ALL CyberTruck discussion

[mongo]

I ordered Dual with FSD the day after the reveal. (Wow how time flies!) So you're saying if I wait to order per original agreement, then FSD will be locked in at $7K? And to get the tax rebate, the max I can add is $1K in options (like a white interior for me). Stock tires etc...

The Founders would be 5K more for FSD and no tax rebate. I wonder if I can confirm this since there is no price mentioned for the feature in my order eMail. The sticker prices is also an estimate and the rebates are moving targets so no guarantees on some stuff here.

It's a lot cheaper if I wait, but do we know the value of the included options yet? Like the Tires, Accessories, Charging Cable, and Premium?

INCLUDED WITH FOUNDATION SERIES

1. LIMITED-EDITION CONFIGURATION
2. LASER-ETCHED FOUNDATION SERIES BADGE
3. FOUNDATION SERIES CABIN GRAPHIC
4. 20” CYBER WHEELS WITH 35” TIRES
5. WHITE DÉCOR
6. PREMIUM ACCESSORIES
7. POWERSHARE HOME BACKUP
8. POWERSHARE MOBILE CONNECTOR
9. FULL SELF-DRIVING CAPABILITY
10. LIFETIME PREMIUM CONNECTIVITY

The Clean Vehicle Credit acts like down-payment. With the barely under $80k MSRP of a normal AWD, there are no factory installed options you could add and still get the credit (FSD doesn't count).
I really don't expect Tesla to apply the FSD lock in price to the Foundation due to it being part of an option package, not ala-cart. You're paying an extra $20k for the Foundation edition vehicle which then includes the bits and bobs.

Net result is that there is a big difference in cost between Foundation AWD and credit eligible regular. However, if this is one's first Tesla product, then the Beast (not credit eligible) option bundle comes very close to $20k when fully utilizing the $4k install credit and valuing FSD at $7k.
End result (if one needs to rationalize), Foundation AWD is paying a big chunk to get the badging and an earlier delivery. Foundation Beast results in paying a little extra to get badging and an earlier deliver. Beast is still a lot more than AWD, but on a Foundation vs normal basis it's arguably a better value.

We went Beast + range extender. Wrong decision from a financial numbers, range, and time until delivery point of view, but we figured YOLO and TSLA is the reason we can even get it. Plus, the extra cost to get AWD early really grates on my psyche. [Edit: and the extra power when towing]

 

[tivoboy]

The Clean Vehicle Credit acts like down-payment. With the barely under $80k MSRP of a normal AWD, there are no factory installed options you could add and still get the credit (FSD doesn't count).
I really don't expect Tesla to apply the FSD lock in price to the Foundation due to it being part of an option package, not ala-cart. You're paying an extra $20k for the Foundation edition vehicle which then includes the bits and bobs.

Net result is that there is a big difference in cost between Foundation AWD and credit eligible regular. However, if this is one's first Tesla product, then the Beast (not credit eligible) option bundle comes very close to $20k when fully utilizing the $4k install credit and valuing FSD at $7k.
End result (if one needs to rationalize), Foundation AWD is paying a big chunk to get the badging and an earlier delivery. Foundation Beast results in paying a little extra to get badging and an earlier deliver. Beast is still a lot more than AWD, but on a Foundation vs normal basis it's arguably a better value.

We went Beast + range extender. Wrong decision from a financial numbers, range, and time until delivery point of view, but we figured YOLO and TSLA is the reason we can even get it. Plus, the extra cost to get AWD early really grates on my psyche. [Edit: and the extra power when towing]

My understanding of the CVC was that it was an UN OPTIONED price that was the driver for rebate eligibility, and not with additional buyer selected options added?

 

[MP3Mike]

My understanding of the CVC was that it was an UN OPTIONED price that was the driver for rebate eligibility, and not with additional buyer selected options added?

Nope. It is the MSRP of the vehicle as delivered to the dealer. (With software options removed.) Hardware factory installed options are included in that price, paint/wheels/lights/seats/etc.

