After 5-weeks, I turned FSD Beta off!

After years of waiting I finally got my FSD Beta! After 6-weeks I turned it off.

I found the promise of the FSD Beta to be overblown. Yes it is very cool that the car will navigate on city streets to a destination. But the car is far too timid to be usable. It is worse than driving with a student driver. Also, the car’s hesitation causes a lot of problems with other drivers who get confused when they see the car stop or slow, when it should not. But that is not what made me turn it off.

I turned it off because it made the overall driving experience annoying, and more dangerous.

With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled.

And then there is a notice at nearly every traffic light that one is coming, even when running only on TACC. I find I am spending time clearing nuisance alerts instead focusing 100% of my time on driving the car. And the sudden speed changes, if you miss one of the alerts, is just another version of the phantom breaking problem with the same set of issues for the cars behind. Note that I have this feature disabled under AP. This does not occur if FSD is disabled.

Next we have speed based lane changes. I disabled this under AP and the FSD stack just ignores this as well, and there is no way to tell it not to do so.

So overall, the benefit of having FSD is very minimal, while the negative impact to quality and enjoyment of driving is very real. I definably will not be buying FSD on a future car, unless these problems are fixed.

"Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

 

[argon2018]

LIDAR?

Older cars had it in the front and the car would see two cars ahead and would break before you would realize why it’s doing that. It was remarkable

 

[SalisburySam]

Older cars had it in the front and the car would see two cars ahead and would break before you would realize why it’s doing that. It was remarkable

Do you mean radar? My 2018 M3 has a radar unit that does what you state, but I don’t know of any Teslas with LIDAR. Source?

 

[ATPMSD]

Do you mean radar? My 2018 M3 has a radar unit that does what you state, but I don’t know of any Teslas with LIDAR. Source?

Pretty sure it was always Radar.

LIDAR stands for Light Detection and Ranging. It uses light in the form of a pulsed laser to measure ranges.

 

[TresLA]

sorry but that is shifting the goalposts in a way that Tesla themselves do not.
FSD doesn't have to be requested any more than AP does. Here is the screen, one slider each for Autosteer (Beta) and one for Full Self-Driving(Beta)
Nothing so far about it not being production ready.
Following that is the Autosteer message, if we are counting this as "production ready" then there isn't much difference to the FSD message is there?
View attachment 901136View attachment 901138
so basically Tesla has already made FSD publicly available as production ready otherwise they wouldn't have pushed it out to over 400k car already.
There are some releases of FSD that are early access, but 10.69.25.2 is not one of them.
People here are making their own personal distinctions for what counts as "production" which is not how Tesla treats it.

In this instance, no one is moving any goalposts including Tesla. FSD beta is still in “early limited access Beta” as of 2022.33.30.10 (the same release that you mention and currently the latest publicly available FSDb), the same language as when it was first released (at least to non-Tesla employees) back in Oct 2021. It’s not the same as production AP, one reason being you can lose FSDb after 5 strikes. AP/NoA doesn’t get pulled away from you no matter how many strikes. You should have posted/checked the legal terms requiring acknowledgement when you enable the FSD beta slider (attached here):

 

[TresLA]

I am not confusing anything. It would be one thing if FSDb ignored those setting when it was active, but enabling FSDb on the menu impacts settings for TACC and AP functionality even when FSDb has not been engaged, and that is the problem. FSDb functionally is only active when it is enabled on the menu, AP is engaged, and the car is on “city” streets. It is easy to see when FSDb is active just by looking at the display.

Recall also that at present the AP/NoA stack and FSDb stack are different stacks and have not as yet been merged into a single stack. All the more reason why the FSDb stack should not be impacting the AP/NoA stack.

Perhaps a moot point, but to at least correct your misunderstanding: enabling FSDb has always impacted production AP/NoAP. Teslas with radar hardware had it shut off the moment FSDb was opted in and the new software was installed, regardless of whether FSDb was enabled or not. Vision-only was the only option (remember this vision-only FSDb was awhile before it was pushed to production AP for Teslas with radar hardware).

Another clue this is different despite both using old NoAP stacks is the fact that you still have to download and install a different software version/branch than production AP after requesting FSDb.

Another clue is FSDb car visualization shows more than just your adjacent lanes when on divided highways (old software stack looking visualization aka not FSDb visualization), while production AP is still limited to adjacent lanes only (whether NoAP is currently enabled/being used or not).

 

[JulienW]

....Autopilot has been a game changer and I wish they didn’t turn off the LiDAR.....

People were complaining that it was hitting when entering parking decks so Tesla decided to remove it.

