Tesla recall notice was posted on the on the website of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Thursday.

www.cnbc.com

Like most recent Tesla "recalls" this one will be fixed via a software update, however - this won't be trivial because the "fix" is essentially "make FSD work".

 

[BigNick]

It looks like we now know the precise number of vehicles currently using the FSD beta:

Tesla recalls 362,758 vehicles, says Full Self-Driving Beta software may cause crashes

The Tesla recall notice was posted on the on the website of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Thursday.

www.cnbc.com

Like most recent Tesla "recalls" this one will be fixed via a software update, however - this won't be trivial because the "fix" is essentially "make FSD work".

If they can't make it work in the software, that's a lot of $$$ in hardware upgrades, or $5.44B to refund.