Topic B — Frequently asked questions about income and price limitations for the New Clean Vehicle Credit | Internal Revenue Service:

 

[mongo]

My understanding of the CVC was that it was an UN OPTIONED price that was the driver for rebate eligibility, and not with additional buyer selected options added?

It's the MSRP with all physically installed options from the factory.

Q4. How will I know what the MSRP is for a vehicle? (added December 29, 2022)
A4. The MSRP will be on the vehicle information label attached to each vehicle on a dealer’s premises. The MSRP for this purpose is the base retail price suggested by the manufacturer, plus the retail price suggested by the manufacturer for each accessory or item of optional equipment physically attached to the vehicle at the time of delivery to the dealer. It does not include destination charges or optional items added by the dealer, or taxes and fees

Q5. Would I still qualify for the new clean vehicle credit if the purchase price, including sales tax, fees, negative equity on a trade, etc., exceeds the MSRP threshold? (added December 29, 2022)
A5. The credit limitations on the price of the vehicle are based on MSRP, not the actual price you paid for the vehicle. See FAQ 3 for how to determine the manufacturer's suggested retail price.

Q6. If the manufacturer/dealer offers incentives on the purchase, and the total purchase price drops below the MSRP limitation, will the vehicle be eligible for the new clean vehicles credit? (added December 29, 2022)
A6. The credit limitations on the price of the vehicle are based on MSRP, not the actual price you paid for the vehicle. See FAQ 3 for how to determine MSRP.

Frequently asked questions about the New, Previously-Owned and Qualified Commercial Clean Vehicles Credit | Internal Revenue Service

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1740926696365150472

 

[CyberShy]

The charging curve SUCKs on non-V4 chargers (this looks like V3 since it was 250kw for a few minutes). Forget that this sugarhead charged to 100%. Just to getting to 80% was a miserable 40 minutes.

 

[jebinc]

The charging curve SUCKs on non-V4 chargers (this looks like V3 since it was 250kw for a few minutes). Forget that this sugarhead charged to 100%. Just to getting to 80% was a miserable 40 minutes.

View attachment 1004361

Telsa CT apologists abound...

4680 have a terrible charging curve, as compared to 2170s and 18650s (the best). I have a Tesla with both battery types, a Plaid and an Austin 4680 MY less than six months old.

 

[jerry33]

The charging curve SUCKs on non-V4 chargers (this looks like V3 since it was 250kw for a few minutes). Forget that this sugarhead charged to 100%. Just to getting to 80% was a miserable 40 minutes.

View attachment 1004361

On a trip there is almost never a need to charge to 100%. Just charge so that there is enough to get to the next charging stop plus a bit extra to cover the unforeseen. Also, in a new model Tesla, they always start very conservatively and up the speeds as they get more information from real world use. As far as I know, this has happened with every new Tesla model.

 

[CyberShy]

I said to "Forget that this sugarhead charged to 100%. Just to getting to 80% was a miserable 40 minutes."

 

[mongo]

Forget that this sugarhead charged to 100%. Just to getting to 80% was a miserable 40 minutes.

Geeze. They were doing this specifically to get the full charge curve, no need nor reason for name calling.

Pinned by Our Cyber Life

@OurCyberLife

6 hours ago (edited)

Important notes about this test!

1. I don't normally charge above 80%, or really even that high when we are roadtripping, I only charged up this much because of so many of you asking for it.

2. I preconditioned for 20 minutes while driving to this supercharger.

3. It was rather crowded at the supercharger, so it is possible I was not getting the full speeds possible.

4. This was at a v3 supercharger with a max speed of 250kW.

5. This is a brand new vehicle and battery, so it is possible that Tesla may be limitingnit as they gather data. I have no insider information, so I can neither confirm nor deny this, and I wouldn't be able to even if I had insider information.

6. Spreadsheet with data for the graphs. Was captured from this video data manually at each minute mark of the charging. Cybertruck Charging Curves

I'll add to this list as comments are made.

 

[mongo]

The charging curve SUCKs on non-V4 chargers (this looks like V3 since it was 250kw for a few minutes).