Tesla with LiDAR and mfg plate spotted testing in Palo Alto near Model 3 sighting

On the same day a black Model 3 release candidate was spotted driving around Silicon Valley, another Teslarati reader caught a Model S with a roof mounted LiDAR and additional self-driving hardware testing around the grounds of Tesla’s headquarters in Palo Alto, California. After further...

www.teslarati.com

 

[TresLA]

Tesla has only used LiDAR for “ground truthing”. No Tesla customers have ever had LiDAR hardware.

 

[SMC-tx]

After years of waiting I finally got my FSD Beta! After 6-weeks I turned it off.

I found the promise of the FSD Beta to be overblown. Yes it is very cool that the car will navigate on city streets to a destination. But the car is far too timid to be usable. It is worse than driving with a student driver. Also, the car’s hesitation causes a lot of problems with other drivers who get confused when they see the car stop or slow, when it should not. But that is not what made me turn it off.

I turned it off because it made the overall driving experience annoying, and more dangerous.

With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled.

And then there is a notice at nearly every traffic light that one is coming, even when running only on TACC. I find I am spending time clearing nuisance alerts instead focusing 100% of my time on driving the car. And the sudden speed changes, if you miss one of the alerts, is just another version of the phantom breaking problem with the same set of issues for the cars behind. Note that I have this feature disabled under AP. This does not occur if FSD is disabled.

Next we have speed based lane changes. I disabled this under AP and the FSD stack just ignores this as well, and there is no way to tell it not to do so.

So overall, the benefit of having FSD is very minimal, while the negative impact to quality and enjoyment of driving is very real. I definably will not be buying FSD on a future car, unless these problems are fixed.

View attachment 904010
"Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

I’m very close to doing the same.

FSDb is excellent much of the time, but occasionally it just fails in the weirdest and most unexpected ways, in situations that do not even appear complex. Every time I activate it I feel a little nervous because I know it is a matter of time before I need to take back control just to get through a simple intersection.

I respect that it is a very hard problem to solve, and I hope Tesla gets it where it needs to be. But I’m tired of being a disappointed guinea pig. I’ll just drive it myself.

 

[DWtsn]

After years of waiting I finally got my FSD Beta! After 6-weeks I turned it off.

I found the promise of the FSD Beta to be overblown. Yes it is very cool that the car will navigate on city streets to a destination. But the car is far too timid to be usable. It is worse than driving with a student driver. Also, the car’s hesitation causes a lot of problems with other drivers who get confused when they see the car stop or slow, when it should not. But that is not what made me turn it off.

I turned it off because it made the overall driving experience annoying, and more dangerous.

With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled.

And then there is a notice at nearly every traffic light that one is coming, even when running only on TACC. I find I am spending time clearing nuisance alerts instead focusing 100% of my time on driving the car. And the sudden speed changes, if you miss one of the alerts, is just another version of the phantom breaking problem with the same set of issues for the cars behind. Note that I have this feature disabled under AP. This does not occur if FSD is disabled.

Next we have speed based lane changes. I disabled this under AP and the FSD stack just ignores this as well, and there is no way to tell it not to do so.

So overall, the benefit of having FSD is very minimal, while the negative impact to quality and enjoyment of driving is very real. I definably will not be buying FSD on a future car, unless these problems are fixed.

View attachment 904010
"Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

I'm close to doing it also. Sadly, after a year and a half with FSDb, and all the subsequent updates, I would say that I have wasted $10,000 and have done nothing more than I have PAID TESLA for the "opportunity" to test THEIR failing attempt at a FSD car. My drives end up being more stressful and more difficult with FSDb turned ON because the car simply is unpredictable and even frequently does very dangerous things! The other day it turned in front of an oncoming pickup truck as it turned directly into the front of a car stopped to make a left turn. I had to yank the yoke and slam the accelerator to the floor to avoid a huge accident.

And I know the Tesla KoolAid Crew(s) will post copies of how you "have to be ready to take control immediately", etc., etc, but there are some things that occur that are just so unexpected that if you are not 110% aware you will get into a wreck that will almost assuredly be labeled as "at fault" on the police report.

And the fact that reporting or getting this information to Tesla is all but impossible. They have done away with the "reporting button." The Tesla Bug Report does absolutely nothing related to Engineering or FSD feedback and the email address I got from a Tesla Rep ( [email protected]) is completely useless and receives no replies or feedback, even when sending information about the car doing dangerous things.

The fact that Tesla doesn't "listen" to its' customers leads me to believe that when something inherently unsafe occurs, or an accident occurs, then Tesla will not acknowledge the incident and doesn't really care. Cars or sold and they say "goodbye." I'm frustrated with them and I'm tired of being a FSDb "guinea pig."

 

[mtbwalt]

I use beta when I’m not in a really janky intersection or situation. It works great. When I am approaching a very high complexity situation I just take over temporarily.

I think beta keeps me from accidentally speeding and is generally safe in non-crazy situations. I consider myself the pilot/driver and it my assistant. It has gotten much better over the last 12 months.

It’s not an autonomous driver. It’s just the most advanced assistant in a production car that you can buy right now.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

After years of waiting I finally got my FSD Beta! After 6-weeks I turned it off.

I found the promise of the FSD Beta to be overblown. Yes it is very cool that the car will navigate on city streets to a destination. But the car is far too timid to be usable. It is worse than driving with a student driver. Also, the car’s hesitation causes a lot of problems with other drivers who get confused when they see the car stop or slow, when it should not. But that is not what made me turn it off.

I turned it off because it made the overall driving experience annoying, and more dangerous.

With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled.

And then there is a notice at nearly every traffic light that one is coming, even when running only on TACC. I find I am spending time clearing nuisance alerts instead focusing 100% of my time on driving the car. And the sudden speed changes, if you miss one of the alerts, is just another version of the phantom breaking problem with the same set of issues for the cars behind. Note that I have this feature disabled under AP. This does not occur if FSD is disabled.

Next we have speed based lane changes. I disabled this under AP and the FSD stack just ignores this as well, and there is no way to tell it not to do so.

So overall, the benefit of having FSD is very minimal, while the negative impact to quality and enjoyment of driving is very real. I definably will not be buying FSD on a future car, unless these problems are fixed.

View attachment 904010
"Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail

Several months ago, I rented it. Horrific experience.

 

[Dewg]

I use beta when I’m not in a really janky intersection or situation. It works great. When I am approaching a very high complexity situation I just take over temporarily.

I think beta keeps me from accidentally speeding and is generally safe in non-crazy situations. I consider myself the pilot/driver and it my assistant. It has gotten much better over the last 12 months.

It’s not an autonomous driver. It’s just the most advanced assistant in a production car that you can buy right now.

Agreed. As we've said several times before, there are two camps - people who are expecting L4 and those who understand it's L2. If you expect L4, it's not going to be a good experience for you. If you understand it's L2, it works quite well.

 

[johnnycnote]

Works very well 80% of the time and I've learned to anticipate situations where it might behave in an unexpected manner. If there are vehicles or pedestrians around during those scenarios, I disengage. If no traffic, I'm less likely to disengage to see how well it handles that specific turn or construction area

It's getting better and I'm actually enjoying the experience. But I can see how some might not want to deal with it

 

[Azlaneguy]

Correct. FSDb is not for general public consumption. Also, I’m curious what you mean by a notice before every traffic light. That sounds like public FSD Capability package’s traffic light and stop sign control behavior, not FSDb? But in any case, I’d suggest laying off joining the beta tester program until at least Tesla says (whether or not others agree then) it’s ready for the general public.

Just finished 1100 mile road trip on I10 between Phoenix to Houston running on 2022.44.30.10. I've had FSDb for a while so know the foibles, but this is clearly a step backwards. There were at least a dozen phantom brakings where speed dropped by 20 mph or more, mostly early morning or late afternoon where long shadows were present. Also had several incidents where when I started FSD approsching a highway exit ramp from the right lane, the car would swerve back and forth between the right lane and exit ramp and back like it was trying to figure out where to go. Scary stuff and unsettling to the traffic behind me.
I used the "Report" voice command to report these incidents/bug and got confirmed receipt by Tesla. Hope they get this fixed before FSDb 11.3 is released or there's going to be some nasty incidents.

 

[johnnycnote]

Just finished 1100 mile road trip on I10 between Phoenix to Houston running on 2022.44.30.10. I've had FSDb for a while so know the foibles, but this is clearly a step backwards. There were at least a dozen phantom brakings where speed dropped by 20 mph or more, mostly early morning or late afternoon where long shadows were present. Also had several incidents where when I started FSD approsching a highway exit ramp from the right lane, the car would swerve back and forth between the right lane and exit ramp and back like it was trying to figure out where to go. Scary stuff and unsettling to the traffic behind me.
I used the "Report" voice command to report these incidents/bug and got confirmed receipt by Tesla. Hope they get this fixed before FSDb 11.3 is released or there's going to be some nasty incidents.

There's a report voice command? I did not know that

 

[Daniel in SD]

Agreed. As we've said several times before, there are two camps - people who are expecting L4 and those who understand it's L2. If you expect L4, it's not going to be a good experience for you. If you understand it's L2, it works quite well.

If you expect L4 then you will crash. It’s the people beta testing an L4 system who are the happiest because they know they’re contributing to the development of robotaxis. It’s the people expecting it to be like TACC and Autosteer who are the most disappointed.