V3 400V doesn't explain the low rate unless there is a major difference in voltage drop for the cabling on the two pack halves.

 

[CyberShy]

V3 400V doesn't explain the low rate unless there is a major difference in voltage drop for the cabling on the two pack halves.

KW is KW. I was very disappointed to see 250kW drop off starting at 20%. Don't know what the 4680 Model Ys do and I don't really care.

 

[mongo]

KW is KW. I was very disappointed to see 250kW drop off starting at 20%. Don't know what the 4680 Model Ys do and I don't really care.

You wrote:

The charging curve SUCKs on non-V4 chargers

While your statement is true since this is a non-V4 charger, we have no data to indicate V4 would be faster. My point was that I would not expect V4 to improve the charge rate unless it was an equipment issue, in which case a different V3 would also work better.

 

[CyberShy]

You’re right. Because kw is kw.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

was very disappointed to see 250kW drop off starting at 20%. Don't know what the 4680 Model Ys do and I don't really care.

They’re about the same, directly scaled down (123kWh vs. 67.5kWh), with a 250kW cap for CT of course.

The noise on here on the high side probably partially captures accessories & pack heating so probably not good to take best case numbers from the noise.

We’ll see if there is anything else they decide to push out of v2 4680 later on. But I would not expect too much I guess? Though I really don’t know anything about the enhancements other than a bit of capacity increase, which would not directly help.

Of course it would have to be WAY better to be even close to good. Since at this point Model 3 is setting the bar there - the CT needs to do better, roughly, in miles per hour added, ideally. And it is nowhere close. (Needs in excess of 350kW all the way up to over 30% to get close to Model 3 (just ballpark; I haven’t worked out the exact numbers).)

Certainly can’t see any reason why v4 would help much, with what we see so far. That could change; guess we’ll see.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Certainly can’t see any reason why v4 would help much, with what we see so far. That could change; guess we’ll see.

It will help a lot if/when v4 finally goes 800V. A Tesla engineer on one of those CT YouTubes gave 10-80 time on 800V. I don't recall the exact number, but it was in line with Model 3 on v3. Tesla is in no hurry to deploy 800V chargers, though. Hopefully someone will charge a CT at an EA or EVGo charger and report back.

 

[tivoboy]

I'm surprised that nobody has taken a cybertruck to a V4 supercharger yet, just for the test and the clicks.

 

[MP3Mike]

I'm surprised that nobody has taken a cybertruck to a V4 supercharger yet, just for the test and the clicks.

Because there isn't actually a V4 Supercharger yet? (Just V3 Superchargers with V4 posts.) So, the results would likely be the same.

But even at that it doesn't appear that any of the current owners care about clicks. (There hasn't been a lot of Cybertruck content published.) It took a month to get someone to record a charging session and release it...

 

[tivoboy]

Because there isn't actually a V4 Supercharger yet? (Just V3 Superchargers with V4 posts.) So, the results would likely be the same.

But even at that it doesn't appear that any of the current owners care about clicks. (There hasn't been a lot of Cybertruck content published.) It took a month to get someone to record a charging session and release it...

So, THIS isn't actually a V4 station? Wouldn't produce 350kw at the port?

Supercharger - Wilsonville, OR (LIVE 17 Nov 2023, 8 V4 stalls)

https://teslanorth.com/2023/08/11/the-weekly-supercharger-a-fresh-restart-week-1 8315 SW Jack Burns Blvd, Wilsonville, OR 97070

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[MP3Mike]

So, THIS isn't actually a V4 station? Wouldn't produce 350kw at the port?

Supercharger - Wilsonville, OR (LIVE 17 Nov 2023, 8 V4 stalls)

https://teslanorth.com/2023/08/11/the-weekly-supercharger-a-fresh-restart-week-1 8315 SW Jack Burns Blvd, Wilsonville, OR 97070

teslamotorsclub.com

Nope. The actual charging cabinets are still V3, limited to ~500v and ~250kW per port. (The V4 posts at that site are rated for 1000v, but we still haven't seen a single charging cabinet installed anywhere in the world that can provide the 1000v to the V4 posts.)