 

[galimpic]

I bought a month of FSDb when it became widely available to see for myself what the fuss is all about. After a week or two, I got bored with it and didn't use it anymore - I was probably a little more impressed than most people, but I agree it does things differently than I would every few minutes, gets hesitant in more complicated situations, and does something wrong requiring intervention from time to time. However, close to the end of my month I went to a few drives with other people in the car, used it again and realized the real value of it in the current state: you can use 50% of your usual attention to make sure the drive is going smooth and instead engage more casually in the conversation or listening to the music or whatever, and arrive as relaxed as when you started. So the point is not to be obsessed by self-driving and constantly thinking about it from the perspective of a beta tester, but as a user who doesn't care or check if every second it is going the speed or in the lane you want it to. When I switched myself to that "mode", it became clear it is a nice thing to have, if you have $200 a month to spare. If you don't - the regular AP will do, or I'll just drive it myself to pass time, instead of watching what the computer does.

 

[DWtsn]

Just finished 1100 mile road trip on I10 between Phoenix to Houston running on 2022.44.30.10. I've had FSDb for a while so know the foibles, but this is clearly a step backwards. There were at least a dozen phantom brakings where speed dropped by 20 mph or more, mostly early morning or late afternoon where long shadows were present. Also had several incidents where when I started FSD approsching a highway exit ramp from the right lane, the car would swerve back and forth between the right lane and exit ramp and back like it was trying to figure out where to go. Scary stuff and unsettling to the traffic behind me.
I used the "Report" voice command to report these incidents/bug and got confirmed receipt by Tesla. Hope they get this fixed before FSDb 11.3 is released or there's going to be some nasty incidents.

Speaking to my local Tesla Service Center, the only thing that a "Bug Report" does is make a "marker" in the system and IF I ask them to pull diagnostics and IF I have a date/time group to associate with that Bug Report THEN they can pull the data at that time. But this is not an "actively" monitored thing that "sends" information to anyone.

 

[DWtsn]

Agreed. As we've said several times before, there are two camps - people who are expecting L4 and those who understand it's L2. If you expect L4, it's not going to be a good experience for you. If you understand it's L2, it works quite well.

When you say "works quite well" I'd say you haven't experienced many of the issues I've had. I have seen the car come almost to a complete stop on the highway with nothing in front of, or beside me, almost causing a major accident. It happened so fast that by the time I smashed the accelerator to the floor to avoid getting rear ended, which happened in a split second, it was almost too late. I've had phantom braking so many times and has almost caused a wreck twice. And, yes, I do pay attention all the time and am ready to "intervene" but the car can react so fast, in such an unexpected place/way that I can see where it can simply "out think" even the best driver. In the situation I mentioned above, where the car pulled in front of an oncoming pickup truck and directly into the front of another car, I was sitting there, simply waiting for traffic to clear, when it jetted out with no "advancing forward" warning or any other indications. There is a location on a local 4-lane, divided highway, with a 70mph speed limit that the car routinely comes to a complete stop right after it comes over a slight rise. I've actually let it do this once, when I had a clear roadway, to see if it would actually just STOP on the highway! And it did. I have story after story of me saving the car or my own life, and others, from crashes.

However, if I'm simply on the interstate, low traffic volume, going from Point A to Point B, yes it works quite well. However, last week I was in Colorado and had a rental car that I clicked on its' TACC and it did the same thing with no Phantom Braking, no random stopping, no craziness. So, I wouldn't say I expect L4, but I do expect a modicum of safety and commonsense programming and I'm not seeing enough changes in the updates, or communication from Tesla, to give me that "warm fuzzy."

 

[ewoodrick]

I started with the early vestiges of FSD when I got my car in 2018. Over time, I've seen Tesla improve and add features to the system. I remember one curve that I used as a "test" curve. To begin with, it would just freak out, but over the years, the car learned to slow down enough and start to become proficient at the curve.
Lane changes were another feature that originally didn't go too well, but got improved enough that I pretty much trust the car more than I trust myself.

So many people on here seem to think that BETA means perfect. It's not. But it is much further along than anything else and is getting better and better, although a few releases have a little regression issues.

The biggest problem is that people push buttons and don't read. Look back at the screen that had the warnings on it. Read it. The screen itself should scare most of you. But I dare say that 95% of the FSD sucks people on here have never read the screen.

I do wish that Tesla could gradually introduce FSD to everyone, as they effectively did with me. Once you get to know it, once you get to learn how to work with it, it tends to work pretty great. And "work with it" doesn't mean no driver intervention at all. I can generally have FSD on and make a trip and passengers don't realize that it is on. Sure, I've got my foot on/near the accelerator, and my hands are ready to take over, the few times that it is needed, but it is actually doing a pretty good job, just as long as you don't expect it to drive as well a *you think* that you can drive.